T6 sometimes slow to start

6914 Views 23 Replies 10 Participants Last post by halfast3, Sep 21, 2020

posaune

Discussion Starter · Jul 6, 2016

Hi all,

My new-to-me '09 T6 (53k) has had a slight issue since I got it and I'm beginning to think about what/if I'm going to do about it. Occasionally it takes a few seconds to start. Only once has it required a second push of the button. Most of the time it starts right up.

Yes, much of the time it happens after the car has been sitting for long periods of time (overnight), but sometimes it doesn't do it in the morning. And the other day it did it after sitting for a few hours in the middle of the day. I've read the posts that I could find that seem to point to a similar issue, and I admit that I haven't checked resting fuel pressure yet. I just figured that I'd post to see what other possibilities there are since most of the anti-drainback problems seem to be worse than this one.

Fwiw, pushing the button without my foot on the brake and then starting has no effect- actually that was the one time that it required two pushes. Shouldn't that prime, bypassing any valve problem? Maybe I have the wrong idea on that....

In any case, thanks for any help.

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

skiz

· #2 · Jul 6, 2016

Much interested..

Wayne T5

· #3 · Jul 6, 2016

Original battery?

posaune

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 6, 2016

Wayne T5 said:
Original battery?

Probably? To be honest, I have no idea. It cranks quite quickly though, both when it starts right away and when it's trying to start but taking awhile.

skiz

· #5 · Jul 6, 2016

A new battery usually solves a bunch of unexpected problems.. Give it a try

Schmoyoho

· #6 · Jul 6, 2016

It depends. If it's cranking at different speeds it's probably a symptom of the battery having different charge levels and the starter struggling more some days than other. If it's always cranking at the same pace (assuming it's as it should, not just barely turning over) but it'll crank for a longer period of time, a new battery is probably as helpful as checking the tire pressure. I'm not saying it's not the battery, but if you're going to start in that end I'd also make sure the exhaust is clear of bananas (just kidding

)

Edit: when you say you pushed the button before starting it, did you press and hold or just press it? In the former case, it'll enter ignition mode II and in the latter mode I. If the pump was going to activate in either mode it would be in II of course but I have no clue if it actually does.

posaune

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 6, 2016

Schmoyoho said:
It depends. If it's cranking at different speeds it's probably a symptom of the battery having different charge levels and the starter struggling more some days than other. If it's always cranking at the same pace (assuming it's as it should, not just barely turning over) but it'll crank for a longer period of time, a new battery is probably as helpful as checking the tire pressure. I'm not saying it's not the battery, but if you're going to start in that end I'd also make sure the exhaust is clear of bananas (just kidding

)

Edit: when you say you pushed the button before starting it, did you press and hold or just press it? In the former case, it'll enter ignition mode II and in the latter mode I. If the pump was going to activate in either mode it would be in II of course but I have no clue if it actually does.

Lol. Yes, I believe the battery is completely capable of starting the car. It always cranks at the same speed, just sometimes longer than others. And I spoke too soon about the multiple attempts. I just went to get some dinner and it didn't start on the first try. It had been sitting since last evening. Then again, when I started it after four days of sitting, it started right up.

I just pushed the ignition button. Next time I'll try pushing and holding, though somehow I doubt it'll make a difference....

Schmoyoho

· #8 · Jul 7, 2016 (Edited)

One short press will turn on ignition mode I, previously commonly referred to as radio mode (which makes no sense on these cars since the radio can always be turned on). Basically enables turning on basic stuff like the fan, wakes the interior courtesy lighting and what not. Ignition mode II is where the engine bay is fully powered. I can't say for sure on these cars but as you probably know, if you push a car rolling in mode II and then drop the clutch (if it had one) the engine would start. I guess this answers my own question of whether the fuel pump starts in mode II then, it definitely should. It definitely shouldn't in mode I.

Edit: as always, checking for error codes with VIDA+DiCE or with a reader than can read volvos codes is if you ask me always starting at the right end.

posaune

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 8, 2016

Schmoyoho said:
Edit: as always, checking for error codes with VIDA+DiCE or with a reader than can read volvos codes is if you ask me always starting at the right end.

I don't have a VIDA/DICE yet, as this is my first foray into "modern" Volvos...and it's all pretty useless on a 121/1800/240/740/940.

I leave for vacation tomorrow, so hopefully it doesn't get worse. Maybe I'll order a DICE unit while I'm gone.

In the meantime, if anyone has access to VIDA and could post the procedure for changing the fuel pump (and check valve), it would be appreciated. That way, if it's the pump/valve, at least I can decide if it's going to the dealer or if I'll do it on my own.

skiz

· #10 · Jul 8, 2016

My clone DICE will be delivered next week along with the SW.. How to start? Even if I work in IT I'm still more comfortable with hardware cars like my 240 than the software one like the XC70

Schmoyoho

· #11 · Jul 9, 2016

posaune: Off the top of my head, if the fuel pump is bad then the car would probably not work as it should under high load, e.g under a kickdown. I'd guess it's losing fuel pressure. Not sure if by check valve you mean return valve but in that case, I'd suspect something like that and thus it taking the car an extra second or two to build fuel pressure to get it started.

skiz: Assuming you've got VIDA up and running, connect the dice to the car and start it (ignition II will work but it'll consume a lot of power, use a CTEK charger or just have the car running). Connect the dice to the computer, head to vehicle profile and select read car with dice or something like that. Then head to vehicle communication and look for error codes.

skiz

· #12 · Jul 9, 2016

Thank you so much

Schmoyoho

· #13 · Jul 9, 2016

It also seems that removing the fuel pump requires dropping the fuel tank. Which is a "saddle" type as it's called, sitting on both sides of the prop shaft. So you'll need to drop the panels on both sides of the prop shaft, and then the prop shaft itself. And then the entire tank and remove the level sensor and all that. I'd pay for troubleshooting before anything else if you don't want to buy a dice yourself, rather than changing the pump on a hunch. which is insanity anyway.

posaune

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 9, 2016

Schmoyoho said:
posaune: Off the top of my head, if the fuel pump is bad then the car would probably not work as it should under high load, e.g under a kickdown. I'd guess it's losing fuel pressure. Not sure if by check valve you mean return valve but in that case, I'd suspect something like that and thus it taking the car an extra second or two to build fuel pressure to get it started.

I do mean the return valve, which as I understand it is part of the pump assembly (and as such is hundreds of dollars, vs. the what, $5 that I'm used to in a redblock).

Schmoyoho said:
It also seems that removing the fuel pump requires dropping the fuel tank. Which is a "saddle" type as it's called, sitting on both sides of the prop shaft. So you'll need to drop the panels on both sides of the prop shaft, and then the prop shaft itself. And then the entire tank and remove the level sensor and all that. I'd pay for troubleshooting before anything else if you don't want to buy a dice yourself, rather than changing the pump on a hunch. which is insanity anyway.

Sadly, I know that dropping the tank is necessary. P3s are the first that don't have the access hole under the rear seat. Of course.

I'm DEFINITELY not going to change the pump on a hunch- I just want to know what exactly is involved so I can be prepared if in fact this turns out to be the problem. It does seem likely, though it must not be completely gone, since sometimes it's fine and even when at its worst, the pressure hold fine for many hours. I'll buy a DICE soon-ish, but I also need (want) to buy a dedicated computer for it so I don't have to burden my work Mac with it, so it's not an insignificant expense for me (though it's still less than a fuel pump...).

gorj

· #15 · Jul 10, 2016

It would seem that if you consider it a fuel pressure issue, then put a pressure gauge on the fuel rail!

posaune

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jul 27, 2016

Just an update to this, since I'm very new to cars this recent, I don't have VIDA/DICE or an appropriate fuel pressure gauge. I needed to take the car into the dealer though to make sure it was checked before the used car "drivetrain warranty" was up, so I asked them to check on the starting issue.

OF COURSE (as is always my experience with dealers, and much of the reason I've been staying with older cars), they found nothing. They did mention that there was a TSB out for my exact problem though- as far as I can tell, it is TJ27217.

Does anyone know if there is a way to get the txt of this TSB? I know some of the older ones extended the warranty for the affected part. My fingers are crossed for that, but I won't hold my breath....

tbrown

· #17 · Jul 28, 2016

I've never found a way to get them for free. However Volvo do provide them for (the cheapest) fee on the web.

https://www.volvotechinfo.com/index.cfm?event=item.getItem&item=TJ27217-2013-02-21

I'd be interested to know if you can find it for free. I would have thought you could ask the dealer to provide a copy of the TSB.

posaune

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 12, 2016

Just another update, though I don't have much to add so I'm probably just talking to myself here.

I finally had a little time to do stuff at home, so I ordered a fuel pressure gauge and will report the findings. One thing that I find really strange though, is that if the car sits for a long time, sometimes it'll start right up. Wouldn't that sort of point away from the anti-drainback valve in the tank? Or does it prime itself if it's been sitting for a certain number of hours/days?

A summary of what it does:

Fairly regularly now, if left overnight, it'll require two tries to start, with a bit of a stumble when it finally does.
After that, during the day, it always starts normally.

Left for seven days, came back, it took three tries to start.

Drove it for a few days with the usual behavior- maybe more mornings with two or more tries.

Left for eight days, came back, and it started immediately and normally.

:screwy:

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GusCO

· #19 · Oct 12, 2016

posaune said:
Just another update, though I don't have much to add so I'm probably just talking to myself here.

I finally had a little time to do stuff at home, so I ordered a fuel pressure gauge and will report the findings. One thing that I find really strange though, is that if the car sits for a long time, sometimes it'll start right up. Wouldn't that sort of point away from the anti-drainback valve in the tank? Or does it prime itself if it's been sitting for a certain number of hours/days?

A summary of what it does:

Fairly regularly now, if left overnight, it'll require two tries to start, with a bit of a stumble when it finally does.
After that, during the day, it always starts normally.

Left for seven days, came back, it took three tries to start.

Drove it for a few days with the usual behavior- maybe more mornings with two or more tries.

Left for eight days, came back, and it started immediately and normally.

:screwy:

My S80 sometimes does that. Seems to be rarer than on your car though. I remember in 18k miles I've owned the car that maybe 2 times it took a second try. Maybe 10 times it cranked for more than a second and started.

Also replaced the battery once, when the battery was shot it just didn't even try to start the first time, then I insisted and it finally cranked slowly but enough for it to start. I replaced the battery 30 minutes later - that was 2 months ago - and the second time I remeber it needed a second crank was with the new battery.

It's hard to say for sure, but it looks to me that if the passenger side is higher when parked, it cranks longer... I don't think it makes any sense but that's what I feel increases the chances of long cranking.

posaune

Discussion Starter · #20 · Oct 15, 2016

GusCO said:
My S80 sometimes does that. Seems to be rarer than on your car though. I remember in 18k miles I've owned the car that maybe 2 times it took a second try. Maybe 10 times it cranked for more than a second and started.

Also replaced the battery once, when the battery was shot it just didn't even try to start the first time, then I insisted and it finally cranked slowly but enough for it to start. I replaced the battery 30 minutes later - that was 2 months ago - and the second time I remeber it needed a second crank was with the new battery.

It's hard to say for sure, but it looks to me that if the passenger side is higher when parked, it cranks longer... I don't think it makes any sense but that's what I feel increases the chances of long cranking.

Mine always cranks quite quickly. It just takes a long time to start. It's almost always in the garage too, so angle isn't an issue in my case. If it did it as rarely s yours, I might not car, but I'm worried about premature starter wear at this rate. Of course it also is a bit sad to have your beautiful Volvo not start....

So the pressure gauge arrived and I just went out and took off the engine cover...aaand then I put it back on and came back in.

Does anyone have any helpful tips for how I do this? I STILL haven't gotten around to getting VIDA so I'm flying blind. The only thing on the rail that seems likely is at the left end under a torx screw, obscured by the mount. I'd rather not poke around not knowing exactly what I'm doing, so guidance would be greatly appreciated here.

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