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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today my wife and I said farewell to Volvo and more specifically our beloved 2000 S70 GLT SE. After unrelenting repairs literally month after month we traded our beautiful Moondust S70 in on an as beautiful 2009 Toyota Venza crossover. It may sound sappy but after owning first an 850 then the S70 Volvo's were a part of our family.<p>The straw that finally broke the camels back was this past weeks heater core failure plus the blunt reality that the sales group at our dealer "Volvo of Richardson" (Richardson, TX (Dallas)) had little interest in our 15 year relationship. Of all the car makes that we considered our own Volvo dealer told us that our 10 year old 130K mile S70 GLT SE was of extremely little value. To us it seems as if Volvo has abandoned the Volvo for life concept.<p>I will say that it is highly unlikely that we will ever have the partner type relationship we had with our service adviser with whom we have turned to time and time again over those 15 years.<p>To illustrate our dismay over the heater core I priced the needed work at three Volvo dealers. Our dealer initially quoted the job at $997, the second dealer at $900 and the third dealer at an shocking price of $1900. After discussing our distress with our trusted service adviser, Volvo of Richardson offered to do the job for $480! In closing the conversation with our adviser I asked him what would be next to fail. In response he sadly stated he could not say but that time would tell. For all the money the we have spent keeping our beloved S70 on the road over the years we could have instead supported in need families with all the necessities to lead a decent life.<p>In closing I would like to thank Swedespeed for providing me with timely and accurate information about our S70 GLT SE. Thank you all, especially JRL.<p>Sincerely,<br>Louis Patrick
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

Me and my wife have been thinking of doing the same thing. Our 2001 V70 T5 is dearly loved, but wow, expensive to keep on the road (alternator just went dead). We are contemplating a Venza as a replacement. If you happen to check back after awhile please give us an assessment of your new Venza. All the best to you.<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Thank You & Farewell (draken)

I sure will get back with a reply after a bit of experience with the Venza.
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

Just read an article on Forbes.com about the most expensive cars to maintain and guess what? Volvo was no where on the list. Before all the snipers on SS get worked up into a frothy tither lets all realize that sometimes you may be better off with the "enemy you know" rather than the one you don't.<p>In general I think consumers feel their cars are always worth more than they really are because the car becomes part of the family and it carries much sentimental value. The fact that I see this daily on the sales floor I feel is a testament to the Volvo for Life philosophy and the great job that many professional sales and service advisors do in fostering the family values and feel of our retailers. <p>I recently took in the same car mentioned above on trade with half the miles and a bad Car Fax report due to a rear end collision and the value was $3500. That for a car that is 10 years old and cost about $30,000 brand new. Roughly speaking in ten years the car has lost 90% of its orignal value. The car that replaced the S70, the S60, is now in SE mode and is out of production, soon to be replaced by a new S60. How many other brands out there would even offer someone over $1000 for a 10 year old car that is 2 generations old now? I can only think of one, maybe Honda.<p>I realize the S70 did not have the best realiability over the years but I bet that car with 130k miles still shined up nicely and ran well (when it wasn't in the shop) and still protected you and your family with better safety systems than half the cars being produced today could ever hope to.<p>Good luck with your first year Venza.
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>justice</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>The straw that finally broke the camels back was this past weeks heater core failure plus the blunt reality that the sales group at our dealer "Volvo of Richardson" (Richardson, TX (Dallas)) had little interest in our 15 year relationship. Of all the car makes that we considered our own Volvo dealer told us that our 10 year old 130K mile S70 GLT SE was of extremely little value. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>What did they offer you for the S70,and what Volvo were you considering?<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>justice</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> To us it seems as if Volvo has abandoned the Volvo for life concept. </TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0"> What exactly does this have to do with negotiating to buy a new car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Thank You & Farewell (VolvoMax)

We were considering the new XC60. Volvo's initial trade-in offer was to be $1000 but may have gone up to $2000. Toyota gave us a true trade-in allowance of $2500. What I mean by true is that the trade-in allowance had no muniplated impact on the cost of the Venza.<p>This dealerships sales group had only one true knowledgeable salesman with the rest being a mixture of here today gone tomorrow transit salespeople and true novices. This sales group now uses the old time four square sales transaction worksheet where the customer is many times misled regarding trade-in allowance and vehicle discounts. In fact the only veteran salesman (who had become a friend over these past 15 years) warned me about how their Nigeran sales manager had forced the sales group to make the sale regardless of method or negative impact on the customer.<p>My point about the Volvo for life comment was to illustrate how much this dealer had changed since we purchased our first 850 and then the S70. Since purchasing the S70 the sales group evolved into the typical American car sales group. Everything was about the almighty dollar with little to no concern about maintaining life long customers. To put it simply they, in my opinion, have the sell you the car get you out of the dealership and they are done with you left to sort out the future.<p>The only shining star at this dealer was as I stated the service and parts group. Honest, loyal and always willing to give the customer a fair shake.<p>Regardless of all the love we had for our S70 the unreliabilty of its parts and systems the car cost far more to maintain and repair that any sensible person would bear. My neighbor ask me to sell her our S70 GLT SE for $3500 but I refused to sell it you her at any price knowing that it immediately needed a new heater core with more anticipated breakdowns to come.<p>By the way you have a beautiful S60, well done.<p>Regards,<br>Louis
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

If the service department was easy to deal with and treated you fairly I do not see why you didn't just go to another Volvo dealer to buy the car. <p>Sounds more like cutting your nose off to spite your face. <p>Maybe you just wanted something different or couldn't afford the XC60 which is selling at very crisp pace with little to no cash incentives being offered. <p>Either way I am surprised the Toyota sales department didn't scare you off. All my dealings with Toyota showrooms have been worse than domestic brands. Talk about 4-square and sell at any cost tactics. I would never step foot in another Toyota showroom as long as I live.
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (gabepv544)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gabepv544</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In general I think consumers feel their cars are always worth more than they really are because the car becomes part of the family and it carries much sentimental value. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>In general, I think that dealers feel that their cars are worth more than they really are because........(you can fill in the blank).<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gabepv544</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Either way I am surprised the Toyota sales department didn't scare you off. All my dealings with Toyota showrooms have been worse than domestic brands. Talk about 4-square and sell at any cost tactics. I would never step foot in another Toyota showroom as long as I live.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Funny.........didn't have that problem when we bought the RAV. I laid out an "out the door" number and said "if you can get there, we'll do the deal. otherwise, thanks for your time". Needless to say, I researched invoice, incentives, wholesale values, etc before time in order to come up with my number. Also canvassed a few of the other area dealers that had the car we wanted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Thank You & Farewell (MagoonR)

After buying cars for so many years I was totally surprised by our experience at Toyota. I also size up dearlers before even talking to them about a car. Metroplex Toyota definitely has a very customer sensitive approach about them.<p>About other Volvo dealers in Dallas, they are all well away from our home so that and our doubts about any Volvo's LONG term reliability really were the deciding factors. Of course the cost and no discounts on the X60 were also present in our minds but was not a true deterrent. In fact with the Venza being the newest non-hybrid technology vehicle from Toyota also meant little discount and no specials of any sort.<p>Thank you for your response.
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

Well, a $500 difference on a trade isn't that much. I think the range was correct.<br>Sometimes an off brand store will put more money in a car because they just don't know any better.<br>As for the Volvo dealer, it is part of a national chain and the entire chain operates that way. They had a Volvo franchise here but the customers rebelled against their sales practices so they gave it up. Obviously they didn't learn.<br>On the other hand, it is very very difficult to train and retain truly good salespeople. Like big time athletes they want to go where they can make the big bucks.<br>I think the real reason here is money. The AWD Venza's base price is $10k less than the XC60 T6. I just don't think you were prepared to spend that much more for a car with the rest of the experience as icing on the cake.<br>Had you gone with the Q5, X3 or GLK I would think that your issues with Volvo indeed drove you to another brand. However, leaving the luxury level altogether is usually indicative of a desire to save money.<br>The Venza is a nice car, I hope you enjoy it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Thank You & Farewell (VolvoMax)

Thank you for your reply Max.<p>Off Brand? Toyota? Toyota is not an off brand by any stretch of the imagination. The first Toyota was manufactured in 1936 with the first Volvo coming along a scant 9 years earlier in 1927.<p>As for your comments regarding costs of a luxury cossover versus a non-luxury vehicle you are absolutely correct. At this point in our life we are not willing to take on the challenge of owning and maintaining a MB, BMW or especially a Volvo. As we all know all three of these brands are and, unless something really changes, will continue to be high maintence vehicles especially as they reach high mileage. <p>I also agree in general about automobile sales groups. What is very funny to me is how all the car makers now have used car pricing guide links on their web sites. Across the board our 2000 S70 GLT SE was worth at least $3200 in good condition. I take each of these pricing sites forecast with a grain of salt. In my heart I knew how beautiful our Volvo was while at the same time knowing the sheer hell is required to keep it in excellent condition.<p>Again, thank you for you very interesting comments.
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>justice</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you for your reply Max.<p>Off Brand? Toyota? Toyota is not an off brand by any stretch of the imagination. The first Toyota was manufactured in 1936 with the first Volvo coming along a scant 9 years earlier in 1927.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>What Max meant, by "off brand", was a term used when a dealer selling one brand is appraising/selling a different brand. Nothing demeaning! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> A Volvo is an off brand vehicle to a Toyota appraiser/seller while a Toyota is an off brand vehicle for a Volvo appraiser/seller.<p>
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (justice)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>justice</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you for your reply Max.<p>Off Brand? Toyota? Toyota is not an off brand by any stretch of the imagination. The first Toyota was manufactured in 1936 with the first Volvo coming along a scant 9 years earlier in 1927.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't believe I used that term. however, Toyota is not a luxury brand. Toyota has a luxury brand, Lexus.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>justice</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>As for your comments regarding costs of a luxury cossover versus a non-luxury vehicle you are absolutely correct. At this point in our life we are not willing to take on the challenge of owning and maintaining a MB, BMW or especially a Volvo. As we all know all three of these brands are and, unless something really changes, will continue to be high maintence vehicles especially as they reach high mileage. .</TD></TR></TABLE><p>So, is it safe to assume that even if your shopping experience at Volvo was what you had hoped for, you probably still wouldn't have bought one?
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (VolvoMax)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>VolvoMax</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the real reason here is money. The AWD Venza's base price is $10k less than the XC60 T6. I just don't think you were prepared to spend that much more for a car with the rest of the experience as icing on the cake. Had you gone with the Q5, X3 or GLK I would think that your issues with Volvo indeed drove you to another brand. However, leaving the luxury level altogether is usually indicative of a desire to save money.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Ummm.....he already mentioned the travel distance to the nearest dealer as a factor. Also rather presumptious of you to claim that it was all about price. How dare anyone willingly leave the "luxury" segment for anything other than price. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>There are many reasons one enters or leaves.....and price may be a factor (but not the only factor).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Thank You & Farewell (VolvoMax)

I misunderstood how you were using the phrase "off brand". Another member just clarifed that for me. Please excuse my misunderstanding.<p>Due to the high cost of long term ownership with Volvo during our final evaluations they were not considered.<p>I also totally agree with you that Toyota certainly is not a luxury brand. Now with that said, their new top of the line vehicles are very luxurious they are by no means a luxury vehicle. I would term our Venza a extremely nice consumer grade automobile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Thank You & Farewell (MagoonR)

Thank you for reminding me about distance from the dealer. We live approximately 33 miles from our Volvo dealer whereas we are now only approximately 3-4 miles from our new Toyota dealer.<p>In closing, things in life are very often about more real life than status.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Lev,<br>I regret my last remarks were two general in scope and overly negative toward luxury brands. I also regret that they disturbed you and any other member of this forum. So that no one else is offended I have deleted the entire reply. <p>Louis<p><br><i>Modified by justice at 8:05 AM 7-4-2009</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by justice at 8:06 AM 7-4-2009</i>
 

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Re: Thank You & Farewell (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Ummm.....he already mentioned the travel distance to the nearest dealer as a factor. Also rather presumptious of you to claim that it was all about price. How dare anyone willingly leave the "luxury" segment for anything other than price. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>There are many reasons one enters or leaves.....and price may be a factor (but not the only factor).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sorry, don't buy travel distance. You go there once to buy the car and maybe once or twice a year for service. It isn't like you are commuting there every day.<br>As for leaving a luxury brand, 99.9% of the time price IS the determining factor.<br>People are creatures of habit, esp luxury car buyers. there are reasons people shop at Nordstroms instead of K-Mart and drink coffee from Starbucks instead of Circle K.<br>I've been doing this a long time and have a pretty good grip on the motivations of car buyers.
 
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