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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm ramping up to work on my '73 1800ES, which came with the factory fuel injection. The PO installed a Weber on it, which is missing some parts. It hasn't run in many years and the gas smells pretty bad. I'm about to remove the fuel tank for a good cleaning and thought I might as well deal with what's left of the injection system before going forward. I think I have most of the original parts, like the manifold, fuel rail and air cleaner. The PO just left everything else in place, pretty much. (The head injector holes are plugged but there are a few hoses that don't seem to be needed.) The Weber is missing a few parts, so rather than put on another one I have, I'm thinking of putting on a pair of SUs. Either way, I don't think I need all the fuel injection equipment still installed but not doing anything. Any suggestions on what to take off and what to keep? Return lines, computer (control unit), pumps, filters, etc.?

Also, if I go with the SUs, does the electric fuel pump need a pressure regulator?

Thanks.
 

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If you want to go with SUs, you can ditch all of the D jet pieces.

Unless you want to wire up a control arrangement for the fuel pump and put in a by-pass style fuel pressure regulator keeping the return line , I would also advise ditching the original electric fuel pump and filter arrangement and install the B20 mechanical fuel pump. The D jet fuel pump will be able to generate way too much pressure without a regulator and you will likely have a hard time finding a by-pass style regulator that can operate in the 1.5 - 3.5 psi range that the SUs can live with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks, Neil. Would a regulator work better on the supply line or return line? I'm planning, at some point, to drive the car at altitude and I'm thinking, maybe wrongly, that an electric pump would work better. I'm not sure why I'm thinking that...
 

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The D jet fuel system would be set up all wrong for a carb. On the D jet the pump is connected directly to the fuel rail and the regulator is mounted on the end (middle in later cars) of the fuel rail. The regulator releases fuel back to the tank via the return line to keep the pressure in the rail at the correct 28-30 psi. The pump tends to run with a constant flow regardless of engine speed. What fuel doesn't get used just gets sent back to the tank via the return line. If the fuel flow ever gets restricted the D jet pump can probably produce fuel pressures over 100 psi which would be a disaster with SUs. The D jet pump absolutely needs a by-pass regulator with a return line so you would have to make some kind of common fuel rail to supply the SUs with the regulator off the end of that rail.

Aeromotive has a by-pass style regulator which they claim can regulate at very low pressures. I know from personal experience that the Aeromotive is extremely sensitive to any back-pressure on the return line so you would have to replumb the existing D jet fuel return line with 3/8" or 7/16" line to minimize back pressure. Based upon my personal experience I cannot recommend the Aeromotive regulator and I don't know of any other by-pass regulators that claim to work at carb fuel pressures.

If you want to go with an electric fuel pump I would use one of those low pressure electric fuel pumps made specifically for use with carbs rather than use the D jet pump. They are cheaper and they do not need a fuel return line. You can put a low pressure limiting regulator on the output of those pumps which doesn't require a return line because those pumps are generally not positive displacement pumps. You would still need to deal with the question of do you want to have the pump running when the key is on; but, the engine is off. The Djet pump doesn't run unless the engine runs. Personally, I would avoid the hassle and go mechanical. At high altitude fuel requirements are lower so I don't see any up-side to an electric pump.
 

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bk;

I absolutely and strongly agree with 142g about the D-Jet FuPu not being suitable (even with low Fuel Pressure Regs) added for use with carbs...an important parameter of the D-Jet is the constant 2Bar pressure in the supply rail, and this was achieved with the high press pump and dump Reg...and the dump Reg had side benefits of continuous filtering and preventing heatsoak of unused fuel...it was just sent back to the tank and circulated.
If you are going to change to carb(s), don't even think about keeping this very special pump, and trying to make it play with the carb(s). I bet even a high quality (non-dump) Fuel Press Reg (like the Malpassi Filter King), would have trouble with the high output pressure...and the dead-head bypass in the pump would be permanently open...

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you Neil and Ron. The mechanical pump sounds like the best choice. I'll strip out all the unnecessary hoses and equipment but probably leave the existing pump wires, unless I can easily get to them. I suppose I'll need to just plug off the return line at the tank. Is it a fitting or welded in hose bung on the tank?
 

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We are dealing with an 1800 rather than a 140, so I am doing a bit of guessing. If its like the 140, there is a screw fitting on the tank for the return line which on the 140 would have an elbow with pipe threads on one side (to fit in the tank) and a barb on the other side to accept the return line hose. The elbow could also be NPT on both ends with a coupler to a short section of metal tube which then accepts the 5/16" return line hose. Doesn't particularly matter. You should be able to just unscrew the return line fitting on the tank and plug it with an NPT plug. Of course this is based upon the early 140 construction and you have an 1800 which presumably complies with the 1972 or 1973 crash requirements for the fuel tank so things could be different.

Definitely leave the wiring for the fuel pump in place. On the 140 I recall that it is integrated into the tail light harness so removal is not a realistic option.
 

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I'm ramping up to work on my '73 1800ES, which came with the factory fuel injection. The PO installed a Weber on it, which is missing some parts. It hasn't run in many years and the gas smells pretty bad. I'm about to remove the fuel tank for a good cleaning and thought I might as well deal with what's left of the injection system before going forward. I think I have most of the original parts, like the manifold, fuel rail and air cleaner. The PO just left everything else in place, pretty much. (The head injector holes are plugged but there are a few hoses that don't seem to be needed.) The Weber is missing a few parts, so rather than put on another one I have, I'm thinking of putting on a pair of SUs. Either way, I don't think I need all the fuel injection equipment still installed but not doing anything. Any suggestions on what to take off and what to keep? Return lines, computer (control unit), pumps, filters, etc.?

Also, if I go with the SUs, does the electric fuel pump need a pressure regulator?

Thanks.

Does this mean you HAVE all the D-Jet gear that originally came with the car? (You don't need the injectors, more on that below)

Cleaning the tank and fuel lines is somewhat SOP to getting any old car, particularly a D-Jet, running as you want to start diagnosing from a known point. ( I have resurrected 2 x D-jet 1800ES cars and 1 x LH Jetronic B230 and always started with a small temporary tank and a new filter)

Ron and 142guy have spoken to these particular points and fuel pressure etc in depth, but from a "originality" and "performance" point of view ....

ORIGINALITY, If you have any intention of ever selling the car and getting top dollar for it, (unless it's 142guy's 142) the original D-Jet does add value. Opening the hood of a vintage Volvo(ADD MODEL NUMBER HERE) and not seeing the appropriate SU's or Bosch Fuel Injection cues the sad trombones for me .... Side Draft Webers or Solex (offered by Volvo Performance Services) and a small smile, a weber DGV and a tear.

NOTE, The Beck Arnly Injectors are cheap and work very well (can be found for $50-$60 a piece.) So if you have the injector holders and the other D-Jet gear, this maybe the cheapest way to add value to the car and restore to original performance. Also connectors that fit the injectors (AND OTHER D-Jet components except the ECU) are easily built for a few dollars of parts from DigiKey and looks original when repairing or building a harness

PERFORMANCE The SU's are a clear step above the $500 DGVWeber, and will look somewhat "factory" even on a "E" car, but will not improve performance above what the original D-Jet provides. If tuned and maintained properly the D-jet is just as reliable, as the SU's, and will offer a better range consitent performance at different temperatures, altitudes etc. If you want to improve the performance you should consider a pair of DCOE Webers and a slightly larger exhaust. (Slightly larger exhaust dosn't hurt the twin SU's either)

If you do want to go with the SU's (or DCOE Webers) the original style fuel pump is an in expensive item. Have you have any vintage Volvo's before? Are you familiar with the parts suppliers like IPD, VP, etc, etc, ?

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/536...ncludes-insulating-spacer-aftermarket-2c0249k
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the good info, scaramoucheii. I think I have all the D-jet gear but I've never owned one or really looked one over, so there may be parts missing. It looks like anything that was originally attached to the body is still there. Pump, filter, expansion tank, lines, etc. It came with the manifold, brace, fuel rail and air cleaner loose on the back floor. I don't know what else in involved or could be missing. A down-draft Weber is currently mounted to the engine. The previous owner left it this way and the car has been sitting outside for many years. At this point, I just want to get the body work done (hit in the RR by the lights and already done crude body work to replace the nose and RF fender that I'll need to redo.) I want to drive and enjoy the car but rehabbing the fuel injection system would add a lot of work. I'm still weighing my options on that, hence this thread. ;)

I have a lot of car experience but am relatively new to Volvos. I've been collecting parts for a '65 Amazon 220 build but this 1800 popped up and distracted me. I'm on it first, it seems. Just trying to get a direction for parts gathering and work steps. I did get a second car ('72) with this one but my daughter's boyfriend has it for now. There is a complete, as far as I know, D-jet system on that car that he may or may not use. He hasn't paid me for it yet, so I might get it back at some point. I'm not totally interested in a restoration, per se, but do want something nice for a daily driver beside my truck. :)
 

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so with your car experience, and the availability of additional D-Jet parts to swap out to test functionality, I would be inclined to investigate just restoring the D-jet system, the Downdraft Weber is functional but uninspired,

Apart from the ECU most components are easily tested on a workbench with a multimeter.

Have a look at the D-jet Trouble shooting manual here, read through, it will help you with the second car and to help you make a final decision of restoring the D-jet on the first

http://volvo1800pictures.com/sweden/Volvo_1800_dokumentation_misc_en.php
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If I knew why the PO put the Weber on, that would be helpful. But he's been dead for a decade, according to his wife. She said the car was started quite often as it sat but I'm skeptical. If the other car gets hot rodded, I'll certainly save the fuel system. Thanks for all the input. I have plenty to consider when I get farther along.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

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Most people who ditch the D jet do so because they are not willing to invest the time to read the trouble shooting manual or they dislike doing 'electrical things'. A major Achilles heal of ageing D jet systems is deterioration or incorrect adjustment of the throttle position switch and deterioration of the wiring at the connectors which leads to flakey operation. This does require some wiring skills to fix and that you be reasonably competent with a ohmmeter / voltmeter / continuity tester for checking operation of components.

If you check out that link that scaramoucheii provided you will find the trouble shooting manual which shows all the parts for the D jet. You can use it to figure out whether you have a complete system or whether parts have gone AWOL. I can pretty much guarantee you that if the parts have been sitting around in a box for a few years you are probably looking at a new set of injectors for sure. Whether you want to retrofit the D jet will depend on how important originality is for you. I do admit that if somebody handed me a box of old dusty D jet parts with no knowledge that they actually worked when they were salvaged from the car, I would not be super keen to take on the project of trying to retrofit them. It would be different if I at least knew that the parts actually worked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Most people who ditch the D jet do so because they are not willing to invest the time to read the trouble shooting manual or they dislike doing 'electrical things'. A major Achilles heal of ageing D jet systems is deterioration or incorrect adjustment of the throttle position switch and deterioration of the wiring at the connectors which leads to flakey operation. This does require some wiring skills to fix and that you be reasonably competent with a ohmmeter / voltmeter / continuity tester for checking operation of components.

If you check out that link that scaramoucheii provided you will find the trouble shooting manual which shows all the parts for the D jet. You can use it to figure out whether you have a complete system or whether parts have gone AWOL. I can pretty much guarantee you that if the parts have been sitting around in a box for a few years you are probably looking at a new set of injectors for sure. Whether you want to retrofit the D jet will depend on how important originality is for you. I do admit that if somebody handed me a box of old dusty D jet parts with no knowledge that they actually worked when they were salvaged from the car, I would not be super keen to take on the project of trying to retrofit them. It would be different if I at least knew that the parts actually worked.
I'm okay with wiring, maybe not so much with electronic troubleshooting. But I'm trainable. :) On the parts I got, which are now in a box but were scattered on the back floor, there are no injectors. Not sure on any hardware. Cleaning up what is there isn't the problem, it's not knowing what was wrong in the first place. You got that right. Given the crude body work (replacement RF fender was welded on top of old fender, then excessively Bondoed) there's no telling what the fuel injection issue was. Maybe adjustment or maintenance. Maybe failure? It seems the shortest route to roadworthy would be put on my other Weber or a good set of SUs and a manual pump. At the very least, I'll pull and flush the tank and replace the fuel line(s). I do appreciate all the input. This place is great. I've been mostly lurking for my Amazon project. Good info, as always.
 

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Typically with the D-Jet system, if a wire to the Throttle position sensor breaks, or to the distributor contacts (for example) people damm the entire system and rip it out, when a bit of investigation and a connector repair would easily solve the problem.

If the ECU is working, and you go through the Trouble Shooting guide and tune the system from scratch to a starting baseline, the car will start, or try to, then stop after it warms up, or gets easier to start after it warms up, and you have some clues to go around the trouble shooting spiral again.

As you say you don't have the injectors, not an issue as you would want to get those cleaned anyway, and the Beck Arnly with free shipping from Summit Racing is about the same price as having the old bosch ones cleaned, and they may not pass muster still. But what you do need are the Injector Holders. So check the box of parts for those.

They look like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Bosc...-F-1800ES-140E-142-144-145-RARE-/303011781096

Also you should get a inexpensive Fuel Pressure gauge, The 0-60 psi is fine for the D-Jet system, as you really need to set the regulator to 2 bar as that is calibrated into the fuel quantity in the ECU

https://www.summitracing.com/search...-injectors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-800160
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So on further review, it looks like all the wiring is there, as well as the parts on the RF fender skirt like the pressure sensor and relays. I dug out the box of parts and I do have the injectors and injector holders. Would probably replace them, at any rate. It looks like all the sensors are there, as well, although at this point there's no way of knowing if they still work. Everything is fairly corroded. The car has AC and the bottom bracket is very close to the mechanical fuel pump mounting boss. Some modification would be in order. Interesting how trying to simplify things can make them more challenging, er, fun. :)
 

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bk;

Sensors are easy to check with an Ohmmeter (and testing them over the working temp range by placing them in hot water cant hurt. See Green fatory manual for Resistance Range vs. Temp charts), pins and connector are simple to clean, inspect and if necessary rehab (or depending on what is revealed, make the call to replace)...there is an outfit which cleans and flowtests Injectors which has been highly spoken of...I don't recall the name right now (someone who does can chime in with experience and contact details) plan to use them before considering replacing.

Replace Injector seals which cause vacuum leaks. Use a dab of ACZP on cleaned connector pins to lubricate and protect these.

Clean inside of TPS with nothing more abrasive than a cotton swab, and resist the urge to abrade the "comb contacts", drag switch contacts can be cleaned with paper and Deoxit. DO NOT BEND or otherwise "adjust" internal contacts thinking you are doing something good...you will likely only be exacerbating the "Miss at Cruise" symptom! (See: http://www.sw-em.com/Deoxit_D5_Additional.htm#TPS_Maintenance )

If you are planning on rehabing the D-Jet system and putting it back into service, read and inform yourself with all the info available...and after all this time, there is plenty!...it is after all, the grand-daddy of all modern and current injections systems...even the Motronic Systems with multiple O2 sensors!...that's why I also recommend the book ( Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management by Charles Probst, Published by Robert Bentley Publishers SB ISBN 0-8376-0300-5 Theory of operation, development, and practical troubleshooting information. An excellent reference for D-Jetronic, K-Jetronic and later vehicles. ) in addition to all that's out there (including bad info like "arcing at the wiper contacts of TPS"), my own notes are here: http://www.sw-em.com/bosch_d-jetronic_injection.htm

Finally, the D-Jet ECU is the LAST thing you should consider replacing when the system does not work right!

Good Hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Ron, great info. Thanks. It looks like the only component missing, so far, is the gas evaporite control system (no part number.) Is that the same as the carbon filter (460095 or 460170)? Is it necessary? The line to it in the parts book appears to come from the expansion tank. I will need to get the car through emissions before registering it and I'm not sure how picky they'll be about original equipment or if that piece helps with the emissions.

I spent some time under the car yesterday and found the front body work to be very crudely done, maybe from the late '90s. Much worse than I initially thought. I'll need to make sure my tetanus vaccination is current before tackling some of it. Several jagged, rusty edges. So now I'll need to weigh how far I want to take this. My Amazon needs rust repair but doesn't appear to be such a mess body-work wise.

Also, how difficult is it to remove the metal plugs in the injector holes in the head?
 

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I have been missing the charcoal evap canister on my 140 since 2014, in part because it was plugged up. The engine runs fine without it. What you will notice on hot days is 'essence de gaz' as the fumes in the tank heat up and expand venting through what should have been the evap canister. Makes for a stink. You can't block the line off because that is the vent for admitting air to the tank as the fuel level drops. I have been looking for a suitable charcoal canister to retrofit to the car to eliminate the stink; but, no luck so far. If you need the Evap canister to pass the visual inspection you might be able to score one from a 200 or 700 series Volvo. I think the plumbing is sort of similar although these cars have a vacuum operated purge valve (I think no electric controls required if you stick to pre 1988) so you probably need to pick up a vacuum signal from a manifold tap. The 200 and 700 evaps seem to come up as 'no longer available' if you search so your best source might be a trip to a pick and pull (200 and 700 series are incredibly rare salvage vehicles where I am). I did find this one. Its for 1988 + 740

https://www.volvooftorontoparts.ca/...MIgcrP4O7s4gIV0wOGCh0Hwg33EAYYASABEgIrZvD_BwE

but I think it uses an electric solenoid valve which you want to avoid. It looks more complicated than what I remember from my 1987 745 T which didn't use the solenoid valve as I recall.

The company that Ron was referring to for injector cleaning was probably RC Fuel

https://www.rcfuelinjection.com/

although as scaramoucheii pointed out, you can have new Beck Arnley injectors for about the same price as cleaning and shipping.

I think the plugs for the injector holes are left up to the creativity of the owner. I have heard of owners using small versions of the plugs that are used to fill in the large casting holes on the side of the engine block. These are installed by setting the plug in the hole and tapping it with a hammer to deform the plug slightly locking it in the hole. In order to remove it you drill a hole in the center of the plug. This may be enough to release the retention pressure; but, if not you hook something sturdy in the hole and yank. With the small plugs you can probably drill a hole, feed in #10 or #12 sheet metal screw and yank on the screw. I have also heard of anal retentive people using Loctite bearing mounting on the plugs before setting them in. That could make removal more interesting.

Two rust specials at once! That is a treat. Based upon your description of the special double fender I would be inclined to get the Amazon fixed up and finished. Trying to do both at the same time may result in project fatigue and financial depletion. Best to have one completed car rather than two partials forever. If you still have the inclination and money you can do the 1800 later or perhaps somebody else who likes rust will come along and offer you good $ (daughter's boyfriend?).
 

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Guys;

The bottom screen of Gas Evap can, is often rotten allowing loss of the internal carbon granules...after repairing or replacing (there was a thread on this in one of the fora, where I seem to remember the repair was done by replacing, possibly by soldering a brass screen onto the bottom...I recommend a search for this thread), missing granules obviously need to be replaced...what to use, and where to source?...it seems to me that the granules looked remarkably like those I see for aquarium filter service (no kiddin', and these are available in bulk!), so that's what I'd look at using...as far as the lines and hook-up, that should is covered in detail in the factory green manual.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ron,

I searched on the evap cans but nothing came up in this forum. Was it on a different model?
 
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