Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (nevolvo)

Lease the 335.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (nevolvo)

Quote, originally posted by nevolvo »

My lease for the 04' S60R GT is up in May. I test drove the 335 and the 530 and am having a lot of trouble justifying another R. The 335XI and 535XI will be here in April and should be amazing. Am I missing something here? Any opinions and guidance would be most appreciated.

I have the same situation with my R, that being the lease ends in May. I haven't decided what to go with yet, and the 335 looks great, but will cost a small fortune. NJ doesn't get enough snow, nor do I do much winter driving where I really need the AWD so I will be looking for RWD cars and I want something that will handle it bit better without the possibility of warranty issues. The only problem I forsee with the 335, like the R is that the first model year could be the most trouble-filled. Given that BMW hasn't had a gas-powered turbo stateside in many years, this could be an issue. Also, BMW has had terrible lease rates recently and you'll be paying over $600 a month for an AWD version with a few options. You may be better served with the 535XI as far as lease rates go, but it just doesn't look as good as the 335.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (nevolvo)

Quote, originally posted by nevolvo »

Am I missing something here?

Nope....well, not as far as the 335xi is concerned.

The 535xi, however, is better compared to the S80 V8 AWD in terms of price, options, size, etc. Despite what others may suggest, the 5 series and S60s were never intened compete in the same segment. If you're leaning towards a 535xi, you should take a few minutes to drive the new S80.

-Eric

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Vipergtsz3)

Quote, originally posted by Vipergtsz3 »

haven't decided what to go with yet, and the 335 looks great, but will cost a small fortune.

I'm not sure what makes you think that. When I priced out the 335xi coupe (which BMW generally prices higher than the sedan), it came out about the same as an R.

-Eric

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (nevolvo)

No manual transmissions available for the 535xi, at least until next Fall. I don't know about the 335xi.

The 3-series is a little tight for me, but I'm a big guy. The V70 has 2" more legroom (per the bean-counters at Consumer Reports) than the 3 series. They also complain that the 3 series console intrudes, and there isn't much headroom.

The prices I've been getting on the 230HP 328iT are a little more than the deeply discounted last-of-the-Rs. The 335i is significantly pricier, and there is no wagon available. If you compare sticker price to sticker price the S60R and 335xi look similar, but they aren't.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (bill d cat)

Quote, originally posted by bill d cat »

If you compare sticker price to sticker price the S60R and 335xi look similar, but they aren't.

I'm assuming you mean because of discounts on the R. But, while both cars allegedly have 300hp, one really has a lot more. And, that car will also retain its value much better. It is also based on a 2007 platform as opposed to 2001 technology.

IMHO, if you can't justify the extra cash upfront, don't really care about resale, then stick with the R. If you can, you'll be well (if not better) served by the Bimmer. Oh, and not that its THAT big of a deal but maintenance is completely free for the 335xi (including brake pads and wipers).

-Eric

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Sue Esponte)

Quote, originally posted by Sue Esponte »

Oh, and not that its THAT big of a deal but maintenance is completely free for the 335xi (including brake pads and wipers). -Eric

Not that big of a deal until you look at BMW dealer rates...they make Volvo rates look cheap!

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Sue Esponte)

Quote, originally posted by Sue Esponte »

I'm assuming you mean because of discounts on the R.

Yes. I've received an '07 V70R quote of *thousands* below invoice. I've heard of nobody who's received a quote below invoice for an '07 3-series. At below invoice for the R vs. invoice plus for the Bimmer, the V70R is less than the 328iT. I'm also not too sure about the depreciation. Based on http://www.kbb.com/ and the anticipated transaction cost of either (not the "sticker" price) it looks like the V70R's depreciation sucks, but so does 3-series depreciation.

Since I'm telecommuting, and now drive (maybe) 400 miles a month, it's difficult to justify a $40k car that's mostly going to sit in the driveway. If I need to have something sitting in the driveway, maybe I'd be happier looking at a 993 cab from the outside rather than a Bangle-ized Bimmer.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Sue Esponte)

Quote, originally posted by Sue Esponte »

Oh, and not that its THAT big of a deal but maintenance is completely free for the 335xi (including brake pads and wipers). -Eric

I made it to 67,000 miles on the Volvo's original front pads. Free wiper blades would be nice, but unless they send someone out to my house to replace them, it's cheaper for me to replace them myself. (Because of the time wasted at the dealer.)

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Sue Esponte)

Quote, originally posted by Sue Esponte »

I'm not sure what makes you think that. When I priced out the 335xi coupe (which BMW generally prices higher than the sedan), it came out about the same as an R. -Eric

The deals on the R bring the prices down to the mid to high 30's. The BMW is at least 6K more when you have it comparably equipped. I built a 335i coupe at the BMW site with just the metallic paint, leather and sport package (no auto trans) and it was $45K and change. Looking at the cost difference between the 328i and 328Xi coupes, you can figure on adding about $2K more for a total price of $47K for the 335Xi. I leased my R, but the cost to purchase it was something like 36,500. To me, that's a big difference now. Even if the R was $40K after incentives, that 7 thousand is a big difference, now you're in S4 territory all over again, which was one of the reasons so many people went with the R.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (needsdecaf)

Quote, originally posted by needsdecaf »

Not that big of a deal until you look at BMW dealer rates...they make Volvo rates look cheap!

yea, but Volvo dealers could potentially be hazardous to your vehicle.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (bill d cat)

Blue Book value is more or less meaningless.

The fact that you can get an R under invoice is what kills our resale value. The fact that you can't get a 3 series under invoice is one of the factors that helps the 3. Regardless, if you think seriously think the 3 series depreciates as badly as the R, you might want to spend some time with your nose in the "For Sale" section of your local paper.

Moreover, while you may not be able to rationalize spending $40K on a sedan that will sit in your driveway for most of the year, your limited commute and distaste of Bangle's design have nothing to do with facts of performance, handling, and resale.

Personally, I chose the R over the S4 because I couldn't justify the S4's $10K premium for its nominal performance benefits. And, IMHO, out of the box, the S4 is the better performer...but, I couldn't really care less about that. The R offers more exclusivity (I see dozens of S4s for every R), the R's interior is nicer and far more comfortable, my wife thinks the S4 looks like a bar of soap, and the R makes better use of a chip (since its a turbo). Oh, and I guess you could also add, that I didn't love the idea of spending $50K+ on a car that I was going rack up heavy mileage on as my commuter car!

As for the R vs. 335xi, you can get into a well equipped 335xi for about $43K (and the sedan WILL be cheaper). Without a chip, it puts out about 350hp and with a Dinan tune...it will decimate most OE cars in its path. There's no quirky 4C that requires you to upgrade springs and the coupe, at least, offers some different leather color options. There will always be the exclusivity counter-argument, as I'm already starting to see 328s and 335s on the roads. But, while exclusivity is nice, the R's resale value does a good job at erasing that perceived value.

-Eric

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Vipergtsz3)

Quote, originally posted by Vipergtsz3 »

The deals on the R bring the prices down to the mid to high 30's.

If you base your decision entirely on front end pricing, you can't help but come out in favor of an R. I've never argued that the Bimmer is cheaper but I didn't buy an R just because it was priced right. It had a combination of features (including price) that I appreciated. In today's market, Volvo's competitors have all recently pushed their "base" sedans beyond the S60R.

Back in '04, the 330xi and A4 3.0Q used to make ~225hp. Even the G35x only made ~260hp. The R topped them all. At 300hp, it topped the S60 line and played with the big boys (M3 and S4). This is simply no longer true.

On the otherhand, the V70R's only real competition is the S4 Avant and, maybe, a Dodge Magnum SRT8 if you squint your eyes and distort your face...a lot.

-Eric

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Sue Esponte)

Quote, originally posted by Sue Esponte »

As for the R vs. 335xi, you can get into a well equipped 335xi for about $43K (and the sedan WILL be cheaper). Without a chip, it puts out about 350hp and with a Dinan tune...it will decimate most OE cars in its path. -Eric

There is no "Dinan" tune available for the 335i, they are working on the map, schedule launching of soft is late June. and it's going to co$t you, but it comes with "Dinan's" warranty which is equivalent to the factory warranty. BTW projected hp around 450.

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (cloaked)

Quote, originally posted by cloaked »

There is no "Dinan" tune available for the 335i, they are working on the map, schedule launching of soft is late June...

I know - my bad - I realize it sounded like it was out already. My point was simply that in stock form its an R beater and since its a TWIN TURBO, with a Dinan tune it will absolutely destroy it.

450hp, huh? SWEET!

-Eric

 

My buddie already has the 335I. The car has so many bells and whistles but it also comes with a price tag of almost twice of that of the S60R fully loaded. It also does not have all wheel drive. It does beat my stock R but it is also a rear wheel drive car with twin turbo. When it comes to the turns and excellerating through and out of a hard turn I take him over. As long as it is cool out and we are on the highway I can keep up. Take off I am done but once again look at the price tag.

 

Re: (Marine)

Quote, originally posted by Marine »

My buddie already has the 335I. The car has so many bells and whistles but it also comes with a price tag of almost twice of that of the S60R fully loaded.

It does?

Quote, originally posted by Marine »

It also does not have all wheel drive.

It will very soon.

 

Re: (MagoonR)

Quote, originally posted by MagoonR »

It does?

Of course -- haven't you seen the $80k 335is lurking around every corner?

 

Re: (MagoonR)

Quote, originally posted by MagoonR »

It does?

yah...didn't you get the memo....they figured since its got the BMW badge on it, they will sell it for $80k

....I just built a new 335I FULLY loaded: "Total price as built*
$51,144"

Of course the XI will be more, but not double

 

Re: (phuz)

Quote, originally posted by phuz »

....I just built a new 335I FULLY loaded: "Total price as built* $51,144"

Are you gonna buy it? Huh huh?

Oooops, forgot that you want a Neon.

 

Re: (Marine)

Quote, originally posted by Marine »

The car has so many bells and whistles but it also comes with a price tag of almost twice of that of the S60R fully loaded.

No offense, but you're talking out of your arse...

335i Base MSRP $38,700
Metallic Paint $475
Packages/Options:
Sport Package $1,600
STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission $1,275
Paddle Shifters $100
Active Steering $1,250
Premium Package $2,450
Cold Weather Package $1,000
Comfort Access $500
Active Cruise Control $2,200
On-Board Navigation System w/iDrive $2,100
Power Rear Sunshade/Rear Manual Side Window Shades $575
Satellite Radio $595
Park Distance Control (rear) $350

If you add every possible option on the car, you're looking at a retail price of $53,865 with destination.

An S60R on the otherhand...

Base MSRP $38,985
Metallic Paint $475
Premium Package $2,400
Climate Package $600
Volvo Navigation System and Sirius Satellite Radio Preparation $2,120
Park Assist, Rear $400
Interior Air Quality System (IAQS) $200
6-Speed "Geartronic" $1,250
Sport Body Package $1,995

If you add every possible option on the car, you're looking at a retail price of $50,115 with destination.

Somehow I don't see $3-4K as "twice the price". And, to all those who are going to whine "but that's not what you're going to pay for an R": That's also not what you're going to pay for the Bimmer AND the Bimmer won't lose 50% of its resale value in 24 months.

As for overtaking him in turns...that's either the difference in driver skills or in how comfortable he was in pushing his new car so hard into a corner.

-Eric

 

Re: The BMW 335XI and 535XI question. (Sue Esponte)

Quote, originally posted by Sue Esponte »

I know - my bad - I realize it sounded like it was out already. My point was simply that in stock form its an R beater and since its a TWIN TURBO, with a Dinan tune it will absolutely destroy it. 450hp, huh? SWEET! -Eric

Here's my question, and I apoligize that it is a little off topic. These 335's are so potent in stock trim, and with a chip they dominate. BMW is going to have to make the M3 so tremendous that people won't choose the 335's as a cheaper, but similar option. I just got my R and look forward to the next few years, but I'm crossing my fingers that a ZHP 335i sedan will be available in 2010.

 

Re: (phuz)

Quote, originally posted by phuz »

Of course the XI will be more, but not double

xDrive adds like $2K to the cost of a car.

-Eric

 

it wasn't until i did this built-a-bimmer that i noticed bmw has a black sapphire metallic too

hmmm

which came first

 

Re: (phuz)

Quote, originally posted by phuz »

hmmm which came first

The chicken. Or was it the egg. I forget.