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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (pie_ya)

With stronger materials what kind of hp would it be able to handle? I'm always hoping that someone comes through with a stronger part. If you are able to do so then count me in.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (o2k)

I agree with others that the part is designed to be the weak link. Given that it seems there are a lot of failures are seem to relate to mileage/general wear to the teeth that give out suddenly, it seems like a stronger collar would be preferred.

We don't see a lot of failures in the 2006+ auto's that have a stronger sleeve. the angle gears are not blowing up that frequently. I think there is still room to improve the collar for the long term without causing more expensive parts to failure by making it the strongest part on the car.

I prefer a part that will last, and ability to handle more hp is secondary and will probably indirectly occur.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (atacamaR)

It seems like the consensus is to make a stronger collar gear like I suggested in my first post.

What would be the steps to get a better fitting collar gear? The material should be pretty easy to figure out and whether to heat treat it, etc.

Would the best option be to make a mold of the 'input' gears where the collar gear fits into the angle gear and make a better fitting collar gear from that? If so, I wouldn't even know how to get a mold going and would that be overkill. Is there an easier way or if not, can someone get me the dimensions of the input to the angle gear?

And thanks for the description of how it fails, FORD.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (pie_ya)

I imagine any decent Mech. Eng. would be able to mock up a part based on a sample part, and given the manual part vs. the auto collar info should be able to help come up with good materials. Once the part is put into CAD, a supplier could be found.
 

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This could be a wasteful guessing game. You need to know the material and hardening process used on the mating splines and chose a sleeve spline hardness accordingly (softer).
 

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Annnd now that I have my notes in front of me, I believe this is the answer to someones question about extending the tip of the threads...

The sharp threads were vulnerable to damage, and the sharp roots caused severe stress concentration.

Basically the gaps are tolerance zones.
 

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Re: (RBbugBITme)

Quote, originally posted by RBbugBITme »
This could be a wasteful guessing game. You need to know the material and hardening process used on the mating splines and chose a sleeve spline hardness accordingly (softer).

Someone did quite the thorough testing of the collar gears to find out what Volvo used in terms of metals, hardness, etc etc. IIRC, it involved BAE and was VERY in depth. Let me do a search real quick and see if I can find a link...

FOUND: adykes P2 Collar Gear analysis

Answers to any possible collar gear question you can dream up will be found in that thread.

HTH!!


-Steve
 

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Ja, that was I.

All comments regarding the TF-SC80 angle gear can be axed, the input shaft of that angle gear has a different number of teeth and the output shaft of the TF-SC80 has a different diameter and a different number of teeth so there is no current part that could make those mate. The only exception would be getting the M66 transmission and angle gear out of a 2008+ V70/XC70/S80 with the D5 engine and making that work, but those parts don't bolt right up to the P2 chassis.

Bottom line, it's Volvos nitride coated revised part that still has a poor fitment issue, or a custom part.
 

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Hopefully your link discusses the material of the other part the collar connects with. I'll investigate, I still don't know much about these cars yet.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (pie_ya)

Ok so you up gread the splin color gear to some unbrakable metal then what.... you brake the trans or your angle drive
Volvo allready upgreaded it to withstand the Rs TQ .
but if you make it and stronger your hosed. the idea of the splin gear striping is for safty reasions. i allready got me a new trans i dont wnat a nother so coundt me out, jsut get the new volvo one and your goood!!
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (VolvokidS60R)

Quote, originally posted by VolvokidS60R »

Ok so you up gread the splin color gear to some unbrakable metal then what.... you brake the trans or your angle drive
Volvo allready upgreaded it to withstand the Rs TQ .
but if you make it and stronger your hosed. the idea of the splin gear striping is for safty reasions. i allready got me a new trans i dont wnat a nother so coundt me out, jsut get the new volvo one and your goood!!

Actually... That's not correct, this is the same part as used in the 2.5T AWD, D5 AWD and XC70 AWD.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (adykes)

Quote, originally posted by adykes »


Actually... That's not correct, this is the same part as used in the 2.5T AWD, D5 AWD and XC70 AWD.
BAHAHAHAHAHA i love it when people try to tell me i dont know when i WORK ON VOLVOS FOR A LIVING!!!!!

Have you ever seen the KIT for the 2005 S60RMT....?
i work on thies cars EVER day i did my own and about 5 orther spline gears so YES it is upgreaded!!!
I held up my OEM color gear to the NEW one i got and YES ITS BEEFER!!
the Auto trans doesnt even have a Fing kit! you have to peace it toghter...
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (VolvokidS60R)

Quote, originally posted by VolvokidS60R »

BAHAHAHAHAHA i love it when people try to tell me i dont know when i WORK ON VOLVOS FOR A LIVING!!!!!

Have you ever seen the KIT for the 2005 S60RMT....?
i work on thies cars EVER day i did my own and about 5 orther spline gears so YES it is upgreaded!!!
I held up my OEM color gear to the NEW one i got and YES ITS BEEFER!!
the Auto trans doesnt even have a Fing kit! you have to peace it toghter...

And I love it when people who are uninformed make entertaining guesses.

Yep, sure have, and I've had 15 of them sawn up and extensively tested. There are a few different collars but they are not unique to the R.

-1st Generation S80, S60 and 2nd Generation (P2) XC70s and V70s equipped with the M66 transmissions regardless of engine types use the same collar gear. Around 2006-2007 Volvo altered the part slightly by adding a nitride coating to the gear to reduce wear on the friction surfaces of the gear teeth. So if by "upgraded" you mean they sprayed a nitride coating that is a few microns thin on the existing part that is too soft for the application, then yes it's upgraded. BUT, this part is not unique to the R, all P2 AWD vehicles (M66) AWD collars are the same dimension and all receive the updated part. The AW55 part is similarly afflicted and was similarly rectified for all units.

-All vehicles using the TF-80SC transmission use a unique part. This includes but is not limited to: 2006-2007 (GT only), 2007+ S80s, 2008+ V70s, XC70s, 2009+ XC70s and any 3.2L or V8 XC90 regardless of year.

-All post P2 vehicles with the M66 transmissions have a unique part which is not interchangeable with the older M66 transmissions (4 more teeth) This part is not sold in the USA and I had to beg to get one imported so we could slice it up for testing. This part is greatly improved and used on all engine types on all 2008+ Volvos with the M66AWD transmission.

Modified by adykes at 12:59 PM 1-28-2010
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (VolvokidS60R)

Quote, originally posted by VolvokidS60R »

BAHAHAHAHAHA i love it when people try to tell me i dont know when i WORK ON VOLVOS FOR A LIVING!!!!!

Have you ever seen the KIT for the 2005 S60RMT....?
i work on thies cars EVER day i did my own and about 5 orther spline gears so YES it is upgreaded!!!
I held up my OEM color gear to the NEW one i got and YES ITS BEEFER!!
the Auto trans doesnt even have a Fing kit! you have to peace it toghter...

What forum is this? Anyone that argues like this doesn't get a second look from me. Take a chill pill, work on spelling and attitude PLEASE.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (RBbugBITme)

Quote, originally posted by RBbugBITme »


What forum is this? Anyone that argues like this doesn't get a second look from me. Take a chill pill, work on spelling and attitude PLEASE.

Leave it be, he's the only exception to the rule on this forum. Ahahahaah.

It is worth it to learn his language.
 

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Re: Spline/collar gear poll with possibility of making an updated part (chinaonnitrous1)

LOL
Quote, originally posted by chinaonnitrous1 »


Leave it be, he's the only exception to the rule on this forum. Ahahahaah.

It is worth it to learn his language.

quoted for truth - Nick cracks me up, most of the time though I skip over his post as I don't want the headache of deciphering what he really meant

Also on the topic of upgrading the spline/collar gear: I was thinking last night.. why not just weld that bitch together? no more stripped teeth!
 

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Different materials make it impossible or very difficult or the old standard answer... welds are always weaker than the part itself so it's actually making it worse. Which is true, I don't know. I still haven't had the time to figure out exactly what connects to what cause I've been focusing on the exhaust.
 

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The material may not weld together in an ideal fashion. Besides, then you wouldn't be able to take it apart if you needed to service the angle gear or transmission, which is kind of a bummer. The nitrided part does seem to have a longer life than the previous part, primarily because the failure mode was wear, not a spontaneous break.
 

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Re: (RBbugBITme)

Quote, originally posted by RBbugBITme »
... welds are always weaker than the part itself so it's actually making it worse.

On like materials, the weld (if done properly) is generally STRONGER than the material...

...carry on.
 

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What's the material they use on the collar gear on the 08+ D5 with M66? If we use that material instead of the current hardened steel with magnesium with aNitride coating on the 31256008 collar gear, then we solve the issue with the current failure rate on all our Rs... Seriously, the D5 gear(which doesn't fit) is a much stronger part.

Gathered info from this thread... great read btw...
http://www.v70r.com/forums/ind...st=80
 
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