[SullyE]

Hi All.

I tried searching (all over actually)... and cannot find the technical data for the Toyota Type-IV transmission fluid, that everyone talks about using in the Volvo trannies.

I'm looking for a .PDF (or whatever) that I can print out and keep with all my records. I'm most interested in knowing the vicocity numbers, flash point, etc... like what's found on other brand's technical data sheets.

I found the data for Castrol, Pennzoil and the Mobil 3309... but no Toyota, does anyone know where this can be found??? I would think it's out there somewhere in the wonderful WWW that we have right in front of us. I'm spent searching for it...

Thanks to any and all for your help.

Gregg

 

[ss60]

I would think it's out there somewhere in the wonderful WWW that we have right in front of us. I'm spent searching for it...

Thanks to any and all for your help.

Gregg

Why don't you just call the manufacturer? Fast, easy, accurate.

 

[garbergtsi]

you could use the internet too if you no longer have a telephone....
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_ATF_3309.aspx

the fluid is the same if you buy it from Volvo, Toyota or Mobil.

 

[pengc99]

From what I understand, the Volvo ATF, Toyota Type IV, and Mobil 3309 are all the same exact fluid. If you're really curious, get a sample of each and send it to BlackStone to compare their chemical composition and see if it really is the same.

 

[prienzo]

From what I understand, the Volvo ATF, Toyota Type IV, and Mobil 3306 are all the same exact fluid. If you're really curious, get a sample of each and send it to BlackStone to compare their chemical composition and see if it really is the same.

I believe it is Mobil 3309, not 3306

 

[SullyE]

Thanks guys.

I know all about the big 'debate' over this fluid (Toyota Type-IV) vs. Mobil 3309 vs. the OEM Volvo. What I still want to see though (for my own mental well-being), are the actual numbers listed somewhere... that show all of the technical data as stated, to "prove" that this is the same fluid. I can find all other Mfgs. data, but not Toyotas. I wonder why...

See... I'm, unfortunately, in the middle of a transmission issue with my '06 XC90 (see other post about a 2-3 shudder in shifting), and I just want to prove to myself (nothing against anyone else out there) that all (3) of these fluids are in fact the same. I know some have said they are, they're all made by Mobil, da...da...da.

I had the valve body replaced in the vehicle about 1.5 weeks ago, and had (12) quarts of Toyota Type-IV fluid flushed/filled... and now the vehicle is worse (yes, worse) than it was before that was done. I'm now getting the same shift quality issues (rough shifts from 2-3, 3-4 and some 'iffy' downshifts)... along with a severe/very disturbing "clunk" when garage shifting from D-R, or vice versa. This "clunk" was definitely not there prior. The only things that changed were the valve body and the fluid.

So, I went and shelled out the cash for (10) Liters of the Volvo OEM fluid, but would really like to see some numbers. Even if the numbers for viscosity, etc. are the same, couldn't there be additional additives/friction modifiers, etc. that are in the Volvo fluid and not in the others??? I hate to say it, but I think there could be.

I don't know what else to do besides to tell my local Volvo dealer to go ahead and do a whole nother valve body for $3,000.00. Any other suggestions? I highly doubt a got a 'bad' reman valve body...

I'll try the OEM fluid first... and if it does it, great. If not, then I'm a [email protected] for spending the money to do so.

I really didn't mean to open up the proverbial 'can of worms' here... which is why I asked my original quesiton the way I did. If anyone knows of a link to a .PDF or whatever... please post.

Thanks,

Gregg

P.S. When I purchased the case of Toyota Type-IV fluid a few weeks back... I cannot recall seeing anything on the front or back of the container saying that it was JWS3009 compliant either.

 

[ss60]

I am assuming you have the 2.5T with Ansin Warner transmission that takes the 3309, because the T6 with the GM transmission takes Dexron fluid.

Did they reset the adaptation (tcm software) after the fluid replacement?

 

[SullyE]

Sorry I left this out... I have the TF80-SC (Aisin Warner) in my 06' XC90. I checked the serial number (for grins), and I have a 05D, so I didn't have the 'upgraded' valve body to begin with.

Yes, the local Volvo dealer reset the TCM adaptives... but not for a few days after the Indy shop did the valve body replacement. That didn't seem to do anything... unless they didn't actually do it(?).

I got a reman valve body installed (part, labor and fluid) for just over $1,000.00. Comparing that to the $3,415.00 I was quoted from the dealer... seemed like a 'no-brainer'. Had I known I was going to have this many issues afterwards, I may have considered just having the dealer do it... if they could've given me a discount on the parts of something.

I'm so frustrated beyond belief... it's not even funny anymore.

I'll post updates to the other thread, as they come about. I don't want to post it here, as I was asking about a different topic.

Thanks.

Gregg

P.S. Add to that, an intermittent 'Power System Service Needed' message and 'battery' indicator lit... which wasn't an issue before the valve body. The vehicles' going back in tomorrow, hopefully. The guy that did the work (the owner) was on vacation for the past week.

 

[garbergtsi]

They are all the same. If you dont believe us, get samples and send them into a lab...
Look: Toyota, Volvo, GM, Etc do NOT make fluids....or transmissions. They buy them from suppliers who spec what fluid should be in there. Volvo has nothing to do with this.....
I have seen bad reman valve bodys cause this...along with OE valve body's...it all depends on how they rebuilt it! Where did it come from?

I would defenitly erase the adaptives like mentioned prior and see if anything changes....

Thanks guys.

I know all about the big 'debate' over this fluid (Toyota Type-IV) vs. Mobil 3309 vs. the OEM Volvo. What I still want to see though (for my own mental well-being), are the actual numbers listed somewhere... that show all of the technical data as stated, to "prove" that this is the same fluid. I can find all other Mfgs. data, but not Toyotas. I wonder why...

See... I'm, unfortunately, in the middle of a transmission issue with my '06 XC90 (see other post about a 2-3 shudder in shifting), and I just want to prove to myself (nothing against anyone else out there) that all (3) of these fluids are in fact the same. I know some have said they are, they're all made by Mobil, da...da...da.

I had the valve body replaced in the vehicle about 1.5 weeks ago, and had (12) quarts of Toyota Type-IV fluid flushed/filled... and now the vehicle is worse (yes, worse) than it was before that was done. I'm now getting the same shift quality issues (rough shifts from 2-3, 3-4 and some 'iffy' downshifts)... along with a severe/very disturbing "clunk" when garage shifting from D-R, or vice versa. This "clunk" was definitely not there prior. The only things that changed were the valve body and the fluid.

So, I went and shelled out the cash for (10) Liters of the Volvo OEM fluid, but would really like to see some numbers. Even if the numbers for viscosity, etc. are the same, couldn't there be additional additives/friction modifiers, etc. that are in the Volvo fluid and not in the others??? I hate to say it, but I think there could be.

I don't know what else to do besides to tell my local Volvo dealer to go ahead and do a whole nother valve body for $3,000.00. Any other suggestions? I highly doubt a got a 'bad' reman valve body...

I'll try the OEM fluid first... and if it does it, great. If not, then I'm a [email protected] for spending the money to do so.

I really didn't mean to open up the proverbial 'can of worms' here... which is why I asked my original quesiton the way I did. If anyone knows of a link to a .PDF or whatever... please post.

Thanks,

Gregg

P.S. When I purchased the case of Toyota Type-IV fluid a few weeks back... I cannot recall seeing anything on the front or back of the container saying that it was JWS3009 compliant either.

 

[SullyE]

The adaptives were already erased... no change.

The reman valve body came from Reamman in Lansing, MI... I wasn't sure if I could post that or not.

Again, I didn't mean to cause a stir about this... as I know it's been covered 1,000 times over. I'm just frustrated, that's all. I just find it hard to believe that because someone called someone and they 'verified' that the fluids were the same... that they actually are, without seeing some numbers from a scientific study/analysis.

Is there any documentation out there somewhere for us transmission newbies to review? I'm just asking.

And why isn't the JWS3309 specified on the bottles for the Type-IV? Again, just asking.

Vehicles' going back in Wednesday... we'll see what happens.

Take care,

Gregg

 

[repacs0103]

Aside from your request for specs on Toyota T-IV fluid, there is no way that any fluid caused the issues you're talking about in a few days time. More likely is that the flush dislodged some debris and it is now in the new valve body or the converter. A bad reman valve body is also by no means out of the question. I wouldn't waste the money on putting the Volvo fluid in unless it's after you have the valve body pulled again and inspected.

 

[SullyE]

Thanks for the help guys... I'm considering a few options, as of now.

Side note 1: I ordered the valve body from Reamman.com, since they were really the only place that had this one in stock. I guess it's hard to find, which isn't a good thing!

Side note 2: I also had (2) other issues pop-up after the valve body was done. One was, the SRS Airbag indicator came on... along with an intermittent 'Power Sys Service Needed' message. These are both new, and did not occur prior. WTF???

I'll let you all know what I find out and post back... hopefully, by late Wednesday. I'd appreciate any other advice folks would have. I'd really hate to have to go back to the stealership... and get shafted by them.

Thanks and take care,

Gregg

 

[pengc99]

SRS Airbag light comes on if certain computer components were disconnected and the car was turned on with it disconnected. Sorry, you're out of luck here you have to pay Volvo to read and turn off the code.

The Power System Urgent mesesage is likely from the alternator. Lots of other threads about this. Common failure point on the V8 models.

 

[garbergtsi]

http://www.sonnax.com/publications/transmission/titles/aisin-aw-linear-solenoids

http://www.sonnax.com/publications/transmission/titles/aw-6-speeds-valve-body-diagnosis

sorry, but fluid is not your culprit here....

that sucks to hear too, because i have heard good things about reamman VB's....

 

[garbergtsi]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/44175667/TF-80-af-40-6-speed

 

[SullyE]

"sorry, but fluid is not your culprit here...."

Thanks for the input garbergtsi… but unfortunately, you are incorrect. Read on…

I hope the rest of y’all are sittin’ down for this one… cause it’s not going to be pretty. Here we go…

I got my ’06 XC90 AWD V8 back 3 days ago, after doing a 2nd flush/fill (removing the Toyota Type-IV and putting in OEM Volvo fluid)… and guess what??? Yep, you guessed right… it WAS THE FLUID!!! No more shifting issues, no 2-3 upshift shudder, no harsh downshifts, no ‘clunks’ in garage shifts from D-R/R-D… nothing. Just nice, silky smooth shifts. :thumbup: Nothing else was done to the vehicle, besides an alternator replacement for a separate issue (‘Power System Service’message).

With that said, let me be the first to say… that the OEM Volvo transmission fluid (P/N 1161 540 or 640) is NOT (I repeat, NOT) the same as the Toyota Type-IV or Mobil 3309… with respect to the TF80-SC transmission, that is. Period. I’m not saying there’s a difference between the Mobil and Toyota (as they’re both listed on Mobil’s website below, which we’ve all looked at a thousand times).

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_ATF_3309.aspx

I am, however, saying that these (2) fluids (which are JWS 3309 compliant) are NOT the same as the Volvo fluid… which is NOT 3309 compliant.

If you take another look at the link above, and look straight across from ‘Volvo’ you will see under ‘Part No. or Specification’ that ONLY ‘5-Speed Automatics’ (such as the AW55-50/51N) are listed. Unless I am blind, I don’t see anything referencing any ‘6-Speed Automatics’ (such as the TF80-SC). Does anyone else see it???

Also, if one were to take a glance at the technical specifications for the Mobil 3309/Toyota Type-IV versus the OEM Volvo fluid… you’d see completely different numbers. See below:
Mobil 3309/Toyota Type-IV (taken from Mobil’s website above)

Viscosity
cSt @ 100ºC 7.2
cSt @ 40ºC 35
cP @ -40ºC (-40ºF) 14,000
Flash Point, ºC ›185
Pour Point, ºC ‹ -45
Density 0.8540


Volvo OEM ATF (taken directly out of a parts catalog at my local Volvo dealership)
Viscosity
cSt @ 100ºC 7.5
cSt @ 40ºC 40
Base Mineral Oil
Flash Point, ºC ›185
Pour Point, ºC -54
Density 0.870

I do not know how anyone can say that these two types of fluids are the same. That simply blows my mind. I don’t care “who called so-and-so at Mobil, etc.”… look at the numbers, the viscosities are clearly different. Not to mention, these fluids may have different additives and friction modifiers, etc. in them as well.

That leads me to believe that there appears to be some confusion between which fluid is applicable to which model transmission. Speaking directly to my Aisin Warner 6-Speed TF80-SC, this transmission does NOT accept any JWS 3309 compliant fluid. It takes a specialized AW-1 fluid, that not only Volvo makes… but also Saab and GM offer as well.

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartDetail.aspx?id=93165147

I couldn’t find any information relating my transmission (again, the TF80-SC) to anything noting the JWS 3309 specification, nor is that spec. listed on the fluid containers.

Luckily, I only drove my XC90 about 100 miles with the incorrect (Toyota Type-IV) fluid in it… so hopefully no further harm was done.

Final thought… I HIGHLY recommended to anyone doing a transmission flush/fill (or any transmission service requiring a flush/fill, such as a valve body replacement) on a vehicle with a TF80-SC, to strongly consider using a AW-1 approved fluid. I know it is pricey, but it’s cheaper than putting the wrong fluid in and causing other issues and/or possibly ruining your transmission.

Take this for what it’s worth… and keep arguing about the fluid all you want. All I know is that my TF80-SC is very happy with the OEM Volvo fluid in it, and therefore, so am I!

Have a nice day.

P.S. pengc99, my alternator was in fact the culprit of my ‘Power System Service’ message. I did find a few threads that described the same exact problem, and had it replaced with a new Bosch unit. Thanks.

 

[garbergtsi]

 

[garbergtsi]

if what you say is true....volvo service would be messing up these transmissions left and right....

not gonna fight it...just sayin', there is more to the story. could be simple as some slight contamination in the previous fluid....or maybe the adaption was reset after doing the fluid the 2nd time?

 

[SullyE]

Wow... then it all remains a mystery then! I don't know what else to say, except everything transmission-wise seems completely different from what it was like when the Toyota Type-IV fluid was in there. Crazy. I don't know.

garbergtsi... where did you find all the info you posted in your previous (2) posts. If it's from OEM Volvo manuals, it would be GREAT ammo to go into the dealer with and say 'WTF'??? The yellow screenshot looks like it's from a TSB or something... I recognize the font type and yellow background.

I honestly don't know what else to say... except maybe a full 2nd flush got some other debris out or something. I've read of some folks doing 2 full flush/fills and having it 'fix' their issues.

Well, all is good now... so my worries have dissipated. Confidence in Volvos has been restored.

Thanks,

Gregg

 

[prienzo]

There have been a lot of people using Toyota IV and Mobil 3309 in these transmissions, including myself.

If I had to guess, the adaptation was reset on this flush and your problem will return...