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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With the original roof racks and the roof box (Thule Motion XT) , is there a change in the operating mode of the ESP system due to the raised center of gravity of the vehicle?
I not found this information anywhere
 

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Esp should work as it should regardless of the car’s condition, it will intervene according to the parameters set into it such as steering angle vs. Slide/yaw...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Esp should work as it should regardless of the car’s condition, it will intervene according to the parameters set into it such as steering angle vs. Slide/yaw...
Thanks for the answer, I know how the ESP works, but how ESP can detect that it has a cargo box on the roof
There must be some sensor that gives this information
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Never heard of such a thing for any manufacturer.
Audi uses it in its Q models since 2009


Roof Rack Detection System

The roof rack detection system in the Audi Q5 is directly linked to the Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP®) control unit. When the crossbars are installed, a signal is sent that adjusts driving-dynamic relevant parameters according to the center of gravity. When the crossbars are not installed, the ESP® program adjusts dynamics to allow for more enthusiastic driving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There are accelerometers in the vehicle. These will detect the 'lean' of the vehicle -- which is affected by passengers and cargo.
If it can be on the weight of the vehicle, but how it will determine the height, the height is a problem. A simple gravity center is a problem that accelerometers in the vehicle can not determine ie detect
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Despite the overall HEIGHT and WEIGHT of the vehicle+box+plate being the SAME, the vehicle will handle differently between the two tests.

Center of gravity matters. Height does not matter, directly. Height only matters in that it CAN affect center of gravity.
Weight, height and center of gravity are very important, put 100 kg in the inside vehicle and put 100 in the box at the top of the roof - It's not the same

I'll try to explain this way : Place around your belt 3 kg and try running and turn left and right and try to lean back and forth.
Then put a weight of 3kg on your head and repeat all the above actions
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Ugh, you're either an epic troll, or incredibly dense. This forums will be better without you. Add me to the (assumed long) list of people who have finally blocked you.
An excellent answer, it's better not to write anything than answers that make no sense

The system in car calculate approximately how many passengers or cargo has inside the car, because uses its information from sensors leveling contained in the suspension system + acceleration sensor
All new cars have an acceleration sensor (I mean more expensive cars), but this sensor cannot recognize if there is a roof box :p

Just for you


 

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The system in car calculate approximately how many passengers or cargo has inside the car, because uses its information from sensors leveling contained in the suspension system + acceleration sensor
My guess is that the SPA volvos currently don't have this measurement. From the ESP control point of view, one tunes its controller differently with different sets of measurements. If a controller manages a degree of freedom that is affected by a certain measurement, then the absence or presence of this measurement affects how the controller decides how much it relies on its control model plus available measurements vs all that plus the extra measurement. Generally, extra measurement may or may not improve the performance and safety of the system under various conditions.

Given the relatively fast sample time of the ESP control system's data acquisition, computation, and action, relative to the bandwidth of the mass it is trying to stabilize, I'm not sure if there is an appreciable pragmatic difference.
 

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If I understand correctly from Audi's spec/diagram - the "feature" is triggered by mounting the standard cross bars- ie. even without a box on, or with an empty box- or with a fully laden (100kg) box- this "advanced" system will raise the vehicle's center of gravity. :facepalm: It would be a laughable gimmick if it didn't negatively affect the vehicle's dynamics by incorrectly assuming the change in the center of gravity..
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If I understand correctly from Audi's spec/diagram - the "feature" is triggered by mounting the standard cross bars- ie. even without a box on, or with an empty box- or with a fully laden (100kg) box- this "advanced" system will raise the vehicle's center of gravity. :facepalm: It would be a laughable gimmick if it didn't negatively affect the vehicle's dynamics by incorrectly assuming the change in the center of gravity..
Which fool mounts the crossbar and puts an empty roof box to ride around with that :eek:

If you want to drive with cross bars, simply remove the magnet :) :) :), that's so simple :partywave:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh, I see an expert, I'm still waiting for an explanation how the accelerator sensor recognizes if there is a roof box :deadhorse:
 

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Oh, I see an expert, I'm still waiting for an explanation how the accelerator sensor recognizes if there is a roof box :deadhorse:
Accelerometers and accelerator sensors are different things. Accelerometers measure things like pitch, roll, and yaw rates, and are most definitely used in the stability control system. When it comes to measuring roll rate, the onboard computers don't care where the CG is. It is simply too variable and quite literally changes as you drive (fuel burn). Thus, the stability control system only cares about the rate at which the vehicle is rolling, yawing, etc... and then it seeks to correct that. As for the Audi system, when it detects load bars, it reverts to an ultra conservative setting, thus allowing lower roll rates prior to intervention. Without knowing the parameters and baselines for each company's systems it would be impossible to say which was "safer" as Volvo's baseline could be more conservative than Audi's from the beginning.
 

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Without knowing the parameters and baselines for each company's systems it would be impossible to say which was "safer" as Volvo's baseline could be more conservative than Audi's from the beginning.
+1
Not to mention other factors that also affect the outcome like structural differences (e.g. how low the engine block is relative to the ground, affecting how low the roll center is), spring rate, rotational inertia, etc., that may be different enough between two different vehicles.
 

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Which fool mounts the crossbar and puts an empty roof box to ride around with that :eek:

If you want to drive with cross bars, simply remove the magnet :) :) :), that's so simple :partywave:
Ofcourse. Silly me. I want the car to always adjust the center of gravity for the full weight (100kg) of the roof rack. Because only fools drive with less than 100kg on the roof rack. :thumbup:
 

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Ofcourse. Silly me. I want the car to always adjust the center of gravity for the full weight (100kg) of the roof rack. Because only fools drive with less than 100kg on the roof rack. :thumbup:
I would be that fool. :) I use the roof bars to transport bikes as well as an empty roofbox (one way) usually. Rarely are the crossbars off the car.

Now I’m second guessing my purchase. Should have bought a Q Series.



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That Q5 is soooo much better. Anyone want to buy my 2018 XC60? Its super unsafe and the worst. I used to think it was awesome, but I have now seen the light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Ofcourse. Silly me. I want the car to always adjust the center of gravity for the full weight (100kg) of the roof rack. Because only fools drive with less than 100kg on the roof rack. :thumbup:
Of course the Audi engineers are stupid, so Volvo used 20 years of Audi's engines :) :) :)

Audi does not make idiotic solutions: access the box with the fuses front under passenger compartment, you need to kneel down to replace the fuse,
In the back of the car, you need to disassemble half the luggage compartment to reach the fuse.

Audi has just made ahead solution with the left and right side of the dashboard - the cover that you remove and you have access to the fuses. The same solution and back
In Audi you can replace the SIM card form seat at the driver's or passenger's seat, at Volvo you have to kneel and look under the passenger compartment

In Audi, you can remove head restraints if you have a need, you can use several types of carriers for tablets, in Volvo impossible

Audi does not create bumpers where parts fall out

Audi does not make the internal plastic door trim on which white spots constantly appear

And....and.....and


And that's why VW Group ( Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen) the largest car manufacturer, recognized by customers all over the world
Only 100 production facilities across 27 countries with 11,018,000 cars in (2018)
Audi 11 production facilities in 9 countries 1,879,840 car in 2018


Remove this magnet and then drive the next 10 years with bars on roof with standard ESP
Audi has smart and simple solutions, unlike Volvo

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That Q5 is soooo much better. Anyone want to buy my 2018 XC60? Its super unsafe and the worst. I used to think it was awesome, but I have now seen the light.
Mistakes are made in life, VOLVO IS MY BIGGEST MISTAKES IN LIFE
Are you happy now
 
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