SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I start the engine on my V70 2.4T, and only after it has been stood for a day or more, I get what sounds like a single lazy tappet (lifter) for a second or so before the sound fades out. Tap tap tap tap tap tap. I'm sure my 2003 has solid tappets, not hydraulic ones, in which case it's not a lazy oil seal.

The question is, what can it then be?

I have owned the 60k miles car from new and this is something that has developed in the past year or so. The noise persisted either side of a recent Volvo dealer service at which the oil and filter were changed, and as mentioned, it only happens when the card has been stood for a day or more.

Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Re: Tappet (lifter) noise (Borehamovi)

What is your mileage?

On the white block engines, there is a situation that will eventually occur, but I don't think it happens until over 100,00 miles, normally.

The oil seals between the pan and the intermediate section of the engine have a habit of going bad after a few years, and it is because they get hard and start to crack, and when they do, the start to allow a bit of air into the oil. The first sign that you would see, if you are looking, is for a bunch of very small bubbles in your oil when you check the dipstick. The next sign is normally lifter noise, and then it gradually gets worse. Eventually, the engine stays noisy, and then you are on the verge of having engine failure, particularly rod bearing failure, due to the lack of proper lubrication, from all the air in the oil.

If this is your problem, check the oil immediately after you stop the engine, and look for VERY small bubbles in the oil. If so, the solution is not fun, but very effective: remove the pan, and have the seals replaced. Had that done recently because I started seeing the bubbles, and the mechanic said the seals were starting to crack. This is a pain in the butt, because the pan is an almost, but not quite easy removal process. You have to bend some brackets out of the way on the cross member, and when the pan is removed, it must be absolutely clean, and no oil on the pan or engine mating surfaces, or the sealant will NOT seal, and you get immediate oil leaks.

My mechanic ALWAYS cleans the pan out when he does this, because engines that have seen oil changes with the Volvo recommended intervals typically have a ton of crud in the bottom of the pan, and he says it takes hours, literally, to clean the pan sometimes, aside from taking about an hour to get all the oil from the engine and get the pan mating surface clean.

Usually, this doesn't happen at your low mileage, and the problem gradually gets worse, and your situation doesn't seem to match what normally happens when this problem occurs.

Another potential problem is that you have a crud build-up in the engine, and you have varnish buildup on the one lifter. Haven't heard that being a problem very often at all, since these engines seem to have a decent oiling system, it is just the heat and extended oil changes that cause problems for them.

Be very certain it is a lifter, the injectors always make some noise, and sometimes, without having something to listen carefully with, it is hard to tell if it is the injector or the lifter that is making noise. Can't suggest a solution if it is an injector, except to ask of the engine runs roughly for a few seconds after you start and it makes this noise. If so, check your injection system, and see if the system hold pressure. I had a problem with increasingly hard starts, and sometimes it sounded a bit noisy at first, and it was a couple of injectors leaking just a little bit, and that gradually released the pressure in the system, and the pump had to pressurize the system first, befure there was enough fuel pressure to actually properly run the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Tappet (wizzard_al)

Thank you, wizzard_al, for taking the time to describe a potential cause in some detail. I will look for bubbles the next time I park up the car at home.

In case it helps diagnosis; I started the car from cold last night after it had rested for over 24 hours; the tap tap tap was apparent for a second or so as usual. I then wedged a piece of wood on the throttle pedal and brought the revs up to stabilize at about 1600RPM; well above tickover but no to fast as to drown out all incidental noises with bonnet ( hood
) open and listening close to the cylinder head. I could hear a faint tickitickitickit that appeared to be coming from one precise place just behind the oil filler cap and which was quite different from the mechanical symphony of the valvegear in general. Noise travels rather well in solid materials so sources can be misleading, but it was not injector clatter - that was a distinct, and "faster" racket.

Anyway, bubbles report to come!

[Edited to clarify one sentence]

Modified by Borehamovi at 3:18 PM 3-23-2009
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: (Impulse922)

Well, wizzard_al, yes there are bubbles. After an extended drive I found a group of large (2-3mm) bubbles directly right at the top of the oil line on the dip stick. ie where there is surface tension.

This morning however, I started the engine from cold and ran it for 20 seconds before shutting down. This time there were no large bubbles but dozens and dozens of pin-prick bubbles. They actually looked like tiny specs of dirt until I watched them gradually disperse.

My local Volvo dealer tells me to quit worrying and just drive the car ("There is nothing to worry about") but plainly something has changed so even if I don't worry I want to find out what it is. It would be great to compare with someone else's equivalent engine and see if the tiny bubbles are as unexpected as suggested, please.

Impulse922 - I just opened my Haynes manual to try and see if my engine has solid or hydraulic tappets. It seems the former as I thought. At the foot of Page 2A.1 (Intro to petrol engine in-car repair procedures) describing valve clearances: "Except for the following engines which have hydraulic tappets: B5204 T, B5234 T, and B5244 T up to and including 2002 model year"

Mine is 2003 model year with B5244T3, so solid tappets.

[Text edited once with today's update established since this post was first made and then a second time to confirm my engine model]

Modified by Borehamovi at 7:19 AM 3-30-2009

Modified by Borehamovi at 7:21 AM 3-30-2009
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
with the solid tappets, the ticking sound wouldnt be caused by inadaquate oil pressure at the (hydraulic) tappets leading to them ticking. However, these engines can still be affected by the oil pick up pipe O ring allowing air to be sucked into the oil aerating it. how long does the ticking sound last? Until the engine has warmed up significantly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: (Shimon)

Heard from inside the car the very audible tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap lasts about as long and with the same frequency as it takes to read that expression out loud at a reaonably brisk pace. I am therefore sure that if it is a tappet it is but one of them, not more. When the noise fades out it does so quickly. i.e I get one or two muted taps between loud taps and no taps at all. The sound is therefore consistent with oil supply, and because I have solid tappets I think it more likely that if it is a tappet it is a worn clearance for whatever reason.

With cold engine, the bonnet up, and listening very carefully whilst changing "ear focus" slowly and deliberately, there is a sweet spot in which one tap eminates from the rocker cover as part of the same rhythm as the valve gear but without the same sweet symphony if you get what I mean. It is a definite tap (actually a "tick") rather than tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack.

When the engine is warm there is no such tap, just tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack.

[Edited for clarity]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
unusual for just one to be affected. However, even though your car has solid tappets, there is an adjustment. You need special tools for it and volvo make them. Most dealers dont have the tools as needing to adjust the tappets is so rare!

worth asking a dealer to quote for checking tappet clearances? Sounds like they are still noisey even when warm. your diagnosis seems confident it is from within the camcover area so prob next step is dealer quote?

please keep us posted and good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
actually....you refer to aerated oil above so if that is going on then that could be the mechanism for one tappet or a some have less good lubrication than others. The bubbles would tend to dispense the further from the pump so the most worn part would be nearests to oil feed lines. Not intimately aware of the location of oil feeds in the head of the N series engines but the aeration fault can be solved via changing the oil pick up pipe O ring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: (Shimon)

Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
Sounds like they are still noisey even when warm

No. Sorry if I painted that picture. With bonnet up and engine warm everything about it sounds perfectly normal incuding the gentle tack-a-tack-a-tack-a-tack of all tappets going out their business. It is only when cold when something - and it appears to be one tappet - makes a noise out of tune with the others being more of a "tick".

Anyway, yes I'll post the outcome.

Cheers.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,517 Posts
Re: Tappet (lifter) noise (Borehamovi)

try other brand of fully synthetic oil, before you swap the oil try clean/burn the valves by keeping rpm's at least 5minutes +5000rpm's ... in 2nd gear you will not get caught speeding ... drain oil instandly after the 'cleaning'-run and fill proper fully synthetic oil like 'SHELL helix ultra".
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top