[Seti]

That one day we will have a battery bank ala cellphones one that will compress and store massive power enabling us to plug it in to recharge our Hybrid batteries to 50% in 30mins.

In that dream, the little storage under the boot was used to pack up a few such banks, and for over 6months, I never ever had to visit the gas station again. I woke up and and realised it's still the deep of the night, but soon and very soon, it shall be day and the dream shall be a reality and it will be good.

And all those who wish to see this dream come to pass join me and say "AMEN".

C'mon Elon Musk! Develop this Hybrid battery bank ASAP please

 

[phillipu]

That one day we will have a battery bank ala cellphones one that will compress and store massive power enabling us to plug it in to recharge our Hybrid batteries to 50% in 30mins.

In that dream, the little storage under the boot was used to pack up a few such banks, and for over 6months, I never ever had to visit the gas station again. I woke up and and realised it's still the deep of the night, but soon and very soon, it shall be day and the dream shall be a reality and it will be good.

And all those who wish to see this dream come to pass join me and say "AMEN".

C'mon Elon Musk! Develop this Hybrid battery bank ASAP please

He really already has. Tesla Supercharger stations can do pretty much exactly that with the models they're currently producing. Tesla and others are also working on competing high speed, fast charging DC stations that will be able to charge 200 miles in under ten minutes as I recall.

 

[Seti]

He really already has. Tesla Supercharger stations can do pretty much exactly that with the models they're currently producing. Tesla and others are also working on competing high speed, fast charging DC stations that will be able to charge 200 miles in under ten minutes as I recall.

Are they portable battery banks like cellphone's? Or are you referring to fixed ones? My wish is to have portable and relatively flatter battery banks storing up high charge that we can then whip out and plug in for that battery power boost.

Edit: The dream was about having one similar to this cellphone example:
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/283629735/5000mAh_Portable_Waterproof_Solar_Charger_Dual_USB_External_Battery_Power_Bank.html?gclid=CL-xrr-d9dMCFRO3Gwod8-YF3w

 

[phillipu]

Are they portable battery banks like cellphone's? Or are you referring to fixed ones? My wish is to have portable and relatively flatter battery banks storing up high charge that we can then whip out and plug in for that battery power boost.

Edit: The dream was about having one similar to this cellphone example:
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/283629735/5000mAh_Portable_Waterproof_Solar_Charger_Dual_USB_External_Battery_Power_Bank.html?gclid=CL-xrr-d9dMCFRO3Gwod8-YF3w

Tesla batteries can be swapped in a shop but they are far from portable. No one has yet commercialized a more compact means of storing large amounts of energy than the battery tech you see in leading edge vehicles like Teslas. But to store 200 miles of energy takes several hundred kilograms of batteries.

 

[Seti]

One day, and hopefully in my T8's lifetime, there will be to battery technology the equivalent of Moore's Law to computer chips

 

[VTbuckeye]

What the OP wants is another bigger battery that we keep in the trunk to charge the battery in the "transmission tunnel". Maybe a capacitor bank that can charge the battery that can then be used for electric drive with the battery acting as a buffer between the quick charge/discharge of the capacitor and the modest needs of electric drive.

 

[Seti]

What the OP wants is another bigger battery that we keep in the trunk to charge the battery in the "transmission tunnel". Maybe a capacitor bank that can charge the battery that can then be used for electric drive with the battery acting as a buffer between the quick charge/discharge of the capacitor and the modest needs of electric drive.

+1

Maybe let's crowd source funding and invest in such battery technology. Who knows.... SwedeSpeed Forumisters becoming $ gazillionaires

 

[Kighter]

If you're going to charge it and carry it, why not just have more in the car to begin with?

Or are we imagining a 3rd party battery to battery transfer device? That's a lot of weight to be lugging around...

 

[rrealm20]

I just wish that our batteries have the capability to fast charge like the Tesla's and future EV vehicles. I mean fully charge in 10 mins. That would be ideal.

 

[phillipu]

I just wish that our batteries have the capability to fast charge like the Tesla's and future EV vehicles. I mean fully charge in 10 mins. That would be ideal.

It would be nice especially considering how small the batteries are. If you're in an area with lots of chargers you could really extend that EV range quite a bit.

For me, I want a true 50-mile range plug-in or a full EV with ubiquitous fast charging. Since the charging networks to support my latter option aren't quite built out yet, I'll stick to the plug-ins for now. I do just enough trips to areas that are far enough from established charging networks or power at all that a short range EV is simply not an option for me and a long range EV that takes much more time than a typical gas station fill up is just too inconvenient for my current family situation.

 

[Kighter]

Fast charging is still limited. The battery chemistry is altered and the capacity is significantly reduced. So rather than let that happen, Teslas will prevent additional fast charging of certain types - FOR THE REMAINING LIFE OF THE VEHICLE.

Yes these are all great ideas, but some of this technology does not currently exist. You can be sure Elan is working on it.

 

[VolvoUhu]

I've been dreaming about this. I'm totally impressed and surprised that it's first introduced in a Hyundai and not in a premium vehicle given the cost of going LiOn for the starting battery. Surely Volvo and European OEM can come up with a better integrated solution. Even so, this manual solution should be the base expectation given the thought and sophistication of systems in a new XC90 T8.

How the Hyundai Ioniq Ditched Its Traditional 12V Lead-Acid Starter Battery

 

[Seti]

I've been dreaming about this. I'm totally impressed and surprised that it's first introduced in a Hyundai and not in a premium vehicle given the cost of going LiOn for the starting battery. Surely Volvo and European OEM can come up with a better integrated solution. Even so, this manual solution should be the base expectation given the thought and sophistication of systems in a new XC90 T8.

How the Hyundai Ioniq Ditched Its Traditional 12V Lead-Acid Starter Battery

Thanks for this. With this, I'm now more confident that soon and very soon, we're going to see a portable Hybrid Battery booster/ charger, small enough not to take up too much space, but effective enough to let us have a couple of them in the boot and recharge our batteries to extend battery range to 150KM. That would then delivery the factory's claimed 2L/100KM range. Shoudl that happen, the T8 will be the best and efficient long distance cruiser.

I can't wait to see the dream coming to pass

 

[rpmccormick]

I'm now more confident that soon and very soon, we're going to see a portable Hybrid Battery booster/ charger, small enough not to take up too much space, but effective enough to let us have a couple of them in the boot and recharge our batteries to extend battery range to 150KM. That would then delivery the factory's claimed 2L/100KM range. Shoudl that happen, the T8 will be the best and efficient long distance cruiser. I can't wait to see the dream coming to pass

In motoring terms, I don't think this is just around the corner. Maybe not a dream - I'm sure every manufacturer would like to attain this goal!

A LOT of the battery efficiency is based on temperature - so range will be very much tied to that. Let's talk about a best case:

150 km range? (For those metrically challenged - that is almost 100 miles.)

A couple of days ago I achieved 32+km on a single charge. This including driving some of that distance with the lights on - and all with airco on. Ambient air temp was 26C to 36C (we had a rare spring heatwave) - so that's some of where I obtained the battery efficiency (higher temps).

Let's say for round numbers that 32 km trip required 8.5 kW of power.

So to go 150 km (with the same conditions): 150/32 = 4.7 * 8.5 = 40 kW

That's a LOT of battery!

With today's battery technology - if you had a 40 kW battery in this vehicle - it would take almost 5 times as much volume and add significant weight ... probably to the point of exceeding design capacity (too much kg).

The Hyundai architecture is like what I think you're dreaming of: they have this BIG high voltage battery ... and they can use it to charge a small battery (say 4 to 6 litres). That's the same as a portable mobile device charger: the external battery probably holds 3 to 10 times the energy that your mobile device does.

I guess someone could make a 100 kg HV portable battery that you could put in the back of your T8 - not sure how much extra "juice" that's going to provide you. To even transfer a few kw of power - that portable battery is going to have to be fairly big.

I think we'd be better off with future batteries that pack more power in the same volume and mass (weight). Then you start to approach the problem with charging: how much time that takes. High voltage DC to DC charging reduces time - but is not widely available and as noted above, presents its own battery issues.

I'm currently running for the last few thousand miles about 85 MPG - so that's down in the 2.8 l/100 km range ... your eMPG may vary!

 

[Seti]

In motoring terms, I don't think this is just around the corner. Maybe not a dream - I'm sure every manufacturer would like to attain this goal!

A LOT of the battery efficiency is based on temperature - so range will be very much tied to that. Let's talk about a best case:

150 km range? (For those metrically challenged - that is almost 100 miles.)

A couple of days ago I achieved 32+km on a single charge. This including driving some of that distance with the lights on - and all with airco on. Ambient air temp was 26C to 36C (we had a rare spring heatwave) - so that's some of where I obtained the battery efficiency (higher temps).

Let's say for round numbers that 32 km trip required 8.5 kW of power.

So to go 150 km (with the same conditions): 150/32 = 4.7 * 8.5 = 40 kW

That's a LOT of battery!

With today's battery technology - if you had a 40 kW battery in this vehicle - it would take almost 5 times as much volume and add significant weight ... probably to the point of exceeding design capacity (too much kg).

The Hyundai architecture is like what I think you're dreaming of: they have this BIG high voltage battery ... and they can use it to charge a small battery (say 4 to 6 litres). That's the same as a portable mobile device charger: the external battery probably holds 3 to 10 times the energy that your mobile device does.

I guess someone could make a 100 kg HV portable battery that you could put in the back of your T8 - not sure how much extra "juice" that's going to provide you. To even transfer a few kw of power - that portable battery is going to have to be fairly big.

I think we'd be better off with future batteries that pack more power in the same volume and mass (weight). Then you start to approach the problem with charging: how much time that takes. High voltage DC to DC charging reduces time - but is not widely available and as noted above, presents its own battery issues.

I'm currently running for the last few thousand miles about 85 MPG - so that's down in the 2.8 l/100 km range ... your eMPG may vary!

Thanks a lot for this well thought through explanation.

My T8 has been excellent on short road trips to school and back. I have traveled over 500KM with just 1 quarter tank of fuel used because I charge it at intervals below 40KM. This is where the idea of power boost/ charge came from, as I noticed I hardly used fuel when I recharge after every 40KM. I then thought if I could at least have of the original charge as mobile capacity on demand charge, I could benefit greatly over longer distances.

I guess being Volvo's first hybrid, this is the best we could have ever had at this time and moment in our Volvo lives. Let's rejoice and hope for the best in the future now that Polestar has a mandate to work on Volvo's EVs

 

[phillipu]

In motoring terms, I don't think this is just around the corner. Maybe not a dream - I'm sure every manufacturer would like to attain this goal!

A LOT of the battery efficiency is based on temperature - so range will be very much tied to that. Let's talk about a best case:

150 km range? (For those metrically challenged - that is almost 100 miles.)

A couple of days ago I achieved 32+km on a single charge. This including driving some of that distance with the lights on - and all with airco on. Ambient air temp was 26C to 36C (we had a rare spring heatwave) - so that's some of where I obtained the battery efficiency (higher temps).

Let's say for round numbers that 32 km trip required 8.5 kW of power.

So to go 150 km (with the same conditions): 150/32 = 4.7 * 8.5 = 40 kW

That's a LOT of battery!

With today's battery technology - if you had a 40 kW battery in this vehicle - it would take almost 5 times as much volume and add significant weight ... probably to the point of exceeding design capacity (too much kg).

The Hyundai architecture is like what I think you're dreaming of: they have this BIG high voltage battery ... and they can use it to charge a small battery (say 4 to 6 litres). That's the same as a portable mobile device charger: the external battery probably holds 3 to 10 times the energy that your mobile device does.

I guess someone could make a 100 kg HV portable battery that you could put in the back of your T8 - not sure how much extra "juice" that's going to provide you. To even transfer a few kw of power - that portable battery is going to have to be fairly big.

I think we'd be better off with future batteries that pack more power in the same volume and mass (weight). Then you start to approach the problem with charging: how much time that takes. High voltage DC to DC charging reduces time - but is not widely available and as noted above, presents its own battery issues.

^ This is the thing. Batteries that hold large amounts of energy take up large amounts of weight and space. While the distance we get out of our T8 batteries is fairly minimal, I wouldn't be surprised if it weighs over 90 lbs. 2018 T8s are getting a better battery that is supposed to be about the same size and weight with more energy packed in but it's still only an incremental improvement. Gasoline is is actually a very efficient form of energy storage but it still weighs a lot and takes up a lot of space although much less than Li-ion batteries. This is why some would like to see fuel cell powered vehicles become prevalent where an on-board converter can take hydrocarbons and create electricity without combustion.

I do wonder why other hybrid vehicles haven't gone the way of what Hyundai has done with their partitioned starter battery. I already carry a relatively tiny Li-ion battery jump starter that packs more energy into it than a lead acid battery many times it size. It just seems obvious to get rid of the legacy energy storage. I wonder how many more KwH we could fit in our T8s in the space the two lead acid batteries occupy? Not that I'd want them where they're located.

But we're not going to see conveniently portable batteries that can charge a vehicle anytime soon without a major - on the level of alien technology major - technological discovery. But we'll get there on our own in time.

 

[Zaxxon]

A few things: (Forgive the pedantry--energy vs power is something most people struggle with as they are not familiar with using the proper units, and clarity helps us all.)
-Watts measure power. Power is measured on an instantaneous basis.
-Watt-hours measure energy. Energy is a measure of power over time. Therefore,
-Battery capacity in EVs/PHEVs is measured in kWh (or alternately amp-hours). *Not* kW. In rpmccormick's post above, he means he'd need a 40 kWh battery, not a 40 kW battery. The T8 currently has a 9.2 kWh battery, of which around 8 are accessible to the driver. Referring to capacity in kW would be like referring to your fuel tank in horsepower.
-Motor output is measured in kW. For example, the T8 raises the T6's HP output by 84. Thus the net power increase is approximately 64 kW. The actual # is probably slightly different due to the interaction b/t the electric motor and ICE, but it should be 60ish kW.

Also, 90 lb for the T8 battery? Ha! Try 550 lb.

Re: gasoline being an efficient form of energy storage--true. One gallon of gasoline holds about 33 kWh of energy. However, the overwhelming majority of that energy is wasted. The average tank-to-wheel efficiency of a gasoline vehicle is in the teens to mid-twenties. Measure well to wheel and it's even worse. Here's a Wait But Why-level overview (Tesla-focused, but applicable to all who are interested in EVs/PHEVs), and comparison b/t gasoline and electric.

On-topic with the original point: Teslas already charge at over 100 kW and can get 150 miles added in 30 minutes. That's pretty good, but in the next 12 months we'll see much better. ChargePoint has an EVSE capable of 400 kW charging, though there are not yet any vehicles that can take that level of power. Musk teased that the next revision of the Supercharger (likely to hit after Model 3 starts shipping) will do more than 350 kW. Once we get 300+ kW charging with reasonable availability, waiting around to charge is effectively eliminated as a problem for passenger vehicles.

 

[Seti]

Thank you Zaxxon for the clarification.