SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an '18 XC60 T8, 29k miles on it. When I start the car it shows 16 miles of electric range in Hybrid Mode or 18 miles in Eco mode. I'm pretty sure it used to be 18/20 before. What range does everyone else see?

I don't think my actual range is *too* impacted, but based on the amount of charge my car pulls from charging at work I do think my car seems to charge a little less than it did when it was new (probably 8.4 kW vs 8.8 kW new). Anybody else have experience with the overall range changing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,923 Posts
I have an '18 XC60 T8, 29k miles on it. When I start the car it shows 16 miles of electric range in Hybrid Mode or 18 miles in Eco mode. I'm pretty sure it used to be 18/20 before. What range does everyone else see?

I don't think my actual range is *too* impacted, but based on the amount of charge my car pulls from charging at work I do think my car seems to charge a little less than it did when it was new (probably 8.4 kW vs 8.8 kW new). Anybody else have experience with the overall range changing?
Mine is 20k and shows 17/19 miles in hybrid/pure. Last year I saw 18/20 but anyhow it changed. Don't know if software updates makes difference or slow degradation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
I have a 4 month old '19 XC60 T8. After an issue with the car it now only shows 19Miles to E when fully charged, it also only gets 19miles if I am lucky with the regen. Before my issues it was reading 20Miles to E and I was getting about 22 with regen.
Those numbers are for pure. In Hybrid I was seeing 18 now I see 17.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
That's interesting. Mine still shows 18 in Hybrid and 20 in Pure, just as it always has. Right around 24K miles on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Mind has dropped to 16/18 as well. Over time does the software recalculate the range based on driving habits perhaps?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have a 4 month old '19 XC60 T8. After an issue with the car it now only shows 19Miles to E when fully charged, it also only gets 19miles if I am lucky with the regen. Before my issues it was reading 20Miles to E and I was getting about 22 with regen.
Those numbers are for pure. In Hybrid I was seeing 18 now I see 17.
How many miles do you have on your XC60? I also noticed that I used to get to 22 miles on Pure. Now it takes a lot of effort to get to 20.

I doubt the car is recalculating given that I used to exceed the displayed range fairly frequently. I'm wondering if either the battery is degrading (which would be super fast, and very worrisome for the longevity of the car), or some sensor is thinking the battery has less effective charge than it should.

Like other T8 owners I had the thermostat replaced. I've also had two CELs come on that seemed to be thermostat related, but Volvo never figured it out. I'm taking in my car for 30k servicing next week, we'll see if the techs have anything to say (I doubt it, I haven't had good experiences at my dealership).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Just over 4K miles. I have a 18.x mile commute and I would normally get home with just under 3miles to go, daily. Then after my issue, poof I'm lucky to get 1mile left.
I have also noticed that sometimes if I stop on the way home, the distance to empty will jump up on the battery to like 8miles when before I stopped it would say 3miles. Then as I drive it drops back very quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
I have an '18 XC60 T8, 29k miles on it. When I start the car it shows 16 miles of electric range in Hybrid Mode or 18 miles in Eco mode. I'm pretty sure it used to be 18/20 before. What range does everyone else see?

I don't think my actual range is *too* impacted, but based on the amount of charge my car pulls from charging at work I do think my car seems to charge a little less than it did when it was new (probably 8.4 kW vs 8.8 kW new). Anybody else have experience with the overall range changing?
2018 T8 about 14K, noticed batt. Range dropped significantly after ERAD thermostat recall and hv thermostat removal per TJ. Used to be around 21 before the recall now I'm getting 13-16 depending on outside Temp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
OP, I can't' speak for a T8, as I'm waiting for my first one. I do though have many years of Lexus hybrid ownership under my belt without any traction battery issues (which is closer to a Volvo T8 implementation), and more recently 4 years of Tesla Model S EV ownership where I went through the first two years with faster-than normal battery degradation -- which required a lot of perseverance and proved difficult for me to get the mfgr to step up to.

My suggestion is since you feel like you may have a traction battery problem, keep very good records if you are not already -- don't fall into a situation having only anecdotal data points. Build yourself a simple spreadsheet and in the rows, note date, mileage, and the max "miles to E" on PURE. Annotate the firmware level you're running in your T8 (it does not change as often as my Tesla can and does, but bear with me.) If you plug-in to recharge only upon occasion, I'd suggest tracking that as another column datapoint as well ...and as nutty as it may at first seem, consider noting daily temperature high and low for the city your T8 is in for each of your entries, using the same weather app every time.

Most of the following does not directly apply to today's T8 implementation, but parts I suspect may, so I'll launch into it just in case. As you know, today's hybrid/EV battery tech will and does degrade over time -- nothing stops it, but some mfgr implementations and some owner actions can speed or slow the inevitable. There can also be the occasional "bad one in the bunch" that degrades or fails faster than avg, but here are some generalities from my POV:


  • All of these batteries have a natural drop-off in what their maximum charge is capable of, but my Tesla Model S (MS) experience and reading of others leaves me with the impression if all other things could be similar, they drop off a little more quickly in the first few weeks/months of life and use, before reaching a perhaps then more consistent and slower loss over time. My point being, in its first few months, dropping a mile or two in max range on a relatively new T8 with a very small battery to begin with, may or may not be unusual if we could see a much broader set of statistics beyond just people posting in this thread. Only Volvo likely has real stats of what they expect their tech should be capable of, AND what it's really doing in their fleet.
  • Exposure to extreme heat and cold environments can kill the max battery charging potential faster -- regardless what you as an owner may do. It's part of the reason why some earlier non-Tesla EVs seemed to have startlingly faster degradation from owners who lived in the desert or very cold environments, whereas Tesla Model S even when it first came out, didn't have more extreme problems because it's underlying and more expensive hardware & firmware tech always attempts to protect the traction battery by cooling or heating itself to maintain a specific internal temperature range 7x24, even when the car is turned-off or not plugged-in -- not just when it's being driven. My non-scientific POV comparing notes with other MS owners, is even with all that tech, there remains a correlation within the same battery generations of faster initial range degradation by owner's who keep their cars in more extreme environments -- this seems to be improving as new battery generations are being produced, but with all the variables it's hard as an owner to quantify. Anyway, it's why I suggest you keep track of temps in your spreadsheet so it can be ruled in or out as a possible contributor.
  • Related to that is the firmware that runs the traction battery, how it's charged, how it's maintained, and how exceptional conditions are handled. An owner can't control what the firmware or software does, but the mfgr can. Tesla rarely gives details what's in their fairly continuous OTA firmware updates beyond bigger features or changes that hit the news or marketing headlines, but it's apparent they have made numerous underlying changes to battery and charging mgmt over even the 4 years I've owned my MS -- e.g. one more readily apparent mod that unexpectedly appeared a few years back was to the way "remaining range" for a given charge was calculated and presented to owners. ;) We always knew it was just an estimate to begin with, but the numbers for more owners like myself dropped immediately after the new firmware was installed -- perhaps because the calculation was flawed to begin with, or they just came up with a better long-term algorithm to present the estimated range -- we'll never know. IIRC, somewhere along the way, Tesla has also tried to take into account Nav Route if you're using it to project remaining range -- using terrain, etc as part of the equation since it's connected to Google Maps. Anyway, anything related to remaining range on a hybrid or EV is not a mechanical absolute, but rather a software driven estimate, and is why I suggest you keep track of Volvo software update levels if you can.
  • I doubt this is a significant issue for you with the smaller battery and expected range in a T8 on PURE, but I know for a fact that the range I can get in my Tesla EV can vary dramatically for the same route depending how aggressive or not I am with my foot on the accelerator (faster is less range), if I'm in stop-and-go or highway traffic, if it's really hot or cold outside, if I do or don't use the cabin heater or window defrosters (they suck up battery noticeably faster), the number of passengers and/or cargo I'm hauling (even just 1 more adult decreases range), and outside environments (cross-winds, rain storms, etc which I've had reduce my total range over 25% in one extreme weather trip). My point being, we can drive the same route day-in and out, but other environmental differences that may seem minor can change the range we'll get in true EV (aka Volvo PURE) mode.
  • While there are many variables beyond what I would even try to understand or discuss, my POV is today's battery tech is also such that if higher charges are maintained for long periods of time -- and not used, or the charging cycle to the top is done more frequently -- charging capacity degrades faster. In my Model S (and other Tesla or other EV) e.g. it's a known problem if any owner were to consistently charge their traction battery to 100% or near to it, and even worse leave it there for long periods of time -- their max charging capacity and therefore range will degrade faster than average. Tesla even has an "indent" at 90% on their charging setting for that reason, which requires an easy but conscious movement by the owner to override. Some owner's stick with 80% or less; I only charge my MS to a max 90% on a daily basis exactly because of those known technology issues, and have only "trip charged" to 100% for the handful of times I've gone on a road trip to pick up another 18-20 mile range -- pushing the charge up to 100% using my iPhone app when I wake up, and then taking off within an hour or two. I'm not aware it's possible for a Tesla to recharge itself back to 100% via regen -- like I think may have been possible on my former Lexus RXh's and seems to be the way Volvo T8's can (but then again, do the bars on either IC really represent topped-out at 100% capacity, or something actually less than that which is the max owner's should be concerned with -- IDK.) Tesla's firmware has also always been smart enough if I keep my MS plugged-in, but not driven for two or more days, it does not top off it's charge back to my set % until the traction battery goes down maybe 6-8 miles of range below the target -- all IMO to balance protection of traction battery life with what I as the owner want my charge to be maintained at when not in use. I'm not aware T8 owner's have much if any control over any of that, except to say that as a PHEV, Volvo's firmware should also deal with it all some way or other under the covers. As a parallel, in Apple's iOS 13 coming out today, I read they are introducing a new setting to their charging algorithms so iPhones and iPads are no longer always charged to the top when you recharge, but instead (and I'm simplifying, so don't beat me up) will try to adjust that maximum charge to some balance of what you have used in the past -- and therefore likely will need -- with what helps protect longer-term battery life. Time will tell how that works.

Hopefully some of my EV parallels are of some help, but do keep a log of what you're seeing just-in-case.
...and FWIW to connect my storyline together, I believe my business-like perseverance and data eventually caused Tesla to replace my $28K traction battery with a new one under warranty a couple years back. It took a number of times for my "loss of range complaint" as part of other service appts to have something actually done from my perspective. Apparently in the end, they were able to see from diagnostics sent back to the mother ship, which could be somewhat correlated to my observations, my original battery had developed more failing cells than expected over it's life thus far. My 2nd battery had better range on day 1 than my original on day of delivery, but also went through a fast drop in range within the first few months -- but not to the same extreme loss I originally had -- and it then leveled-out with just minor to be expected degradation since.​

I look forward to following this thread, and wish you the best in a resolution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,200 Posts
18/20 on a full charge. 6350 miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I noticed the range drop and it was actually due a software update.
My dealer confirmed with Volvo support, they said the new update shows the range more accurately.
About 18mi on Pure mode.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
I am getting 18/20 on my 2018 T8 with 22K. Just got the August update and no noticeable change in performance. However, I did noticed after the update that when coasting in D mode I am getting mild battery regen. The gauge shows 2-3 lines of regen below the READY mark. This is happening when coasting on level ground, uphill or downhill with no brake application. This may just be a post-update illusion on my part and the car has been doing this all along. Can someone who hasn't had the August update confirm that they are getting mild regen when coasting in D. I read in another thread that the car has always done this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
I noticed the range drop and it was actually due a software update.
My dealer confirmed with Volvo support, they said the new update shows the range more accurately.
About 18mi on Pure mode.
I have to disagree with that. Mine still shows 20 in Pure and I find actual battery mileage to be at least that much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
I am getting 18/20 on my 2018 T8 with 22K. Just got the August update and no noticeable change in performance. However, I did noticed after the update that when coasting in D mode I am getting mild battery regen. The gauge shows 2-3 lines of regen below the READY mark. This is happening when coasting on level ground, uphill or downhill with no brake application. This may just be a post-update illusion on my part and the car has been doing this all along. Can someone who hasn't had the August update confirm that they are getting mild regen when coasting in D. I read in another thread that the car has always done this.
That's the normal situation for me, and always has been. I don't know about an August update, but I got the 2.0 update in June.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
2018 xc60 T8 with 9K miles. After full charge, 18-20 miles in Pure mode and roll into the office with a range of 7-11 miles left. My commute is ~18 miles one way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
That's the normal situation for me, and always has been. I don't know about an August update, but I got the 2.0 update in June.
I am getting 18/20 on my 2018 T8 with 22K. Just got the August update and no noticeable change in performance. However, I did noticed after the update that when coasting in D mode I am getting mild battery regen. The gauge shows 2-3 lines of regen below the READY mark. This is happening when coasting on level ground, uphill or downhill with no brake application. This may just be a post-update illusion on my part and the car has been doing this all along. Can someone who hasn't had the August update confirm that they are getting mild regen when coasting in D. I read in another thread that the car has always done this.
I have a 2018 XC60 T8 purchased in September 2018. Slight regen in D mode has always been the norm. My previous car was a Toyota Hybrid Highlander. It also had a slight regen on deceleration. My impression is that this is done to mimic the feel of driving an ICE vehicle. The fact that you get a battery boost is just icing (pun intended) on the cake. B mode increases the amount of regen, simulating downshifting on an ICE. These days, I suspect most of us no longer think about simulating the feel of an ICE, but try to hypermile with that knowledge. Neither car had enough slowing effect to remotely call it "one pedal driving."

Apologies about the reversed multiquote. There must be some odd interaction between my browser and the forum software. Additionally, I've put my car in my profile, but it isn't showing up on my posts. Maybe a mod can PM me and tell me what I'm doing wrong? :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Replying now to the OP and the original topic …

My experience is that the remaining mileage shown for both the gas tank and the battery is constantly being recalculated by the car. When I'm towing a trailer, the estimated remaining miles for the gas tank goes down significantly. The estimated miles remaining on the battery does the same based on weather and other driving conditions. I live in the West Hills of Portland OR. The last 1.7 miles to my home is a 600 to 700 foot climb depending on which direction I'm coming from. Since that is the last thing the computer sees before I charge the vehicle at home, my mileage never says 18/20 when the battery is full.

Last fall, the weather got cold soon after I purchased the car. I initially got 18+ miles on the battery, but then that dropped. I figured it was premature battery degradation. However, this past summer I often got 22 miles or more on a battery charge. This is true even though the battery display says 17 miles when I pull out of my garage. I've learned to look at the battery gauge rather than the estimated miles as the true measure of what to expect. For instance, I know that it takes 25% of the battery to make the climb back to my house. Doesn't matter if the mileage estimate is 3 miles or 6 miles. If I don't have at least 25% of the battery left, I'm not going to make it on battery alone. (And if it is near freezing or below, forget about battery performance altogether.)

Also of note: one of the functions of Pure mode is to let you go deeper into the battery's reserve. I often do that to get home without the ICE. Which is to say, I'm really hard on my battery. The car tries to regen for a 600 foot (minimum, often more) descent when I leave my house with a full battery. During the climb on the way home, I use every last drop of juice while pulling electricity at a maximum rate from a nearly depleted battery. This isn't a recipe for battery longevity. Yet my battery soldiers on like it was new. Kudos to Volvo for not giving in to the marketing department, but instead putting a 10.4 kWh traction battery in the car, but letting us use only 8.8 kWh. I suspect the battery never charges to absolute full, nor does the software let us drain it to absolutely empty. That is why it will continue to function as intended for many years.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top