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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I bought a set of S60 R gauges from a 2004 R and I attempted to put them in my 2001 S60 this afternoon. It appeared to be pretty much plug and play but the gauges decided to go Paris Hilton on me. They look pretty but otherwise are pretty much useless and a waste of space. No functions work (i.e., needles, readouts, etc.). Does anyone know what the problem may be, or how to test the guages to see if it is an internal problem, rather than a compatibility issue? Any help/input/solutions to make these work is great! Thanks!<p>-Adam
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

Was the battery disconnected and the system discharged before the swap? Are all of the plugs identical? Did you try reinstalling your T5 again cluster to see that it still works? Sorry - lots of questions and no answers.<p>Good luck!<p>- Tryg
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (RainyS60R)

No the battery was not disconnected. How do you discharge the system? I did reinstall the T5 cluster and it did function normally. Something interesting is that when the cluster is disconnected, none of the controls for the windows or locks will work. When I plugged the R cluster in, none of the controls worked either. Perhaps there is an internal fuse in the R cluster? I am going to attempt to open it up once I finish some other work on the T5. Thanks for the ideas, Tryg. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> Any others???
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

Ugggh... it sounds, unfortunately, like you have a bad instrument cluster. BUT at least you still have functioning gauges. <p>I find it hard to believe that there are any real differences beyond the R's cosmetic touches. If the faceplate, dials and needles are removable, I would suggest looking at the possibility of retrofitting the R faceplate onto your working T-5 instrument cluster (if the vehicle speeds match up on both speedometers of course).<p>On a side note, it scares the heck out of me when car companies intertwine so many functions and systems... one problem and several components stop working.<p>Again, good luck.<p>- Tryg<p>FYI - by discharging, I simply meant that all of the electricity in the system was given a chance to fully dissipate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (RainyS60R)

So now I have a whole mess of other problems. I disconnected the battery, then hooked up the R cluster, the reconnected the battery, and still nothing. So I unplug the R cluster, and plug in the T5 cluster and now the car is throwing an Airbag System Malfunction message, the sunroof wont close/open, the dome lights won't go on manually (they come on when the door is opened though) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> and the central locking system won't work from inside, but does from outside. I am more than effing pissed right now. My girl friend is running to the store to get painters tape to tape trashbags over the sunroof because we are going away for the 4th. I am at my apt blowing off steam. Anyone have any ideas?
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

I would think that there would be differences just because you are going from 2004 to 2001. I heard that this wasn't possible. I think this was talked about in the past.
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>S60Driven</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So now I have a whole mess of other problems. I disconnected the battery, then hooked up the R cluster, the reconnected the battery, and still nothing. So I unplug the R cluster, and plug in the T5 cluster and now the car is throwing an Airbag System Malfunction message, the sunroof wont close/open, the dome lights won't go on manually (they come on when the door is opened though) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> and the central locking system won't work from inside, but does from outside. I am more than effing pissed right now. My girl friend is running to the store to get painters tape to tape trashbags over the sunroof because we are going away for the 4th. I am at my apt blowing off steam. Anyone have any ideas?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I would take it to the dealer with it hooked up to the R dials. I was asking my service dept about swapping ECU's in and out to hide the aftermarket flash. His response was that there is a computer in you dial assemble that keeps track of that info...so they can see the differences in the milage. If so, I assuming the 2 different softwares are conflicting which each other.
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (Kaizai)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Kaizai</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think that there would be differences just because you are going from 2004 to 2001. I heard that this wasn't possible. I think this was talked about in the past.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That might also add to the software conflict.
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (KillerB)

In the panel next to the sunroof there is a MAUAL crank that you can close the sunroof with. Just pop the cover off and you will see what I am talking about. Rick
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

Damn, I almost mentioned this SRS message after my rant about common wiring. I'm sorry I didn't do this. You get the same message if you swap the stereo head unit while the battery is connected. I wonder if disconnecting/reconnecting the battery with all of your T5 equipment plugged in will be enough to get everything functioning again... ? <p>I hate to say it, but I think a trip to the dealer is necessary to clear the SRS code. <p>Enjoy the Fourth. This probably isn't going to be as expensive a fix as you might be thinking it will be. Once again, good luck... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>- Tryg
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (RainyS60R)

I was looking into this as well and after all of the reading I did of this swap, I swear someone said that you have to basically switch out everything in your gauges with the R gauges. So you would effectively just be switching the face of the gauge and add the lighting of course, to your gauges. I dont think this would be *all* that bad, but I don't know. You obviously know how things go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (deep60)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>deep60</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was looking into this as well and after all of the reading I did of this swap, I swear someone said that you have to basically switch out everything in your gauges with the R gauges. So you would effectively just be switching the face of the gauge and add the lighting of course, to your gauges. I dont think this would be *all* that bad, but I don't know. You obviously know how things go.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks for all the help folks! After leaving the car for about a half hour the sunroof started working again (weird, I know) but I still have the SRS warning. The central locking system I believe is attributed to some work I was doing in the doors (I could have sworn it worked before the guage debacle though, oh well). I am going to call the dealer tomorrow and see what is possible. Otherwise it is going to be a matter of switching all the stuff in the R cluster into the T5 cluster. I will let you know how this turns out. I am pretty determined and not going to waste a PERFECT R cluster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

Well, as a small update, the central locking system now works again, after me doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to it. Again, maybe it was the ECU resetting itself. I thought my last car had a quirky electrical system. From now on I am not going to go as far as unscrewing a single thing without disconnecting the battery...<p>About the gauges...it appears that the R cluster does require some sort of software. I will probably go the route that S60Evolve went with switching everything out and replacing LED's in the stock T5 cluster then using the R gauge faces & surround with the lights to illuminate the faces. I need to find a power source for the 4 lights though...anyone really electrically inclined in the NH/MA/ME area that wants to help me tackle this project?
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

Someone will surely jump on me for this, because it's entirely a stab in the dark, but I would imagine if you tap into the output on the dimmer switch just to the left of the steering column you'd be good to go as far as the four LEDs above the gauges.<p>I hope this works - you certainly have a lot invested into the swap so far. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>- Tryg
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>S60Driven</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, as a small update, the central locking system now works again, after me doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to it. Again, maybe it was the ECU resetting itself. I thought my last car had a quirky electrical system. From now on I am not going to go as far as unscrewing a single thing without disconnecting the battery...<p>About the gauges...it appears that the R cluster does require some sort of software. I will probably go the route that S60Evolve went with switching everything out and replacing LED's in the stock T5 cluster then using the R gauge faces & surround with the lights to illuminate the faces. I need to find a power source for the 4 lights though...anyone really electrically inclined in the NH/MA/ME area that wants to help me tackle this project?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The cluster (DIM) is basically a computer connected to the car's Canbus network.<br>The DIM is a so called node on the network and it is "logged in" to the CEM. When replacing the cluster the CEM is missing the original cluster.<br>With a lot of hassle you can get it to work but eventually the system will hang if a software update of any kind is needed. <br>The only thing you can do is to replace the face plates.<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (Johann)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RainyS60R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Someone will surely jump on me for this, because it's entirely a stab in the dark, but I would imagine if you tap into the output on the dimmer switch just to the left of the steering column you'd be good to go as far as the four LEDs above the gauges.<p>I hope this works - you certainly have a lot invested into the swap so far. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>- Tryg</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I thought about this as well. I had an aftermarket guage set up with a potentiometer connected to the dimmer switch (as a power source) on my last car. Not sure if it would work the same here.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johann</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The cluster (DIM) is basically a computer connected to the car's Canbus network.<br>The DIM is a so called node on the network and it is "logged in" to the CEM. When replacing the cluster the CEM is missing the original cluster.<br>With a lot of hassle you can get it to work but eventually the system will hang if a software update of any kind is needed. <br>The only thing you can do is to replace the face plates.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Is there anyway to extract the computer from the T5 and swap it into the R cluster, or some way to trick the system? There must be another place on the cars system that the odometer information is stored rather than just the cluster. What if the R cluster was installed then the ECU was flashed? These are just shots in the dark as well. I appreciate everyones help! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

I'm no Canbus expert but I think the CEM, the main module in your car holding all the information, is expecting a certain revision dash. Normally Volvo is blocking attempts like the one you want to do now by not allowing modules or so called nodes already containing software on the network.<p>So basically it is expecting a new, empty, DIM with a certain revision.<br>The software download will check certain parameters and log the DIM on to the cars network.<br>Pretty positive the CEM will not recognize an R DIM because it isn't stored as suitable in the CEM.<p>I know of a situation where a car was ordered as climate control version but came from factory as manual AC. The customer didn't accept this setup so the dealer offered to rebuild to climate control which isn't that much work from a hardware point of view.<br>Where it went wrong was when they needed to load the software for the CC unit. The CEM only allowed software for manual AC, CC was rejected. A remote dial up connection to the factory with straight access to teh CEM was needed to update the factory status of the car to CC equiped before it would accept the software for it.<p>In this case Volvo made an exception because it was a production error. In many cases they simply refuse to help..
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (Johann)

Wow, that is some interesting stuff. You sound like you have a pretty good grasp of the subject. I had no idea that it was that sophisticated of a system. Looks like I am going to be going the manual route and replacing all the parts of my T5 cluster with parts from the R cluster. Hopefully this works. If anyone has any other ideas or options I am willing to try anything. Thanks!
 

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Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (S60Driven)

I know there was a guy in Sweden that did this swap a few years ago and posted some info here on it. I looked into doing it on my T5 but soon found out how difficult a job it would be. Plus the back lighting on R cluster is different than in the T5. good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: S60 R Gauges in S60 T5...problems... (soledoc)

Yea, there was a guy (S60Evolve) that did it. Doesn't seem to be on the forum anymore. <p>So far this is what I assume must be done to get these into my T5. <p>• Remove gauge faces from R cluster<br>• Install on T5 cluster<br>• Use outer bezel with upper four lights on the T5 cluster instead of stock bezel<br>• Create/find power source for upper lights<br>• Replace green backlight LED's on T5 cluster with white LED's (seems to be the hardest part of this job)<br>• Install/Enjoy<p>If anyone sees anything I may have forgotten, please specify and offer any help that I may need. Thanks!<br>
 
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