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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Rear end links: http://amzn.com/B001KSE0C0
Sway bar: http://www.racingbeat.com/Mazda-3/Sway-Bars/74101.html



Step 1:
Remove these guys:

and


Step 2:
Remove these:

and


Step 3:
Install the new end links (the bottom part in the image goes into the sway bar):


Step 4:
Attach the new sway bar to the new end links:


Step 5:
Grease the bushings, slip them on, and then bolt everything up:


Here's a comparison of the old and new sway bars:


The new sway bar is a solid 27mm diameter bar!
 

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Any reason for going to the other style of endlinks, or just because that's the only way that the Mazda bar comes?
 

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Any reason for going to the other style of endlinks, or just because that's the only way that the Mazda bar comes?
That's the only reason. All madras came with vertical end links only

Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk while on the toilet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Now is anyone going to try the Front Bar ?
I was thinking about the front bar, as they are supposed to be a matched pair. thebeansoldier on mazdas247.com gave a good review using only the rear bar (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123637362-Bean-s-Racing-Beat-(27mm)-vs-Progress-(21mm)-vs-No-Sway-Bar&p=2510961&viewfull=1#post2510961), which pretty much convinced me to try out the rear bar only before going for the front. So far the car handles very well in turns, there's almost no body roll. I was going to try to push the car to the limit over the next few days/weeks and get a feel for when oversteer shows up and how controllable it is under various scenarios.

Any reason for going to the other style of endlinks, or just because that's the only way that the Mazda bar comes?
pczeilon was saying that this style of end links (the kind I installed) are superior, I'm not exactly sure why though. Intuitively, I would think that since the sway bar is a torsion bar, you would want the pin style end links because you don't need to worry about lateral movement. I think the disadvantage of the pin style is that it relies on bushings to allow for some lateral and vertical motion. It has so many bushings in fact, that it might allow for too much motion in pretty much any direction (all the bar has to do is compress the bushings and it can go where it wants to go). As the bar is loaded with more and more force, the bushings will compress more and more. The style of end links that I installed, however, uses two ball joints with a limited range of motion. So once the ball joint moves to one end, it will resist any additional motion entirely, perhaps leading to a firmer more predictable feel.
 

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I was thinking about the front bar, as they are supposed to be a matched pair. thebeansoldier on mazdas247.com gave a good review using only the rear bar (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123637362-Bean-s-Racing-Beat-(27mm)-vs-Progress-(21mm)-vs-No-Sway-Bar&p=2510961&viewfull=1#post2510961), which pretty much convinced me to try out the rear bar only before going for the front. So far the car handles very well in turns, there's almost no body roll. I was going to try to push the car to the limit over the next few days/weeks and get a feel for when oversteer shows up and how controllable it is under various scenarios.

pczeilon was saying that this style of end links (the kind I installed) are superior, I'm not exactly sure why though. Intuitively, I would think that since the sway bar is a torsion bar, you would want the pin style end links because you don't need to worry about lateral movement. I think the disadvantage of the pin style is that it relies on bushings to allow for some lateral and vertical motion. It has so many bushings in fact, that it might allow for too much motion in pretty much any direction (all the bar has to do is compress the bushings and it can go where it wants to go). As the bar is loaded with more and more force, the bushings will compress more and more. The style of end links that I installed, however, uses two ball joints with a limited range of motion. So once the ball joint moves to one end, it will resist any additional motion entirely, perhaps leading to a firmer more predictable feel.
you want to feel the oversteer? go through a slalom. you need to do a quick right to left or vice versa and you will get the car to oversteer. i've done it in a 25 mm bar. it's probably easier with the 27mm bar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The problem is finding a place where I can do that, especially during the day when parking lots are crowded... I have a few more suspension upgrades coming in, so once I get them installed I might try looking for a local track to mess around on or something.

Anyways, what I'm most worried about is oversteer during emergency braking, when the car's weight shifts to the front.
 

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Thanks for the pics. Great price on the rear sway bar. Will bookmark the page for the front sway bar. Of course, I have the ELEVATE rear which is 25mm, so not sure how a ~28mm front sway would affect me versus getting something more matched like a 25mm front. Been thinking about just replacing it with something just a tad less than 25mm so I get a rear bias.
 

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You won't oversteer ever in emergency braking. If the weight shifts to the front, you will have better grip for steering. It's when the weight shifts side to side oversteer will occur hence a slalom will induce it


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pczeilon was saying that this style of end links (the kind I installed) are superior, I'm not exactly sure why though.
The horizontal-type endlinks, which were standard on the 05's and IIRC some of the 06's, are possibly better because they are rigid. The rubber bushings in the vertical-type later ones will deflect under load. Frankly, either style will give you more than adequate performance.

Regarding an upsized front bar, why in the world would you want one? It will *increase* understeer. If that's your goal, then upsizing the rear bar is unnecessary. In any case, replacing the front bar is a huge undertaking. You have to lower the front subframe to get the old one out, and the new one in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You won't oversteer ever in emergency braking.
I don't mean solely emergency braking, I mean emergency braking with steering correction. Thus, unloading the rear so there's reduced traction in the back, and then making a sharp turn.

The horizontal-type endlinks, which were standard on the 05's and IIRC some of the 06's, are possibly better because they are rigid. The rubber bushings in the vertical-type later ones will deflect under load. Frankly, either style will give you more than adequate performance.
Yea, pczeilon said Volvo brought back the "old" style endlinks for the 2011 C30 R-design.

Regarding an upsized front bar, why in the world would you want one?
Well the bars come as a matched pair from Racing Beat for a reason. If the rear bar causes too much rear bias, the front bar may be required to bring the vehicle back to neutral (perhaps with a very slight tendency towards understeer). A more neutral vehicle would result in better cornering ability, and you would have further reduced body roll.
 

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Well the bars come as a matched pair from Racing Beat for a reason. If the rear bar causes too much rear bias, the front bar may be required to bring the vehicle back to neutral (perhaps with a very slight tendency towards understeer). A more neutral vehicle would result in better cornering ability, and you would have further reduced body roll.
I was thinking about this too, now this bar is only 2mm more than what Elevate offers, however I was thinking that the 27mm might be overkill? Our cars must be heavier than the Mazda 3 though, especially if the car is AWD. I think this might make the larger bar a better fit for our car than the Mazda 3.
 

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Well the bars come as a matched pair from Racing Beat for a reason. If the rear bar causes too much rear bias, the front bar may be required to bring the vehicle back to neutral (perhaps with a very slight tendency towards understeer). A more neutral vehicle would result in better cornering ability, and you would have further reduced body roll.
Matched for what vehicle? It's not about the bars, it's about the whole car. And, about the owner's goals. I guess if you want a car that stays perfectly flat at all times, transferring cornering load to just 2 wheels, then sure. Many autocrossers actually remove their front bar altogether, to do the opposite.

Bars increase stiffness as the 4th power of their diameter, btw. A couple of mm makes a BIG difference. I have the Elevate rear bar in my V50, and the stock bar in the front, and am comletely satisfied with the result. I previously had the IPD rear bar, and felt it was too soft however.
 

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Regarding an upsized front bar, why in the world would you want one? It will *increase* understeer. If that's your goal, then upsizing the rear bar is unnecessary. In any case, replacing the front bar is a huge undertaking. You have to lower the front subframe to get the old one out, and the new one in.
Actually stiffer rear bar will increase oversteer while stiffer front bar will increase understeer. :)
As our cars are tuned for understeer and you usually want slight oversteer for sportier driving using stiffer rear bar and keeping front stock is the way to go.

http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html

Bars increase stiffness as the 4th power of their diameter, btw. A couple of mm makes a BIG difference. I have the Elevate rear bar in my V50, and the stock bar in the front, and am comletely satisfied with the result. I previously had the IPD rear bar, and felt it was too soft however.
+1
Elevate rear bar and stock front works perfectly for me as well.
 

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I don't mean solely emergency braking, I mean emergency braking with steering correction. Thus, unloading the rear so there's reduced traction in the back, and then making a sharp turn.

Yea, pczeilon said Volvo brought back the "old" style endlinks for the 2011 C30 R-design.

Well the bars come as a matched pair from Racing Beat for a reason. If the rear bar causes too much rear bias, the front bar may be required to bring the vehicle back to neutral (perhaps with a very slight tendency towards understeer). A more neutral vehicle would result in better cornering ability, and you would have further reduced body roll.
When you unload the rear in a situation like that, use the gas pedal to shift the weight back to the rear. I highly recommend you go to an auto x and have an instructor drive your car. He or she will definitely put your car in oversteer at the slaloms. And you can probably try to do your emergency braking there and see how much under steer you will get.

The way you describe an "emergency" brake like that will end up mostly in under steer. One because the weight is at the front and you want to do 2 quick turns. For oversteer to induce, you want smooth turns while the weight is in front.

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Actually stiffer rear bar will increase oversteer while stiffer front bar will increase understeer. :)
As our cars are tuned for understeer and you usually want slight oversteer for sportier driving using stiffer rear bar and keeping front stock is the way to go.
That's exactly what I said. Upsizing the front bar takes the car in the wrong direction. Agreed.
 
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