SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,499 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, guys, I really need your help on this one.<p>Remember <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=55990" TARGET="_blank">this thread</A> and <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=57049" TARGET="_blank">this thread</A>? Well, the tire saga continues. Please bear with me.<p>As you suggested, I went back to the insurance company last Saturday and did not accept the car because they had installed 91Y load-rated tires in the front which don't match the original 95Y rated ones in the rear. They said they would keep the car, do their research and change them if necessary.<p>During this week, I have talked to almost every person in their claims center and also to a claims handling supervisor who said she would have my problem taken care of and I have not heard back from her since, even though I have left her voicemails.<p>The people at the claims center have called several places, including my local dealerships and TireRack, but have not been able to find the 95Y tires. They also called Pirelli, where they were told those tires were discontinued. They are telling me that they cannot find the tires and that Pirelli told them the 91Y's are a suitable replacement. Last I heard from them yesterday was that they were not going to replace the tires and they were getting something in writing from Pirelli to prove the 91Y's are OK.<p>So I decided to take matters into my own hands, but so far I haven't had much luck, which is why I am asking for your advise.<p>I called Volvo customer service where they told me I had to call Pirelli. I called Pirelli customer service, where they told me they would not recommend this setup, but they couldn't send me anything in writing, as they don't get involved in any legal matters. They also said they didn't believe Pirelli could give my insurance company anything in writing saying otherwise, so I'm waiting to see what these people show me. My last move was calling Haldex and they said this setup didn't affect the function of their traction at all.<p>Is everybody right and I should accept these tires? If this is not the case, as you have advised before, I don't know where else to go.<p>Please help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

They probobly discontinued those 95Y because of the harsh ride. In my opinion 4Y is OK for the difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,499 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (MASH)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MASH</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They probobly discontinued those 95Y because of the harsh ride. In my opinion 4Y is OK for the difference. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>My issue is not only the load rating and whether 91Y is enough, but also the non-matching loads between front and rear tires and whether the car will perform the same way. I need to prove otherwise or take the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,166 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

Check the classified section. There are several folks with PZeros for sale.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,504 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check the classified section. There are several folks with PZeros for sale.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I have 4 low mile ones I was going to use but to help...... I'd sell
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,800 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

I know you said you called volvo but it would seem you could just go to your local volvo parts dept. and order the correct tires. The load rating would be volvo's responsibility as it's their design spec. If you ask me whatever Pirelli says isn't worth anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,019 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

At the risk of firing up the enthusiasts, I'm going to say that unless you are pushing the tire to its limits, it will make no difference if you have four tires with two different load ratings. Just match them on an axle, so to speak: 95Y up front and 91Y in the rear.<p>The tires are all speed rated to 186 mph (at/about 168mph at 100% load). The max vehicle weight (car + load) is no more than 4500 lbs, so you have plenty of room on the load index limit of the tires (4500/4= 1125lbs, inflated to 35 psi) up to 130-145 mph (Pirelli should tell you what the maximum speed at 35 psi is). While the maximum load for Standard Load tires is spec'd at 35 psi, many of the ultra high performance tires can go well beyond that pressure before the max load starts to fall off. <A HREF="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...d.jsp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...d.jsp</A><p>If you are concerned about the relative stiffness of the tires (due to sidewall construction) you can probably compensate for that with tire pressure. If the 95Y's are stiffer that will affect your ride quality, but the question is how much. I'll bet it's no worse than what you would get if you ran 91Y's at their rated inflation. FWIW, Michelin's recommended tire for the R is a 94Y)<p>The major difference that I can see will be in tire wear. The higher load index tire should last longer. The difference seems to be insignificant at low load levels. <A HREF="http://www.us.pirelli.com/en_U...jhtml" TARGET="_blank">http://www.us.pirelli.com/en_U...jhtml</A> (And for vintagemilano, who doesn't believe anything Pirelli says, Michelin says the same thing. BTW doesn't Team Ferrari run Pirellis on some of its cars??)<p>For most (all?) of your driving, these tires are so far over the top that you shouldn't notice a difference, track or autocrossing aside, and all other things being equal/comparable, i.e. tread design, depth, etc. Put it to bed and get your car back. (Besides, for as quickly as these tires wear, you'll be replacing them soon enough anyhow.)<p>edited: BLOT is right, load indexes are rated at 35 psi (cold) for a Standard Load tire and typically max out at that pressure. However, tires with a V speed ratings or higher can maintain their max load limit at higher psi--check with the tire mfr.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by MrTippy at 5:47 PM 4-24-2006</i>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,261 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

hth. <A HREF="http://www.tirereview.com/?type=art&id=5278" TARGET="_blank">http://www.tirereview.com/?type=art&id=5278</A>&<p>Double Jeopardy<br>by Scott Blair<p><br>March 2006<p>In Focus: Performance<br>When you sell a set of non-OE tires, do you set the air pressure the same as it was in the OE tires?<p>Do your sales staff, manager and technicians understand the importance of load index? Can they read a load and inflation table? Can they recite, from memory, the inflation rule – that the replacement tire must meet or exceed the OE tire’s load carrying capacity?<p>If the answer’s “no,” you might be taking a big liability risk. Not only do you have to train your staff in these matters, you also have to document that training to be fully protected against potential legal losses.<p>Concerned? You should be. In fact, sit down and hold on; we’re going to hit you right between the eyes. We’re going to show you how you can sell the right tire size but the wrong load index.<p>More Complex Than Ever<p>Times have changed. Five years ago, a specific tire size had only one load index number. Not today. Now, a given tire size may have as many as five different load index numbers molded on the sidewall, making it impossible just to look at the size of a given tire and make the assumption that the load index number is the same just because the tire size is same. These days, you have to look at each tire, along with its complete sizing information, before you can make any fitment decisions.<p>The following case studies will illustrate the importance of the relationship between load index and tire size.<p>Case File: One<p>A customer wants a set of 20-inch tires on his 2003 Lexus LS430. The OE tire is a P225/55R17 95H, standard load (SL) with a load index of 95 and recommended cold inflation pressure of 32 psi front/rear. The overall diameter (OD) is 26.8.<p>You have a stack of P255/35R20 93Hs on the floor with an OD of 27, so you sell him a package deal. “The OD is correct, so it must the right tire,” you think to yourself. Not so fast. Take a look at the load index of that 20-inch tire. Notice that it is 93. The OE tire’s load index was 95. Install that tire, and you just might open the door to a liability suit if that customer gets into a wreck after leaving your shop.<p>“How can this be?” you ask. I’ll show you: The OE P225/55R17 95H tire inflated to the recommended air pressure equates to 1,477 pounds of load capacity. A standard load (SL) P-metric tire reaches its maximum load capacity at 35 psi, regardless of the maximum inflation pressure listed on the sidewall!<p>Looking at the load and inflation table, we see that the load index of 93 on the P255/35R20 93H tire equates to only 1,433 pounds of load capacity at 35 psi. It’s only 44 pounds per tire. “That’s not going to matter,” you argue. Tell that to the judge when he reads a settlement against you for some ridiculous amount of money because “the replacement tire did not meet or exceed the OE tire’s load carrying capacity.”<p>The correct tire for this plus-size application should be a euro-metric (There is a difference!) 255/35R20 97H XL (extra load) tire, which has a load index of 97. Let’s say you installed this tire, which we now know is correct, but you used the OE air pressure of 32 psi. At 32 psi, this tire will only carry 1,290 pounds.<p>If you do the math, you’ll see the following: 1,477-1,290=187 pounds overloaded per tire or 748 pounds totally overloaded. The correct cold inflation pressure should be adjusted to 38 psi front/rear to equal the 1,477 pounds of load capacity specified by the vehicle manufacturer.<p>Case File: Two<p>A customer comes in and wants a set of 20-inch tires on a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Crew Cab RWD truck. The OE tire is a P265/70R17 113R (SL), with a recommended cold inflation pressure of 35 psi front/rear. You have a set of take-offs from another Ram 1500 already mounted with P275/55R20 111S tires. Since they came off of a Ram 1500, they should fit your customer’s truck, right? Sure, they might ‘fit,’ but they won’t be the right tires.<p>The OE tire inflated to 35 psi equates to 2,535 pounds of load capacity. Take a look at the 20-inch tire’s load index: 111 SL. As mentioned earlier, a (SL) P-metric tire reaches its maximum load capacity at 35 psi. Therefore, a lower load index will decrease the maximum load capacity. If you were to install this tire and inflate it to 35 psi, the tire would be overloaded by 132 (2,535-2,403) pounds per tire or 528 pounds totally overloaded.<p>The correct tire would be the optional tire that Dodge uses on its heavier trucks – P275/60R20 114S (SL). The load and inflation table reveals that, with the higher load index, we can adjust air pressure to 33 psi and still meet the OE recommended cold inflation pressure.<p>In this case, however, you should still inflate to 35 psi, which exceeds the minimum recommended load capacity. The load capacity numbers were not technically correct. Can you guess why?<p>Notice that, in Case One, a P-metric tire was installed on a light truck. According to the RMA, the load capacity of a P-metric or euro-metric tire installed on a light truck has to be reduced. Divide the load capacity of the P-metric or euro-metric tire by 1.1 to determine the load capacity for a light truck application.<p>A common example would be a P235/75R15 105S (SL) tire inflated to 35 psi. The load capacity for a passenger car application would be 2,028 pounds. Placing this same tire on a light truck equates to 1,844 (2028÷1.1) pounds of load capacity. If this tire was the OE size for the truck, this calculation would already be done and reflected on the door placard.<p>There are other factors involved when installing LT-metric or flotation tires on a light truck that has OE P-metric or euro-metric tires, so make sure that you receive proper instruction before making these types of changes.<p>New Legislation<p>Finally, you should be aware of some new legislation regarding the installation of aftermarket wheels and non-OE tires on a new vehicle that hasn’t been titled yet. The new rule, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard #110, which took effect Sept. 1, 2005, states that if you “alter” a new vehicle by installing different tires or wheels, you must place a new tire inflation and load capacity placard over the original to indicate the new front/rear/spare air pressures to the buyer.<p>SEMA has compiled recommendations to help you avoid any problems that may arise due to differing interpretations of the ruling. You can order the placards from various label makers.<p>If you are interested in getting this information, feel free to contact me, and I will direct you to several companies compiled by NHTSA. This standard applies to changes in the vehicle’s weight capacity, as well. If you install products that add weight to the vehicle, you will need to indicate the new weight capacity of the vehicle, which will be the manufacturer’s listed weight less the amount you added. NHTSA does allow for a 0.5% deviation of the gross vehicle weight rating without replacing the placard, but this may change in the coming months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,545 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (MrTippy)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MrTippy</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At the risk of firing up the enthusiasts, I'm going to say that unless you are pushing the tire to its limits, it will make no difference if you have four tires with two different load ratings. Just match them on an axle, so to speak: 95Y up front and 91Y in the rear.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'm an enthusiast (not my immediate swap to PS2) but still <I>almost</I> agree with you. However, I must say that on any other car I might agree but we all know how sensative 4C is to the type of tires on the R. Mixing load ratings could make the 4C rear-end hope worse, or better <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>LTA<br>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,545 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

Razor1973 - Sorry you are still caught up in all this mess.<p>Call you ins. company on Monday, tell them your found the tires yourself and to send you a check for the MSRP value plus installation. Send my 85% of it and I'll ship you two virtualy new OEM 95Y Rosso's. Just to be safe I'll sell you all 4 so you have two spares ready just in case Pirelli really did (or does) stop selling them <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I took these off my new R this month with approx 150miles on them<br><IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/field172/IMG_3261.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>LTA<br>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,124 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

I agree with another poster here in that turn the problem over to the Volvo dealer. I would just say "I need two new tires for a 2005 Volvo S60R", and let them source them and determine what is "right". They are obligated to use vendors that can source proper spares.<p>If they are less than the proper load rating, I would insist that the receipt make it clear these are for use on a 2005 S60R. <p>I do not have my owners manual available right now, but you will read in there that any replacement tire MUST be equal or greater than the original specification.<p>I agree with BLOT that requirements are being tightened. An excellent summary by the way! I am sure that many have seen tire and wheel combinations that make it clear why these efforts are required.<p>Trust me you do not want to get cross ways in any litigation with DOT or FORD who as you may recall had no problem throwing Firestone under the bus after a 100 year vendor relationship. Using an under rated tire gets them off the hook, on the VERY REMOTE possibility that there would ever be a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,888 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (blot)

Case one is flawed. 1477lbs is for 94 and not 95 load index. <p>So, ok, now how are we suppose to know what the proper cold inflation pressure should for a new tire with a different load rating?<p>For example, what are the different pressures we should be running on the Rs with 17s as opposes to 18s?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,019 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (mike_c70)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mike_c70</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, ok, now how are we suppose to know what the proper cold inflation pressure should for a new tire with a different load rating?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Go to a local tire store and check out their copy of: The Tire Guide, <A HREF="http://www.tireguides.com/catalog01.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.tireguides.com/catalog01.html</A>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63,543 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (mike_c70)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mike_c70</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Case one is flawed. 1477lbs is for 94 and not 95 load index. <p>So, ok, now how are we suppose to know what the proper cold inflation pressure should for a new tire with a different load rating?<p>For example, what are the different pressures we should be running on the Rs with 17s as opposes to 18s?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Same pressures<br>(On a wagon you would run a couple of more lbs than an S60)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

I have four brand new OEM 18" PZeros off an '06 for sale, including the warranty certificate. They're listed in the classifieds through Yannis. If you're interested, drop me an IM. You can have them in a few days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,499 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (sgmlaw)

Thanks everyone for your advise and especially those of you who've offered to help.<p><b>MagoonR</b>, only JohnnyEnglish and LTA have the right tires and they're selling a set of 4, not just two. LTA only sales in Canada too.<p><b>JimLill</b>, thanks a lot for your really nice offer. If you weren't planning on selling those, don't. It's not my problem that my insurance company hasn't found the tires, and much less yours. I could help them find the tires, but it would be a favor to them, not me. Thanks again.<p><b>vintagemilano</b>, I called both local dealers back then and they didn't have the tires.<p><b>MrTippy</b>, thanks for your detailed explanation, but did you see the link provided by blot? Whether one or the other are true, I'd rather be on the safe side, especially when that's what my expensive coverage guarantees.<p><b>blot</b>, great, great, GREAT article! I plan to show it to my insurance company.<p><b>LTA</b>, hey, I thought you only shipped to Canada! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> And no, I cannot ask them to reimburse me without an invoice.<p><b>rogersampson</b>, that's what I figured, but my local dealers washed their hands saying the 91Y's were a suitable replacement for the original 95Y's and I may not know much about this, but I do know I don't trust those people's accumen, which is why I came here for the real advise.<p><b>sgmlaw</b>, I searched the Wheel & Tire Classifieds section for "PZero" and "Rosso", but no ad from Yannis.<p>__________<br>Anyways, I ended up talking to a manager in another location who was able to help. The agreement was that I picked up the car with the 91Y-rated tires and that they would order the 95Y's and call me back so that I can drop off my car once again.<p>After one month not driving it, I picked up the car last Saturday (I didn't think I could miss the Volvo this much! *LOL*). Then handed me a printout of e-mail from a tire vendor with 3 different dates when they could ship the tires from 3 different locations in the country. They are estimating June and I am OK with that.<p>Once again, thanks everyone! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,478 Posts
why don't you find out how much they are going to spend to replace the tires they cover under your policy... and then hve them cut you a check, and apply that money toward a set of 4 new tires...like PS2s. it would cost you money, but you could use the insuranc eproceeds to fund a whole new set of rubber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63,543 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Razor1973</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>.<p><b>sgmlaw</b>, I searched the Wheel & Tire Classifieds section for "PZero" and "Rosso", but no ad from Yannis.<p>: </TD></TR></TABLE>Took me 5 seconds<br><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=56745" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=56745</A><p>Scroll down, <B>tires only</B> now are for sale and still are available at a rediculously cheap price<br>Why don't you slow down, <B>LOOK AT AND READ</B> the ads?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,545 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Razor1973</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br><b>LTA</b>, hey, I thought you only shipped to Canada! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> And no, I cannot ask them to reimburse me without an invoice.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hi Razor1973]: Sorry, I guess I was being a bit cheaky offering my tires for sale to you. I'll ship to the US but only if I can net more than the $600 I can get from a local wholesaler. There's just such a HUGE difference in tire prices between Canada and the US, it's crazy!<br>(eg. my PS2's cost me net $375CDN each from TireRack, locally they are over $500 each <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> )<p>Regarding your tire dilema, I think you are finally on the right track and I fully agree that getting a tire that meets or exceeds Volvo's spec is THE way to go. It's nice to see how this most excellent SS Forum pays off, eh!<p>LTA<br>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,124 Posts
Re: Tire help needed AGAIN - Please read (Razor1973)

<p><b>rogersampson</b>, that's what I figured, but my local dealers washed their hands saying the 91Y's were a suitable replacement for the original 95Y's and I may not know much about this, but I do know I don't trust those people's accumen, which is why I came here for the real advise.<p>It is not a comforting feeling that the dealer experts would recommend an under rated tire be used. Most people would not know better and even if they questioned it would assume the dealer knew what they were talking about. Perhaps by SUITABLE they mean it will fit and it is round, etc. <p>I wonder if they would also approve of a 91 rated tire on the V70R, which requires a 97 load rating, albeit a 17 inch.<p>
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top