[rfkuehn]

I think it's worth doing the Excellence and the LWB versions to take on e.g. Range Rover in this segment. Geely wanted Volvo to make an S100 on the SPA platform but Volvo was nervous and resistant. They were a small independent car manufacturer for a long time so it feels like they are cautious when moving into new segments. "Hurry up slowly" as the Swedes say. That is changing now due to new people but also now being part of a big international group of brands. In the end the compromise was the S90L, 4 seat version, lounge concept and Excellence versions. Lower risk as a LWB of an existing model and a cheaper option too. A compromise between Volvo being cautious of going into a bigger and more expensive segment and Geely wanting to have presence there with one of their brands. To keep moving into that space Volvo needs to keep trying to build the brand image. Range Rover have incrementally moved into the luxury SUV space since the 2nd generation i.e. 1994. So Volvo can't try it once and leave the segment. Need to build the brand as an option there. So I think they will stick with or keep going with the EX90 Excellence (4 seater and also 3 seater), maybe a LWB version too.

Audi was a mainstream brand in the mid to late 1990s similar in kudos to a VW. It took a concerted and consistent effort to move Audi into more luxurious segments with larger models and sportier models to move it up to being alongside Mercedes and BMW.

Interesting info re: S90, I can see why there's an ES in the plan, at least on the earlier Blue chart. But oddly not the recent China chart? You'd think that would be noteworthy for China market, even if it meant adding another year to that graphic. Makes sense that EX30 and MPV come sooner, since their counterparts are already in production and that's a faster path to EV volume. Will be interesting to see timing for V546, EX60, and ES90.

Sort-of-re: Audi's path, I'm a fan of Volvo doing MPV. I think there's an untapped market for what are essentially premium minivans - combo of badge + utility can deliver what families need and also help the self-aware overcome threats to their self-image.

 

[VolvoGoteborg]

ES90 isn't on the chart as it only goes to 2024 and the ES90 isn't due till 2026ish I think. Certainly more important a product (with a LWB version too) for Asian and US markets than the EU where the SUV seems to be the vehicle of choice for every segment

 

[VolvoGoteborg]

Another opportunity for LWB EX90s and ES90s is to work closer with Nilsson again as Volvo did since the 1970s to 2000 to offer LWB saloons and estates, six door limousines etc. Was a very close collaboration with Volvo and successful e.g. co-design of vehicles, crash testing at Volvo, Volvo brochures for the products (rather than Nilsson alone), sort of bespoke low volume production for Volvo too for modified vehicles e.g. police and fire (now delivered by Volvo Special Vehicles). Nilsson built the Volvo 850 convertible prototype for Volvo too. In the end that model waited for the facelift to S70 and V70 and became a standalone model with a completely new bodyshell and shape.

Ford ended the collaboration in 2000 as they wanted Jaguar and not Volvo to be in this space. Nilsson ended up going bankrupt as a result which was sad.

Add Nilsson to the world of Geely brands to push further into this luxury, LWB, limousine segment etc.

Sounds Swedish (because it is ) so Nilsson as a standalone brand evolving Volvos or just collaborate closely with them

 

[alexander.argiriou]

EX30 Spy shots. Doesnt feel that much smaller than the xc40...

http://instagr.am/p/CnRe4NCoKUv/

 

[rfkuehn]

ES90 isn't on the chart as it only goes to 2024 and the ES90 isn't due till 2026ish I think. Certainly more important a product (with a LWB version too) for Asian and US markets than the EU where the SUV seems to be the vehicle of choice for every segment

I'll go way out on a limb and say Volvo doesn't build ES90 in USA and won't bother to bring it to USA. Literally no one here will care.

I think MPV has a better chance but won't come here initially. Watching VW ID Buzz, Chrysler EV minivan, and evolution of charging infrastructure might convince them later on. Hope so. If we were in a different place w/ kids and charging, we'd be all in for it - the ultimate compromise, could save marriages even.

Chrysler Pacifica EV: What we know about the all-electric minivan (topelectricsuv.com)

 

[VolvoGoteborg]

US market often misses out on certain Volvo models due to, I believe, the higher certification costs per vehicle and variant so Volvo US needs to choose carefully which models to bring. Tricky one though as if you don't offer something you don't know if it will sell. Same with predicted volumes, really a "who knows?!". Volvo US doesn't offer the V90 anymore? What about the V60? Volvo UK has dropped the S60 now as well. The S90 was on sale before it but consistently outsold it. They are very similar in appearance (except the trunk) and are hard to tell apart. Too close in size I think and for those who want a sedan, they tend to then opt for the larger one.

Need to remind myself of Volvo's sales charts per region and per model. Didn't realise the S90 and S60 were slow sellers there. Though the sedan was more popular in the US than the EU but Asia leading the way.

SUV for every size segment of car seems to be the way it's going.

Makes SUV only or specialist brands nervous e.g. Jeep and Land Rover/Range Rover as everyone is on their turf and in which case, what do they (the SUV specialist brands) offer and who are they once this happens and everyone makes SUVs or SUVs are the default type of car....

I'd prefer it if this Volvo MPV wasn't an EV but it seems the inevitable way things are going.

Toyota is pointing out ICE has a future. For both legislators and Govs plus the press and general public, there's a consistent mistake in assuming ICEs have to use fossil fuels. If we need to stop using or reduce fossil fuel use then we must get rid of the ICE. ICEs can use renewable fuels. The ICE pre-dates the petroleum industry and the first ICEs used what we'd now call biofuels or renewable fuels. But... legislation is blinkered to this and is forcing EVs. OEMs are gradually complying and some like Volvo see an opportunity to move faster than others in going EV only earlier.

 

[VolvoGoteborg]

I'll go way out on a limb and say Volvo doesn't build ES90 in USA and won't bother to bring it to USA. Literally no one here will care.

I think MPV has a better chance but won't come here initially. Watching VW ID Buzz, Chrysler EV minivan, and evolution of charging infrastructure might convince them later on. Hope so. If we were in a different place w/ kids and charging, we'd be all in for it - the ultimate compromise, could save marriages even.

Chrysler Pacifica EV: What we know about the all-electric minivan (topelectricsuv.com)

I also agree with you that other MPVs/Minivans from other brands certainly helps the case for Volvo's MPV to come to the US. If they sell well then that shows there's a market and opportunity. Volvo US may well wait and watch for a bit.

 

[Mikael793]

How well did the XC70 sell in the US compared to the S90 and S60 now? If there's a market for sedans, there might be one for a cross-over station wagon.

In my personal opinion, the XC70 7-seater did a lot of things right and still looks good. Take that idea to 2024 and that would be a car I would buy.

I like the idea of a Volvo family mover, but an all-terrain, all-purpose car with class leading cargo space would be nice. I still hope the V546 will be kind of that.

 

[rfkuehn]

I'd prefer it if this Volvo MPV wasn't an EV but it seems the inevitable way things are going.

If Volvo offered a MPV PHEV right now I'd bet that's a deal I could make with wife. Very few PHEV + 3-row + AWD offered, Lincoln Navigator might be the only other one. Not going EV for long-haul family road trip mobile.

And by the time charging infrastructure is far more reassuring, kids will be out of the house. Hopefully in college, but gone regardless.

 

[Conradi]

No you won't: you probably wouldn't like the design, the interior, the range, the software and everything else

 

[rfkuehn]

No you won't: you probably wouldn't like the design, the interior, the range, the software and everything else

 

[TurboJonte]

Time for an update...

First letter, brand
V = Volvo
P = Polestar

First digit, size
3 = Small
5 = Large
6 = Xtra large

Second digit, generation
1-N

Third digit, type
1 = Sedan
2 = Estate
6 = SUV
7 = Coupe SUV
X = Cross Country

Volvo models
V616 = EX100, MPV on PMA/SEA
V551 = Next gen S90, hints found on LinkedIn
V542 = V90, SPA
V541 = S90, SPA
V54X = V90CC, SPA
V546 = EX90 Excellence (I'm a bit confused by this rumored internal code, I don't believe it's an "EX70"-sized vehicle. I keep hearing rumors that Torslanda will build a "new" XC90, final facelift for plug-in hybrid, could this be it?)
V536 = EX90 (XC90 gen 3) SPA2, BEV
V526 = 2nd gen XC90, SPA
V432 = V60, SPA
V431 = 3rd gen S60, SPA
V43X = V60CC, SPA
V436 = 3rd gen XC60, GPA/SEA
V426 = 2nd gen XC60, SPA
V317 = 1st gen C40, CMA
V316 = 1st gen XC40, CMA
V216 = EX30, PMA/SEA

Polestar models
P319, Polestar 4, PMA/SEA?
P519, Polestar 3, SPA2

 

[rfkuehn]

Time for an update...

First letter, brand
V = Volvo
P = Polestar

First digit, size
3 = Small
5 = Large
6 = Xtra large

Second digit, generation
1-N

Third digit, type
1 = Sedan
2 = Estate
6 = SUV
7 = Coupe SUV
X = Cross Country

Volvo models
V616 = EX100, MPV on PMA/SEA
V551 = Next gen S90, hints found on LinkedIn
V542 = V90, SPA
V541 = S90, SPA
V54X = V90CC, SPA
V546 = EX90 Excellence (I'm a bit confused by this rumored internal code, I don't believe it's an "EX70"-sized vehicle. I keep hearing rumors that Torslanda will build a "new" XC90, final facelift for plug-in hybrid, could this be it?)
V536 = EX90 (XC90 gen 3) SPA2, BEV
V526 = 2nd gen XC90, SPA
V432 = V60, SPA
V431 = 3rd gen S60, SPA
V43X = V60CC, SPA
V436 = 3rd gen XC60, GPA/SEA
V426 = 2nd gen XC60, SPA
V317 = 1st gen C40, CMA
V316 = 1st gen XC40, CMA
V216 = EX30, PMA/SEA

Polestar models
P319, Polestar 4, PMA/SEA?
P519, Polestar 3, SPA2

Always enjoy these laydowns, thanks. A few comments...

V616 = EX100, MPV on PMA/SEA => 'EX100' name a reliable rumor or speculation?

V546 = EX90 Excellence (I'm a bit confused by this rumored internal code, I don't believe it's an "EX70"-sized vehicle. I keep hearing rumors that Torslanda will build a "new" XC90, final facelift for plug-in hybrid, could this be it?) => My understanding is that V546 (~EX70) would shoot gap between EX90 and EX60 (similar to XC90-70-60 lineup once did) - thinking Volvo's 2-row counterpart to P*3, also SPA2, production version of Concept Recharge. Excellence seems more like an exotic trim line, kind of doubt it would get a new/unique code; kind of like Grand Wagoneer?
V536 = EX90 (XC90 gen 3) SPA2, BEV
V526 = 2nd gen XC90, SPA => I would guess no new code for upcoming 2nd facelift, presumably for MY24 / Year 9 of production (wow).

=>V4xx = 'Medium' or 'Intermediate'?
V436 = 3rd gen XC60, GPA/SEA => Intended for Gothenburg megacasting? Might be my MY30 OSD target.

=> Nothing V326/V327 in the pipeline as nextgen for 40s?

V216 = EX30, PMA/SEA => V2xx = 'Very Small'?

 

[TurboJonte]

Always enjoy these laydowns, thanks. A few comments...

Thanks, I enjoy it too!

V616 = EX100, MPV on PMA/SEA => 'EX100' name a reliable rumor or speculation?

XC100 has been rumored for some time, I don't have my own source so I thought EX100 seemed logic.

V546 = EX90 Excellence (I'm a bit confused by this rumored internal code, I don't believe it's an "EX70"-sized vehicle. I keep hearing rumors that Torslanda will build a "new" XC90, final facelift for plug-in hybrid, could this be it?) => My understanding is that V546 (~EX70) would shoot gap between EX90 and EX60 (similar to XC90-70-60 lineup once did) - thinking Volvo's 2-row counterpart to P*3, also SPA2, production version of Concept Recharge. Excellence seems more like an exotic trim line, kind of doubt it would get a new/unique code; kind of like Grand Wagoneer?
V536 = EX90 (XC90 gen 3) SPA2, BEV

Since there's no real way of having a project name in between V436 and V536 for EX70 it maybe makes sense to use V546 anyhow? I don't know...

V526 = 2nd gen XC90, SPA => I would guess no new code for upcoming 2nd facelift, presumably for MY24 / Year 9 of production (wow).

No it does not make sense, same as V536 for EX70, I just wanted to have a discussion started.

=>V4xx = 'Medium' or 'Intermediate'?
V436 = 3rd gen XC60, GPA/SEA => Intended for Gothenburg megacasting? Might be my MY30 OSD target.

=> Nothing V326/V327 in the pipeline as nextgen for 40s?
V216 = EX30, PMA/SEA => V2xx = 'Very Small'?

 

[rfkuehn]

I keep hearing rumors that Torslanda will build a "new" XC90, final facelift for plug-in hybrid

Prior CEO said a 2nd refresh for XC90 was coming, "upgrading it so it looks a bit better" -

Love The Volvo XC90? It's Still Getting One More Refresh Before The Brand Goes All-EV - The Fast Lane Car (tflcar.com)

And supposedly dealers learned more about it early last year in Miami -

"showed off redesigned versions of the S90 and XC90 plug-in hybrids"

Volvo Shows Dealers Redesigned S90 And XC90, Tells Them Five EVs Coming | Carscoops

But a small mystery (at least to me) is whether the entire XC90 range gets the refresh, or just the PHEV? Perhaps the whole range, but with more differentiation added for the PHEV? Maybe some EX90-electrification cues?

 

[rfkuehn]

Since there's no real way of having a project name in between V436 and V536 for EX70 it maybe makes sense to use V546 anyhow? I don't know...

Thinking of EX90 and P*3 as counterparts. Then V546 would then be Volvo's 2-row counterpart to P*3 (which makes for a circular reference?). Figure all three on SPA2, so it makes sense for EX90 and 'EX70' to both be V5x6 cars. Volvo's 2-row V546 is seemingly counted as a nextgen EX90 in that scheme, even though its really the next SPA2 car.

Anything smaller than this this won't be on SPA2, such as V436 = 3rd gen XC60, GPA/SEA. So SPA2 and V5xx are kind of exclusive for each other.

Interesting that both of these are PMA/SEA -

V616 = EX100, MPV on PMA/SEA
V216 = EX30, PMA/SEA

 

[ChrisJB84]

Always enjoy these laydowns, thanks. A few comments...

V616 = EX100, MPV on PMA/SEA => 'EX100' name a reliable rumor or speculation?

V546 = EX90 Excellence (I'm a bit confused by this rumored internal code, I don't believe it's an "EX70"-sized vehicle. I keep hearing rumors that Torslanda will build a "new" XC90, final facelift for plug-in hybrid, could this be it?) => My understanding is that V546 (~EX70) would shoot gap between EX90 and EX60 (similar to XC90-70-60 lineup once did) - thinking Volvo's 2-row counterpart to P*3, also SPA2, production version of Concept Recharge. Excellence seems more like an exotic trim line, kind of doubt it would get a new/unique code; kind of like Grand Wagoneer?
V536 = EX90 (XC90 gen 3) SPA2, BEV
V526 = 2nd gen XC90, SPA => I would guess no new code for upcoming 2nd facelift, presumably for MY24 / Year 9 of production (wow).

=>V4xx = 'Medium' or 'Intermediate'?
V436 = 3rd gen XC60, GPA/SEA => Intended for Gothenburg megacasting? Might be my MY30 OSD target.

=> Nothing V326/V327 in the pipeline as nextgen for 40s?

V216 = EX30, PMA/SEA => V2xx = 'Very Small'?

If Volvo is able to faithfully replicate the Concept Recharge into production. I would be an interested buyer in a few years time. (Disclaimer: of course outside factors like it doesn't cost an arm and leg and all that stuff)

Mute the video if you don't understand the language (I don't, lol). Cause this is one of the few in person video of the concept available. Deceptively low slung and WIDEEE, love those stance.

 

[rfkuehn]

If Volvo is able to faithfully replicate the Concept Recharge into production. I would be an interested buyer in a few years time. (Disclaimer: of course outside factors like it doesn't cost an arm and leg and all that stuff)

Mute the video if you don't understand the language (I don't, lol). Cause this is one of the few in person video of the concept available. Deceptively low slung and WIDEEE, love those stance.

I think you can mash Concept Recharge design cues onto P*3 for a good sense re: V564.

Akin to how XC70 positioned vs XC60 and XC90. But did that VCC get much volume in its day?

 

[northcar]

If Volvo is able to faithfully replicate the Concept Recharge into production. I would be an interested buyer in a few years time. (Disclaimer: of course outside factors like it doesn't cost an arm and leg and all that stuff)

Mute the video if you don't understand the language (I don't, lol). Cause this is one of the few in person video of the concept available. Deceptively low slung and WIDEEE, love those stance.

Maybe they will hold it to a hand and a foot?

Thanks for posting. Definitely a refined prototype with the opening doors and interior finish and not simply an artist's rendering.

 

[Token]

The design of new cars is dated before they begin. Dated in the sense that they are unremarkable other than bring futuristic. Where has real classic car design gone? The beautiful lines of 90s cars with real buttons and driver focussed cockpits were something else. New cars are sparse with screens and edges. They don't feel good or luxurious. All the same boxes.