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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
TNN 60-08, oil change, heat shield bracket, brake doohickey...

I have no idea what this is (vibration dampener?), but if you remember, we discovered one was broken when I had springs installed. <p><IMG SRC="http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/960/1004852medium6py.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Fixed now... all shiny and new...<br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/4341/1005079small5za.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/9148/1005080small6qt.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Speaking of brakes, I discovered where the front brake squeal fix goes.<br><IMG SRC="http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1431/1000909medium1pi.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/7615/1005127small3ta.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>If you ever disconnect the battery and close the trunk, you will need to remember this is there...<br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/1662/1005093small1ju.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Lunchtime... and when one fake M badge isn't enough, just add another. Good for at least 3 hp. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4858/1005103small8tc.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Since I needed an alignment after springs and rear sway bar installed, I decided to get TNN 60-08, it comes with an alignment (saved me $100). <p>Here is the bushing<br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/9452/1005114small4zu.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>And here is where it goes. Unfortunately, this requires a very special tool to remove that my mechanic didn't have on hand, removed the exhaust, still didn't help. Took him an hour to find something that was exact size so he could bang it out.<br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2981/1005113small6ol.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Learned how to watch someone else change my oil...<br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/5590/1005118small7nc.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>Filter is very easy to get to...<br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/3166/1005120small4sj.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>Since I brought my own Mobil1 0-40W oil, trying to grasp how I still owe them E48 ($57). This is my 18K oil change that isn't paid for, changing every 5K since 2500 miles. Interesting, it took 6.25 liters... didn't think engine held that much. <p>For anyone wondering exactly where the tire rub at full lock is happening, rub marks visible...<br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/8677/1005126small3hm.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The good news is I finally got around to mounting a bracket to my heat shield (vibrated freely since no longer attached to DP). <br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/2636/1005132small2pg.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4025/1005136small5vj.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The bad news is that is not what was causing the vibration noise inside the car. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> It is in fact something in the dash vibrating. This makes sense since it got a little worse when I added the strut brace pre-tensioner bushings. <p>And now fun with alignment... Volvo dealers machine only had 6.5x16" rims available for the S60, so they couldn't do the alignment (head service tech is on holiday, but very wierd). <br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/1804/1005143small9dh.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/5647/1005145small7pa.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The cool thing is, Volvo sent me down the street to R&S, the high end wheel and tire shop. They have a brand new state of the art alignment machine, it was very trick. <br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/8480/1005148small3ns.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Here are my before and afters...<br><IMG SRC="http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4747/1005151small0ia.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/6058/1005154small2la.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/3044/1005152small3vi.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7614/1005153small7nv.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Made sure he knew about new rear toe specs, the got both wheels to .07. There were more green when he was done so overall worked well. <p>Don't know the German, but I think this means I have -1.53 deg negative camber on my left rear wheel, and -2.07 degrees on right rear wheel. <br><IMG SRC="http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2984/alignmentapr061fb.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>But visibly it is a lot less than need's so <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>What is interesting, is that after bushing change and spending the day on lifts, rear end has raised about 1/2" and negative camber is visibly less. I'll measure again tomorrow to see if this stays.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by "R" Kelly at 8:04 PM 4-6-2006</i>
 

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Tire rubs are pretty distinctive. I'm not seeing tire rub in that picture though. I do see wheel well liner damage which can come from rubs, debris, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: (rollie)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rollie</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tire rubs are pretty distinctive. I'm not seeing tire rub in that picture though. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Flash makes them more difficult to see, but this should help...<p><IMG SRC="http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/8849/slide24la.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/7900/slide11lu.jpg" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

Hey Kelly, super write up. What is the bushing for? Is it for the minor clunking in the rear end at low speeds over minor bumps?????
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Flash makes them more difficult to see, but this should help...<p>2 images</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't think that is really rub, looks more like dirt picked up by the tires, maybe during winter time.And why is your driver side camber set to positive?<p>Also did they actually replace the bushings or didn't they? If they did did they tighten the bushings while the car was on it's feet to get rid of preload on the bushing? Could be a cause for the extrme camber on the rear passenger side..
 

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Re: (MASH)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MASH</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Hey Kelly, super write up. What is the bushing for? Is it for the minor clunking in the rear end at low speeds over minor bumps?????</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It is Volvo's attempt at reducing the "sidestepping" issue. If I remember correctly, it also comes with suspension revision 4 which you may or may not want since it softens up the ride.
 

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Re: (MagoonR)

Thanks Goonie. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: TNN 60-08, oil change, heat shield bracket, brake doohickey... ("R" Kelly)

Is that rust on the swaybar?<p>So it looks like you are running pretty high camber in the back. Are you going to ask your service dept to do the "JRL jiggle"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: (Johann)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johann</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think that is really rub, looks more like dirt picked up by the tires, maybe during winter time.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Just going to have to trust me, that is rubber rubbed/melted off of tire onto well. Like I said, flash really distorts color. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johann</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And why is your driver side camber set to positive?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Ask Volvo, I have no idea. But it is within range evidently, cuz it's green. JRL was talking about "hand-built" quality of Volvos when it comes to suspensions.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johann</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also did they actually replace the bushings or didn't they? If they did did they tighten the bushings while the car was on it's feet to get rid of preload on the bushing? Could be a cause for the extrme camber on the rear passenger side..</TD></TR></TABLE><p>They did...<br><IMG SRC="http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4994/1005139small4eu.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>And they tightened it while it was unloaded in the air. Are you saying -2.0 degrees is "extreme"? Cuz it doesn't look as much as it was, and not visibly as much as <br><IMG SRC="http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/need11at47/Picture2.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>although he was reporting that was only -2.0 degrees as well...<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Here are pics I just took (already dark here). But this is visibly less negative camber than before bushing install. <p>-2.07 ? (doesn't seem that much IMO).<br><IMG SRC="http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3384/1005161small3qy.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4208/1005162small2ab.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>-1.53 ? (again, doesn't seem that much, what do you all think?)<br><IMG SRC="http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7503/1005160small2lp.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3263/1005164small0uc.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Could the sway bar not being centered cause the uneven negative camber? <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by "R" Kelly at 8:47 PM 4-6-2006</i>
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

"Don't know the German, but I think this means I have<B> -1.53 deg </B>negative camber on my left rear wheel, and<B> -2.07 degrees</B> on right rear wheel. <br><A HREF="http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2984/alignmentapr061fb.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img341.imageshack.us/im...b.jpg</A><p>"If true, <B>NOT good</B> <U>at all</U><br>However, by just looking at it, you don't appear to have that much.<br>You can visibly see over 2 degrees of camber
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"If true, <B>NOT good</B> <U>at all</U><br>However, by just looking at it, you don't appear to have that much.<br>You can visibly see over 2 degrees of camber</TD></TR></TABLE><p><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/6058/1005154small2la.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Clearly shows negative camber, but visible results don't match the diagram. I may pull the rear spacers and try again... the tech said they wouldn't affect the alignment, but trying to come up with explanation for discrepancy. <p>Also, would sliding the rear sway bar from the right to left help even out the rear camber? Trying to figure out why it would be different side to side.
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Also, would sliding the rear sway bar from the right to left help even out the rear camber? Trying to figure out why it would be different side to side.</TD></TR></TABLE><br><B>Most of us</B> are off from side to side with the right side the one with more neg camber. No one knows YET why, we're trying to figure this out <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I used to be left -1.2, right, -1.7<br>After they loosened up and juked the car around I'm now -.7 on the left and -1.2 on the right.<br>Between you and me, the wagon felt better with more camber but I would like to keep a set of tires on the car, for a little while anyway
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br><B>Most of us</B> are off from side to side with the right side the one with more neg camber. No one knows YET why, we're trying to figure this out <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I used to be left -1.2, right, -1.7<br>After they loosened up and juked the car around I'm now -.7 on the left and -1.2 on the right.<br>Between you and me, the wagon felt better with more camber but I would like to keep a set of tires on the car, for a little while anyway</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks as always. <p>So far I'm very happy with Kumho Ecsta SPTs (only $130 each), so if they wear out early, not like replacing a $240 PS2. My ring and Autobahn days are almost over, so if Kumho's wear out REALLY fast, I'll look at General Exclaim UHPs... very highly rated and only $97 per tire.<p>Still no answer on whether I should get IPD camber adjustment kit for the front. After seeing my above results, I think I will. Anything to look out for? Thoughts? Scott? Anyone?
 

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Re: (mike_c70)

Yep, with my V70R and the Eibach springs I could reach -1.2 max.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: (Johann)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johann</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes it is, at least up to -0.6 or 0.7. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>So, if I go back, I can ask him to adjust this? I would like both at -1.0 I think. Certainly don't need driver front at +.11 and passenger front at -.51.<p><IMG SRC="http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7614/1005153small7nv.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The front camber was in green (acceptable range), maybe he didn't know he could adjust it on an S60? <p>Johann, you got a picture of what you adjust to alter front camber?
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>The front camber was in green (acceptable range), maybe he didn't know he could adjust it on an S60? <p>Johann, you got a picture of what you adjust to alter front camber?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>There's a huge difference in behavior and also traction using +0.1 or -0.5.<br>I have seen these numbers before to correct for road banking, to keep the car in a more straight line on a road which leans to the side, but on a right hand corner the car will start to plow much sooner when using +0.1 camber. Since the ring is all righthanders you have a disadvantage using these setting.<p>I think for you best would be to try to get the front near -0.3 both sides. This would give a nice compromise between straight line behavior, cornering and steering feel. More negative will make the car behave more nervous in a straight line but will bring better traction under hard cornering.<p>To adjust front camber just loosen both lower bolts of the strut on the hub and move the wheel in or out to your desired setting. <p>As Jim Lill has mentioned before, adjustement amount of the camber can vary from car to car also. Some can only do -0.6-0.8 I believe on a stock suspension setup. A lowered car often brings more room for negative camber setting because the lowering causes the strut to tilt inward. With many cars it is hard to get closer to zero or positive when lowered.<p>For the rear, saying that the springs cause mild lowering, I would expect a negative camber near -1 to -1.2 at the most. Like we have seen on this forum these measurement vary a lot from car to car. When looking at the thrust angle at some alignment one would assume the rear subframe is mounted OK so it must be in the way the bushings are mounted or the quality of the bushings. I mean all bushings, not just the ones changed on your car. There isn't much you can do with this except monitoring the tire wear behavior a bit more frequent. <br>
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They did...<br><IMG SRC="http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4994/1005139small4eu.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>And they tightened it while it was unloaded in the air.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>IMO, the bushing should be tightened only after lowering the car onto its wheels and gently settling side-to-side. This relieves torsional stress within the bushing. But, the effect is small, and I doubt it will change camber much.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could the sway bar not being centered cause the uneven negative camber?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>As for the sway bar's side-to-side orientation, no that won't affect camber. What could affect camber is the end links. Some sways are not quite "level" side to side, the ends are slightly twisted, or the holes are off. But the R's rear bar is relatively straight (some bars are downright rectangular) so any effect there is going to be small too. Short answer, don't worry about it.<p>Tom.
 
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