[Th3iPodM0N]

Long time lurker, former R owner. I used to have a 2004 V70 R in Titanium Grey with Sand interior. Sadly, an automatic but it still felt pretty fast once you were rolling. Sold my V70 R a couple of years ago in order to get my dream car (Audi B5 S4 Avant), which was a huge nightmare from beginning to end. Never-ending problems and repairs, and killed the love I had for that platform. And ever since I've regretted selling my V70 R and miss it all the time..

I'm torn between picking up something that can be a bit of a project, or just wait until something that's more turn-key pops up for sale and I can pick that up and just drive every so often. This wouldn't be my main car since I have something else to get to work in and this would be more something fun to work on when I have spare time and tinker with and eventually be my "fun" car or whatever. I have a terrible habit of wanting to get my hands dirty and tinker with stuff.

I honestly don't care too much if it's a V70 R or S60 R, or what color it is, just more-so if it's even a good idea or maybe I should look elsewhere for something else. That 5 cylinder noise gets under your skin and doesn't let go.

Anyhow, any recommendations would be welcome. Or maybe some other Volvo models in the range that would be fun to have. And of course, any thoughts on the never-ending transmission debate.

 

[johnauten]

I think most would agree to get an R with a known service history and not one that has fallen into the clutches of someone who could/would not pay to maintain it. The price of entry will be low, but you will pay for the deferred maintenance/repairs. Another point of consideration, as these cars age, certain parts have become scarce or discontinued. I have seen that largely in the realm of cosmetic parts (interior pieces, exterior trim etc.). I haven't seen the same from a mechanical point of view. I will let others chime in if they have seen something different when it comes to mechanical repairs.

 

[StubbornStrength]

From what I learned.
The White blocks that come in the R models of this generation have thin(ner) walls and perhaps lightened materials. It makes sense from a stock power stand point. Less rotating mass.

What was preached to me sometime ago is that an S60 2.5L T5 have thicker and stronger blocks. From there adding the head of an R series would make a great combination. I'm going to take a wild guess that the V70 and V70R follow the same path.

It comes down to the R design trim package, interior and ride height. Ride height can remedy itself if your updating suspension. Bumpers and covers cost a fortune with freight shipping & the interior is victim to freight cost.

The 2.5 T5 will handle more boost and output before having to get down in dirty from my knowledge. Just with the 2.5 T5 you won't have the neat executive/sport trim and lowered height.

 

[bensoda]

2005+ T5s are 2.4L, not 2.5L, which is how they are able to achieve thicker cylinder walls. 81mm bore vs 83mm bore. The head from a 2005+ T5 or an R are the exact same.

 

[Th3iPodM0N]

I think most would agree to get an R with a known service history and not one that has fallen into the clutches of someone who could/would not pay to maintain it. The price of entry will be low, but you will pay for the deferred maintenance/repairs. Another point of consideration, as these cars age, certain parts have become scarce or discontinued. I have seen that largely in the realm of cosmetic parts (interior pieces, exterior trim etc.). I haven't seen the same from a mechanical point of view. I will let others chime in if they have seen something different when it comes to mechanical repairs.

Fair points. I could buy a decent example for 7K, but then a ratty example for 2K....well I'd end up paying the difference in some form or another. I guess I'm slightly worried about not being able to get one before prices skyrocket and then they find their way outside of what I can afford. But it seems so far these cars have managed to stay under the radar.

From what I learned.
The White blocks that come in the R models of this generation have thin(ner) walls and perhaps lightened materials. It makes sense from a stock power stand point. Less rotating mass.

What was preached to me sometime ago is that an S60 2.5L T5 have thicker and stronger blocks. From there adding the head of an R series would make a great combination. I'm going to take a wild guess that the V70 and V70R follow the same path.

It comes down to the R design trim package, interior and ride height. Ride height can remedy itself if your updating suspension. Bumpers and covers cost a fortune with freight shipping & the interior is victim to freight cost.

The 2.5 T5 will handle more boost and output before having to get down in dirty from my knowledge. Just with the 2.5 T5 you won't have the neat executive/sport trim and lowered height.

I think you're right, the 2.5's on the R have thinner cylinder walls. That's what happened to a friend of mine's S60 and it ended up having a cracked block. It didn't last long with him before he sold it though I think it was like that when he got it.
I've heard of people even taking the 2.4 or 2.3 blocks and swapping on the R heads. I guess those engines would be "easier" to find but if I'm not someone who's chasing big horsepower would that be something even worth pursuing?

2005+ T5s are 2.4L, not 2.5L, which is how they are able to achieve thicker cylinder walls. 81mm bore vs 83mm bore. The head from a 2005+ T5 or an R are the exact same.

Hmmm.

So is there anything about the R over the T5 that would make one "better" over the other or just personal preference? I personally liked having the AWD as weird of a system as it is, and I think the R's have aged rather nicely in looks while I'm not a huge fan of the T5's. But then again, if it's less of a headache than the R I may consider it.

 

[ZZZZZZZ]

The R has a few other bits that many think aren't worth the headache, and some have proven that to be true. I wanted it for the suspension and awd. T5s are often even rarer than an R but they're also under the radar more so because they're harder to spot/identify.
The T5 can whoop or at the VERY least least scare an R if set up correctly and tuned. The AWD, as weird as you say it is tends to create more headache than many can stomach. It adds weight, complicates working on some things due to the added access points being blocked and ends up often leaking or worse, failing.
The 4C system works pretty well if you can keep the struts/shocks new and replaced on a regular basis but the parts are often scarce and very costly to the point of many R owners switching them out for coilover setups. Then again, you'll end up with messages on the dash because that system isn't 'working' the way the car thinks it should. This can be bypassed with a relatively simple circuit spliced in to complete the system's constant communication with struts/shocks that are not really there.
I finally got my VR to a happy place ibn my ownership but there is at least one major repair lurking: the steering rack, and that ain't a cheap thing to embark on.. parts OR labor.

 

[Th3iPodM0N]

The R has a few other bits that many think aren't worth the headache, and some have proven that to be true. I wanted it for the suspension and awd. T5s are often even rarer than an R but they're also under the radar more so because they're harder to spot/identify.
The T5 can whoop or at the VERY least least scare an R if set up correctly and tuned. The AWD, as weird as you say it is tends to create more headache than many can stomach. It adds weight, complicates working on some things due to the added access points being blocked and ends up often leaking or worse, failing.
The 4C system works pretty well if you can keep the struts/shocks new and replaced on a regular basis but the parts are often scarce and very costly to the point of many R owners switching them out for coilover setups. Then again, you'll end up with messages on the dash because that system isn't 'working' the way the car thinks it should. This can be bypassed with a relatively simple circuit spliced in to complete the system's constant communication with struts/shocks that are not really there.
I finally got my VR to a happy place ibn my ownership but there is at least one major repair lurking: the steering rack, and that ain't a cheap thing to embark on.. parts OR labor.

I've heard nightmare stories of the angle drive coupler gear tearing splines out or something like that. Basically free spinning on the shaft. I personally never had that issue, but then again I was never entirely certain if my AWD was working or not when I had the car. I was always dreading the Haldex service but I ended up selling the car before I had to do that.

On my first one I did have to have the rear suspension replaced since it was leaking somewhat. There was a noticeable hop from the rear of the car going over bumps on the highway. For what I paid to replace them (I had to have the dealer do it at the time because I was crunched for time) I could've afforded a full coilover setup and had a good chunk leftover. That's probably one of the things I would change if I got an R. While I do really like the 4C system, it's constant clunking on the Colorado roads started to get to me after a while. It felt like the car was crashing over every single bump no matter how small. I feel with a good set of shocks and springs the car would be infinitely better to ride in.

Is the tuning potential on a T5 greater than an R? Or about the same? I'm almost certainly not going to go for "big power" but a small boost in speed never hurts.

I imagine for the steering rack you have to remove the subframe? Strangely that's a repair that I hadn't heard of being an issue before this time.

 

[ZZZZZZZ]

A good working 4C system is the sh*t. Glass and absorbingly comfortable on bumps/rough roads; tighter and stiff on flat pavement at the push of a dang button (& changes the throttle & shifting points in the GT to be tighter). I'm sure awesome coil overs are good too, but I've yet to drive the comparable car (though a friend did just that to his 06 Sonic VR and I'd love to try driving it). Before I replaced mine and redid the entire front end elements, it crashed on things just looking at them. LOL

No idea about tuning an R/T5 - I'm already worried enough about perpetually seeking stage zero on 100% stock... so entertaining mods would blow my mind. Hahahaha.

Yup - rack has been leaking and I keep fluid at the ready. Luckily I have not had it go yet, and the leak seems to have slowed some during the pandemic. Dropping the subframe and all that is what my wallet will weep over, so I'm doing little prayers all the time to hold off as long as possible.

I've heard nightmare stories of the angle drive coupler gear tearing splines out or something like that. Basically free spinning on the shaft. I personally never had that issue, but then again I was never entirely certain if my AWD was working or not when I had the car. I was always dreading the Haldex service but I ended up selling the car before I had to do that.

On my first one I did have to have the rear suspension replaced since it was leaking somewhat. There was a noticeable hop from the rear of the car going over bumps on the highway. For what I paid to replace them (I had to have the dealer do it at the time because I was crunched for time) I could've afforded a full coilover setup and had a good chunk leftover. That's probably one of the things I would change if I got an R. While I do really like the 4C system, it's constant clunking on the Colorado roads started to get to me after a while. It felt like the car was crashing over every single bump no matter how small. I feel with a good set of shocks and springs the car would be infinitely better to ride in.

Is the tuning potential on a T5 greater than an R? Or about the same? I'm almost certainly not going to go for "big power" but a small boost in speed never hurts.

I imagine for the steering rack you have to remove the subframe? Strangely that's a repair that I hadn't heard of being an issue before this time.

 

[StubbornStrength]

Is the tuning potential on a T5 greater than an R? Or about the same? I'm almost certainly not going to go for "big power" but a small boost in speed never hurts.

I imagine for the steering rack you have to remove the subframe? Strangely that's a repair that I hadn't heard of being an issue before this time.

From my learning as a student experience. The 2.5 block is going to offer you a higher output displacement due to having thicker walls for durability. The cylinder head on the R has more flow. Now where that flow is I wish I could say that for you.

If your going to fat wallet a white block then both will have to be machined for sleeves. Darton sleeves are one of two company that still produces the sleeves. From there it's forged pistons, rods and you might as well balance the crankshaft while your at it. Maybe even service or replace the oil pump too. It's a move for fat wallets. This completely leaves out everything else like all aluminum radiators, low pressure drop intercoolers, upgraded MAF, injectors, upgrading the turbo, full 3"+ exhaust to the tailpipe and more.

If you follow Reddevil I think he was able to get close to 500AWD HP with a high amount of torque to match. But that requires experience, back and forth conversations with Hilton tuning in his case and of course a very experienced dyno track mapper who knows volvos front and back.

 

[StubbornStrength]

One note that I wish I knew. The position of the White blocks is inline to the front tires. This creates somewhat of an integral design flaw where the turning radius is significantly effected. It's not that you can't get it to whip around a highway roundabout or back roads. But the turning circle isn't ideal. When choosing an older Volvo with a Red block like a 240. The engines are mounted in parallel with the chassis of the car. Remedying the turning circle issue. Many actually say that 240's have pretty stout turning circles. Another cool thing with going Red block is since they are cast iron they'll handle far more power before any integral work has to be done to the engine itself. Two issues are. Most were non turbos so you'll have to prep it for a turbo system. Everybody bought automatics making the manual harder to find.

That's all I got. I gotta hit the books if I even want to think about spewing more $0.02

 

[Th3iPodM0N]

One note that I wish I knew. The position of the White blocks is inline to the front tires. This creates somewhat of an integral design flaw where the turning radius is significantly effected. It's not that you can't get it to whip around a highway roundabout or back roads. But the turning circle isn't ideal. When choosing an older Volvo with a Red block like a 240. The engines are mounted in parallel with the chassis of the car. Remedying the turning circle issue. Many actually say that 240's have pretty stout turning circles. Another cool thing with going Red block is since they are cast iron they'll handle far more power before any integral work has to be done to the engine itself. Two issues are. Most were non turbos so you'll have to prep it for a turbo system. Everybody bought automatics making the manual harder to find.

That's all I got. I gotta hit the books if I even want to think about spewing more $0.02

Hehehe. Yeep. The tires always rubbed in the inner wheel well in my car. I think the turning circle on the R was almost as bad as one of those huge pickups. But I always saw it as super...hmm..."charming" I guess. One of the quirks of the car heheh. My Ma hated it, thought there was something wrong with the car hehe.

I'm not planning to push huge power. Maybe stage one at the most? Of course, I could always change my mind in the future but that's ideally where I'd like to stay. I'm not huge into modifying unless it's for something more reliable or a no-brainer.

And come to think of it...I haven't seen a 240 driving around on the road for a good while. Maybe almost a year?

 

[Th3iPodM0N]

A good working 4C system is the sh*t. Glass and absorbingly comfortable on bumps/rough roads; tighter and stiff on flat pavement at the push of a dang button (& changes the throttle & shifting points in the GT to be tighter). I'm sure awesome coil overs are good too, but I've yet to drive the comparable car (though a friend did just that to his 06 Sonic VR and I'd love to try driving it). Before I replaced mine and redid the entire front end elements, it crashed on things just looking at them. LOL

No idea about tuning an R/T5 - I'm already worried enough about perpetually seeking stage zero on 100% stock... so entertaining mods would blow my mind. Hahahaha.

Yup - rack has been leaking and I keep fluid at the ready. Luckily I have not had it go yet, and the leak seems to have slowed some during the pandemic. Dropping the subframe and all that is what my wallet will weep over, so I'm doing little prayers all the time to hold off as long as possible.

Gotta agree. Working 4C was awesome. I guess the fronts could've used replacing on my car.

Agreeeed. Gotta reach stage 0 before going further. Funny thing, I'd never heard of stage 0 before lurking around on these forums. Guess Audi guys just throw caution to the wind and throw big turbos around and hope it doesn't explode hehe.

Also, gotta say your Red VR is beautiful! I've gotta take some time to read through that thread.

 

[ZZZZZZZ]

Thanks!

Gotta agree. Working 4C was awesome. I guess the fronts could've used replacing on my car.

Agreeeed. Gotta reach stage 0 before going further. Funny thing, I'd never heard of stage 0 before lurking around on these forums. Guess Audi guys just throw caution to the wind and throw big turbos around and hope it doesn't explode hehe.

Also, gotta say your Red VR is beautiful! I've gotta take some time to read through that thread.