SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

Name is Nick, and I have been a long time lurker on swedespeed, since high school. I am in the market for a new used car, and I am pretty set on the S60R, or a V70R, but I am finding a lot more S60Rs on the market. Recently, I totaled my 2014 Subaru BRZ which I had lightly modified (Tuned on E85 ethanol, Front pipe / Cat-back, CAI). Currently, I can not afford a new BRZ, and my insurance on another 2-door sports coupe is through the roof given my age, driving history (not that bad), and the recent accident.

These factors have led me back to Volvo. My first car was a 1997 850 GLT wagon, which I drove up to over 200k. The odometer stopped rolling at 194,600 but I used the car as a work commuter for the rest of the year. I have since owned Subarus. 07 2.5i impreza, 07 Impreza WRX, and the BRZ.

When shopping for insurance, the Volvo Rs are surprisingly cheap, and this was a huge factor in choosing my next car. I considered a used Legacy Spec B, (and read a few threads here, and on a Legacy forum about them), used 3 series (328 or 325xi), and ultimately Ended up searching for Rs every time. I have always wanted to own an R, and even when in the BRZ or WRX, every time I saw an R drive by, I would watch and stare. Such sexy lines.

This said, I have found a few for sale that meet my criteria (Manual being the biggest need), one 2004 & a 2007, and I have come here to ask a few questions.


There are many more 2004s for sale, and only a few 06 -07 models. Id prefer the 07 because it is newer by 3 years, and has the changes in the awd changes that came in 06 ( I am correct in saying this?yes?). Are the changes in the awd (cosmetic changes dont really car about) worth the ~2-4k difference I am finding while shopping around?

Another question, that is tricky i know, would you rather buy an 04-05 with a full history, or an 06-07 with a partial history?
I am aware of most common problems with the R family and am fairly mechanically inclined(Changed out head gasket on the 850 when my oil turned milky and foamy, did all work on the Subarus minus tune).

What would you be willing to pay for an 07, 8/10 condition, 88k on the clock? KBB puts them in and around ~7-10k, but I know the dealer quote is going to come in quite higher.

Lastly, When buying a used R, should I aim for lowest overall miles, or should I find one that has had the timing /water pump replace (believe this is at 105k).

Sorry for the long first post :) I have just under a month to find my next car, and should have my check from the insurance company within 10 days. Just wanted to official say hello to the community and was hoping to get some feed back from current R owners. Thank in Advance!! Hopefully by the new year I will be a fellow R owner :cool::thumbup::beer:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Not as much of an expert as some of the other people on here, but I would say don't be afraid of the 04. I have a very early build (March 2003) and haven't had any problems outside of the angle gear and solenoid for speed sensitive steering. The 04 has more heavily bolstered seats, too. For me it was about aesthetics--most people prefer the 05-07, whereas I wanted the 04.

I would definitely prefer a car with, say, 150k miles and a lot of recent service/service history to one with an unknown history and half the miles. The maintenance costs can add up very quickly if you need to fix a lot all at once.

Generally, you'll pay more for a manual, more for a wagon, more for the Atacama interior, and more for the later cars. Hard to value the car you are describing without knowing those things about it. If it's an 07 V70R with a manual and Atacama, it could be worth quite a lot (relatively speaking).

Hope this helps. Good luck with your search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Welcome!! I'm new but have been elbow deep in my R for the past week and if your mechanically inclined like you say, I prefer lower price. I'll probably get hammered on here for this but unless you have evidence that items have been changed then a 10+ year old car is a 10+ year old car and things are going to wear out and break from eitheir age or mileage. My thread is in my signature and you'll see all I have done in the past few weeks to my R and it hasn't been that bad working on it. Again you don't want one that looks like someone has been pounding on it but there are caRs on here with 200k and are running good. But, maintenance is going to happen especially if this is your daily, so to spend 10k on a car because the miles are low but no history you maybe spending a lot in parts to keep it in good shape or another 10k if you are taking it to a shop. This was my mind set when I was shopping, so at least I will know what was done to ther car because when I purchased I was prepared to do everything
You may not find the deal I did but that was my mindset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,605 Posts
The AWD updates aren't a huge deal, but they are worth noting. The 06-07 models Haldex system is configured slightly differently but the main thing is the stronger collar gear which is the Achilles heel of the car. The 04-05 models tend to strip out collar gears a little quicker, leaving you with a FWD vehicle until you fix it.

There's a lot of variables that go into finding a desirable R, like jonkoping said. The cars are rare so if you find one in the right color and interior with good records, it doesn't really matter what year it is.

$9k-13k is probably what I would pay for a nicely maintained R, less for 04-05, more for 06-07. I bought mine at a dealership a couple years ago for $15k with full records, new clutch, full Volvo dealer-maintained.

Good rule of thumb that someone posted recently, was every R costs around $8-10k if you're buying used and private party. Either you're going to buy it for $4k and throw $4k at it right away, or you're going to buy a nice one that needs nothing for more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,562 Posts
Every R costs 8k. There's a schedule of what breaks and when. This is compiled from 293k miles of receipts roughly. An R with 150k miles needs everything... That's not even a exaderation.... Coils, plugs, suspension, angle gear, PCV, brakes, and possibly a clutch. 06-07 have a preloaded haldex pump. 1/17 a wheel revolution before power is sent vs 1/4 a wheel revolution 04-05. Be willing to spend money freely. Everything you should ever need aside from an angle gear reseal is basically in that spreadsheet. And it's overkill...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Lqs5E40hctVIpVmuBQTA0ZSp-T1NXgzNNLazKHihWY/edit?usp=sharing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
438 Posts
Get the VR. I have the SR and I would have rather gotten the VR. Its usefulness can't be overexaggerated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the replies all.

Got the quote from the dealer. 10,500 for the 07 with 88k on the clock. Car was owned by an older gentleman and is immaculate inside and out. Red with two tone interior.

This sounds like a good deal to me. I will only be able to get a partial history though, carfax is clean which is a plus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Every R costs 8k. There's a schedule of what breaks and when. This is compiled from 293k miles of receipts roughly. An R with 150k miles needs everything... That's not even a exaderation.... Coils, plugs, suspension, angle gear, PCV, brakes, and possibly a clutch. 06-07 have a preloaded haldex pump. 1/17 a wheel revolution before power is sent vs 1/4 a wheel revolution 04-05. Be willing to spend money freely. Everything you should ever need aside from an angle gear reseal is basically in that spreadsheet. And it's overkill...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Lqs5E40hctVIpVmuBQTA0ZSp-T1NXgzNNLazKHihWY/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you for the spreadsheet, good to have and look over. Ive owned an 850, my mom has owned 3 volvos (current is 2013 s60) and my best friend has had his 04 s60 for 8 years now. I am pretty well acquainted with the associated cost of owning a volvo.

I have always wanted an R, figured I should buy one before they get any older. Im lucky to have a very nice 2 door garage and a decent tool set, so hopefully most work will be done by myself to keep the cost down. Angle gear scares me though
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
438 Posts
The advantage to the later haldex (engineer in me speaking not direct experience) is it should be easier on the angle gear. Less wheel spin means less breakage in almost all 4wd


systems.


The manual is more fun. The wagon more unique. Be prepared to do your own work on tons of stuff. Don't buy a smoked in car.


Also, you might take it for an inspection at a good Volvo Indy. Have em check for exhaust gas in the coolant and other likely issues. Get a VIDA scan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
I have a R for sale just saying ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
602 Posts
"Get the VR. I have the SR and I would have rather gotten the VR. Its usefulness can't be over exaggerated."

I second that in a HUGE way! I have an 04 manual stock V70R and it's insanely useful and fast. I have done all the major repairs by 55k (miles on it today) primarily due to age more than miles. Things just wear out. It's not necessarily the miles on the car that save you money, it's the over all age and both those cars are getting long in the tooth. Instinctively everyone leans to the newer car but many times the newer ones are the ones with more issues as they haven't had the work done. Look for the R with the work done already.

Have fun and good luck!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have a R for sale just saying ;)
Looking for one that is stock, or real close to it, so I can mod it as I find areas I want to improve. 300hp and 290tq is huge compared to my BRZ (E85 tune put down 225rwhp/ ~180tq), so most likely power will be addressed last. THe BRZ may have low power numbers, but I have never driving a car that has felt so raw and provides so much feed back. ~2800 lbs with a ful tank of fuel, so the volvo is doing to feel very heavy. I foresee a lot of poly and other suspension mods coming my way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I got some photos of the car im looking at and will upload them tomorrow. Shopped for insurance and it is cheap, so thats a plus. Hopefully arranging a plane ticket to get a test drive in. Really hope it drives well and has no unwanted vibrations or shudders. Dealership already said they would pick me up at the airport if needed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,463 Posts
Welcome to swedespeed - lots of good information on these threads. There is no two tone interior on the R so the PO may have had some custom work done. The timing belt/water pump service is 10 years or 105k, whichever comes first so take that into account if it hasn't been done yet. Post some pics of what you are looking at when you get a chance. Good luck on the hunt!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
lies (including/especially big ones), repeated sufficiently often, are believe as truths...

lots of [good] information on these threads. There is no two tone interior on the R ... The timing belt/water pump service is 10 years or 105k,
Damn ... I've read that disinfo so many times that i succumbed, and believed it, until I spoke to the good Volvo svc mgr, who questioned/corrected me: Sure enough, it's 10 yrs or 120K mi, just as it says -- and I'd read -- in my caR's owneR's manual.

Here, too and here, too, but it recommends replacing the auxiliary drive belt at 105K 150K :confused: mi. ("Helps avoid belt failure while driving.")

FWIW, my caR's manual calls for timing belt, aux belt, and fuel filter at 120K mi. I had my 8-yr-old's done at 113K mi (earlier this year when the caR was out of service anyway to have LCA bushings replaced again), and all the timing belt stuff was still in good shape...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,605 Posts
Damn ... I've read that disinfo so many times that i succumbed, and believed it, until I spoke to the good Volvo svc mgr, who questioned/corrected me: Sure enough, it's 10 yrs or 120K mi, just as it says -- and I'd read -- in my caR's owneR's manual.

Here, too and here, too, but it recommends replacing the auxiliary drive belt at 105K 150K :confused: mi. ("Helps avoid belt failure while driving.")

FWIW, my caR's manual calls for timing belt, aux belt, and fuel filter at 120K mi. I had my 8-yr-old's done at 113K mi (earlier this year when the caR was out of service anyway to have LCA bushings replaced again), and all the timing belt stuff was still in good shape...
Not disinformation. For '04 the factory maintenance schedule calls for timing belt at 105k. It was later changed to 120k.

http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/2004/2004_maintenance_charts/2004_maintenance.html
http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/2007/2007_maintenance/2007_maintenance.html

It's highly recommended based on the number of premature timing belt failures documented on this forum to change it out prior to that though. I did mine at 108k and it still looked brand new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
I'm probably gonna come off as a huge @ss, but it's time for a reality check. quick question, can you afford to maintain a 50k car? The R was close to 50k in 04 and mileage isn't as important as the age. Best case scenario, the R would be at least 8 years old at this point. It sounds like you don't have much money, but want something that's fast. I'll tell you first hand, don't expect BRZ like handling from an R. Even with all the braces, the 3700lb sedan/wagon will never handle like a 2200lb 2 door sports coupe. Of course the R will destroy any BRZ/FRS in a straight line. The biggest issue with the Rs is their maintenance costs. Sure, people will tell you it's not bad, go for it! It's worth it in the end, but nobody will help you financially when your slave cylinder breaks. That's at least $1500 in repairs. More if you want a shop to do it. Your strut went? Either get coilovers, or you're looking at $250 a piece from rock auto. Angle gear/collar gear seals are $750 unless you do it yourself. Collar gear replacement is about the same. As well as the car may have been treated, bushings rot and dry out with age. There's no going around that. Refreshing the suspension and chasis is hundreds more.

All the negativity aside, the R is a one of a kind car. I traded mine in for a 370z, but I miss it every day. There's something about it that was so different. The issue though is that unless you can afford to properly maintain it, there's other cars that are better suited for you. I'm not sure how old you are, but I definitely would want something more reliable until my student loans are paid off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,562 Posts
Pretty much. Rs are cheap to buy but not cheap to own. If you want cheap Volvo AWD fun get an S60 AWD/XC70 (I'd say V70 AWD but they're hard to find and only through 04). If you're coming from a Toyota the repair cost will be way way way higher. Also messing with your R to make 350 wheel will require significant capital expenditure and reduce the life of the car significantly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,055 Posts
Being able to turn your own wrenches makes all the difference. Angle gear repair could easily be $1500 if you pay someone else to do it, yet less than half if you can DIY it. Very similar numbers for the clutch too.

As you state, big diff insurance wise having an old 4 door sedan vs some sporty two door. That alone may allow you to save enough over the long run to justify the steeper maintenance costs.

Don't let people scare you off with a bunch of horror stories though, not everyone blows their AG or clutch early, some of us have gotten well over 100K miles till either have gone out as is to be expected. Same goes for suspension parts, assuming you don't drive through potholes every day they could last you even longer.

I've put over 125K miles on my R, and in all that time there were only 3 serious maintenance items I needed since I bought it in mint condition with only 40K on the clock. First was the AG collar stripping around 80K miles, then the clutch slave cylinder blew around 140K miles, and then around 160K miles the turbo finally went, and when it did the turbo bearing debris went into the oil pan and caused me to spin a couple rod bearings. Then when I rebuild my motor I found that if the bearings hadn't gotten me that I had a couple cracked cylinders that were going to do me in sooner or later. I drive it like I stole it, so I'm never that surprised when I discover the weak links in any vehicle I own.

All that being said, by buying used I still have less money in my R than I would have if I bought it new, so not that bad of a deal when I consider all I have put into her and the power/torque values she gives back in return.

For details of what's been done and what was involved in rebuilding her, some of my mods and adventures are linked in my sig below.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
I had the same thought when I read the original post. If you can't afford a new BRZ at $25k and the cost of insurance is a huge driving factor in your choice of car, I'd think long and hard about whether this is the right car for you.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top