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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi Everyone,

I've read a lot of posts about this but I need a little help on diagnostics. Any help is deeply appreciated.

My car:
2005 V50 T5 AWD 6-speed manual with about 110,000 mi. I've had it since 2008 and the only problem I've ever had was 6 years ago with the flame trap (crank case breather) which was covered under warranty.

Description of the current problem:
4 days ago I left my house to go to work in the morning and at the stop sign 1/2 block from my house my car stuttered and stalled. I thought it was weird because that's never happened before, started it right up and went to work. After days more of driving I was leaving work when I barely go out of the driveway when, while in 2nd gear, my car stuttered and stalled. I tried to restart it and I could not get it to start up: the RPM's would fluctuate, and then it would stall. I did this about 10 times with it stalling every time before one of my coworkers came over and helped me push it back into the parking lot. Up until this sudden problem I've had no issues with loss of power or anything of that nature.

Diagnostics done so far:
I've read a bunch about this issue now and it seems like the most talked about culprits are:
Pump Electronics Module (PEM)
Fuel Pressure Sensor (FPS)
Software upgrade (30668282)

This morning I hooked up my OBD-II reader to the car (Scout 2500) and it read no errors what so ever.
I also read the sensors off of the turn signal wand (foglight hitting + read button = magic thing) and this is what i got:
BCM DTC Set
DEM Ready
ECM DTC Set
SWM Checking
EPS Ready
CEM DTC Set
SRS Ready
CCM Checking
DOM Checking
DIM Ready
ICM Checking
PDM Checking
PSM Checking

I also, hooked up my OBD-II bluetooth gadget to read stuff from my phone and it read no errors. And since the stalling problem was yesterday, I tried to start up the car and it started right up. Which let me read:
Fuel Pressure : 51.8 psi while stopped and 42 - 43 psi while running.


Questions:
So, it seems like it's not the FPS, right? Or maybe it was acting up yesterday when the problem existed? Do FPS show intermittent issues like that?
Why did my OBD-II reader not show the error codes that the wand showed? Is it that I need a Volvo dealership to read the OBD-II for me to get the proprietary codes?
What about the PEM? Do the error codes I got indicate an issue with the PEM? Or do I need a Volvo dealership OBD-II reader to get more detail?
What would you guys do from here? I know the PEM and possibly the FPS are covered under warranty (although the dealership will fight me on this because I'm not in a state where it's actually covered, CA) but I'm not looking forward to a big bill from the dealership. I'd like to do any of the work myself to save $$.
Next steps?

Thanks for all the help!
 

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I would get an icarsoft scanner or a Vida dice setup and look for the actual dtcs cause a lot of the time there are many codes that won't trigger a cel and the odb2 can't read the individual modules. The original fps is defective, there was a recall on the s60 and not the s40 you can get the oem part on amazon for like 50 bucks. I would start there.

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FPS is easy and cheap, and it solved my hesitation issue. Mine never stalled but felt like it was getting starved of fuel at times while accelerating.


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info! I ordered a new FPS. Looking into the icarsoft & Vida Dice setup. Seems like it would be good to have around. I'll update this thread after I put in the new FPS. Hopefully that was it.

Is there a list of codes that the Vida Dice (or other) scanner sends into the OBD-II port to retrieve the data? I'm sure I can get my phone to send in specific codes, just need to know what they are.
 

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Is there a list of codes that the Vida Dice (or other) scanner sends into the OBD-II port to retrieve the data? I'm sure I can get my phone to send in specific codes, just need to know what they are.
I'm not sure what you mean, but you need an interface to connect to the car's internal modules. If you do Bluetooth and your phone, that normally only gives you access to the ECM module.
 

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There are dozens of modules you can connect you.. But the generic obd2 scanners can't connect to them. That's why you need a dice compatible scanner like dice, or the icarsoft. I don't know of another one that can especially in that price range. If we could get a bluetooth one to interface with the other modules that would be a game changer on the diagnostic side of things.

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Basically, you need a volvo specific - I got an Autophix, some people have Vida Dice - There a normal ODBII scanner, even a $200 or $300 one from the auto store, won't connect unless it specifically states works with volvo's.

It will see what modules in the cars are throwing codes.

But a live data feed from your FPS will help you rule that out if it's not the cause. I saw drops/spikes in mine, but after replacing it the spikes were not as severe. (went from 2-3psi to .5psi).
 

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You can also just use a FP gauge.
 

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You never now what the FPS can do... Might be worth a shot at replacing it. I've only known a few people to actually get a CEL from a failed FPS. I've had two cars where it was pretty much shot, not codes.

I would also check the fuse for the fuel pump. Sounds like fuel starvation is stalling it out?

Just to note, this is not the Start Stutter Stall problem. SSS is failing to start on the first try, but then firing up immediately on the second try. This was alleviated by a software update from the dealer for 2004-2007. My 2008 faced a similar problem, which turned out to be a $12 fuel pump relay. But like I said, the start stutter stall all occurs within 10 seconds of starting the car, so your problem sounds different... If you don't mind, I'm going to change the title of the thread to avoid confusion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the advice. I'm back with an update and so far the problem isn't gone... yet. I will tackle this.

What's been done:
I replaced the FPS with the newer Bosch model that I picked up from Amazon. Seemed like a good first place to start, given that the original is viewed as being a little defective and that it could be a quick and easy fix. That being said, it didn't solve the starting problem.

More Observations:
Yesterday, just out of curiosity I tried to start the car and it started right up without a single hesitation, just like it has always done. I didn't view this as the problem being gone, just as evidence of it being an intermittent issue.
Today I got the new FPS in, I went to install it. Before doing any work I tried to start up the car and it wouldn't start even after many attempts. I also remembered to monitor the fuel pressure from my phone+ OBD-II bluetooth gadget and found the fuel pressure to be about 0. This was after many failed attempts of trying to start the car.
I installed the FPS per the sticky, thank you m4gician. I looked at fuse 74 and it checked out ok. I also pulled the two relays in passenger side fuse box, not knowing if either was the fuel pump relay. Both of those relays looked super clean on the outside with clean contacts.
After installing the new FPS I started monitoring the FPS output and tried to start the car. I saw the pressure go from 0 to 2 psi on the first attempt to start. After many attempts I found that if I tried many times while keeping the key in position II, the pressure would ultimately drop to 0.0. But if, between every attempt, I returned the key to position 0, then the pressure would bump up by about 2psi with every short attempt, eventually capping out around 10 or 12 psi where the car would start, stumble, and then stop with the pressure dropping back down to about 7psi. So, my take away from this is that for the first second or so the fuel pump is able to start up and start building up some pressure but then it stops for some reason. And if I do this enough times in a row, I can get it to start for a second.

Question:
Any suggestions on what to do next? I know a good scanner would be very helpful here but I was hoping to avoid buying and waiting for a new scanner to arrive. My wife and I just had a baby two days ago (great timing for all of this). So, in the without a good scanner, knowing the FPS and fuse 74 are good... Where to next?
Where is the fuel pump relay? Can't find the drawing to find where it is and I'd like to inspect it to see if it's working.
Where is the PEM? Maybe I should unplug and plug that in, hoping it's a corroded contact on the plug...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yep, it's definitely fuel starvation. And it's not the FPS or the fuel relay fuse.

And thanks for changing the title of the thread. Sounds like I confused this starting / running issue with a very specific issue that is different.


You never now what the FPS can do... Might be worth a shot at replacing it. I've only known a few people to actually get a CEL from a failed FPS. I've had two cars where it was pretty much shot, not codes.

I would also check the fuse for the fuel pump. Sounds like fuel starvation is stalling it out?

Just to note, this is not the Start Stutter Stall problem. SSS is failing to start on the first try, but then firing up immediately on the second try. This was alleviated by a software update from the dealer for 2004-2007. My 2008 faced a similar problem, which turned out to be a $12 fuel pump relay. But like I said, the start stutter stall all occurs within 10 seconds of starting the car, so your problem sounds different... If you don't mind, I'm going to change the title of the thread to avoid confusion.
 

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The fuel pump relay is located in the fuse box under the glove box, so I'm guessing you've already checked that one.

Can you hear the fuel pump working at all? I'm almost wondering if you're losing pressure in the fuel rail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I looked at it, wasn't sure if that was it, and on the outside it looked clean. Maybe I will pull it and put 12V on it to listen for a click.

I bumped the pressure up to 38 psi and waited. After 6 min it dropped to 35.7 psi. So, not fast but not steady...

I don't hear the fuel pump. I rocked forward the back seats to hopefully be able to hear it better but I can't hear it. Seems like it must be kicking on, at least a little because I can get the pressure up, but I can't hear it.

I called a local dealership service department to see if they listed a recall on the PEM. The guy I talked to said he hadn't seen one of those relocations in years. Pulled up my car's recalls/extended warranties and said there wasn't anything listed for it. He said he didn't put in any location information so it sounds like for a 2005 V50 we never had a PEM recall/extended warranty.

I also described the problems I have to him and he said it sounded like a fuel pump issue. The parts department quoted me about $500 for the pump + o-ring. Part number 8629530.

Thanks for all the help!


The fuel pump relay is located in the fuse box under the glove box, so I'm guessing you've already checked that one.

Can you hear the fuel pump working at all? I'm almost wondering if you're losing pressure in the fuel rail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The fuel pump relay is located in the fuse box under the glove box, so I'm guessing you've already checked that one.
I just checked both relays under the glove box. Pulled them out, put 12V across the coil, check continuity in both ON/OFF states. Both operated just fine.

So, I guess I'm down to the PEM or the fuel pump as best guesses. The dealership mechanic guessed the pump...

I just looked for the PEM. It's not under the seat, I found it in front of the right rear wheel.

So, do I pull the trigger and buy & replace the fuel pump or do I take it to the dealer and have them replace the PEM? Or do I find a cheap PEM, used and throw it in at it's current location?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Talked to the dealer again, and according to them, the recall on the PEM doesn't apply to my car. But according to this website the PEM relocation is covered:
http://www.vindecoderz.com/

Maybe the next steps are to pull apart the PEM and see if it looks destroyed? If so then call Volvo and see if I can get them to agree to cover it and contact my dealership for me?
 
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