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Real winter driving... not so intuitive

10K views 63 replies 34 participants last post by  hfwilkesjr 
#1 ·
Here in the midwest we are getting hammered last several days with almost 20" of snow and about an inch of ice in there. I went out Saturday and was promptly immobilized at an intersection where there was some drifting snow. Stupid me I guess, but the auto parking brake was on, and the park assist was going nuts picking up snow drifts all over. Car also kept telling me to clean the sensors because they were blocked. Yes, it's snowing and nasty, I get the sensors are blocked, no need to tell me. Anyway, flipped through the menus and turned traction control off, park assist off, auto brake off, and away we went. Seems silly to have to do all these things. Since then, car seems a bit better about alerting adjacent snow. But still, seems silly for the vehicle to have all these alerts and not have some option that says "HEY, YES, IT'S SNOWING, STOP BUGGING ME".

Other than that, it's been getting around very well, provided the traction control and park assist stay off. Perhaps a bit over engineered and underthought for a Swedish vehicle that should anticipate arctic conditions?
 
#4 ·
But, why would you turn traction control off, aren't those exactly the type of conditions where you want traction control? I.e. How was it misbehaving?
According to the owner's manual, http://esd.volvocars.com/local/us/Volvo-2016-XC90-Owners-Manual-v3.pdf

Electronic Stability Control (ESC)
sport mode
ESC is always activated and cannot be switched
off.
However, the driver can select Sport mode,
which offers more active driving characteristics.
In Sport mode, the engine management system
monitors movement of the accelerator pedal and
steering wheel for sportier driving and allows
more lateral movement of the rear wheels before
ESC is triggered.
Under certain circumstances, such as when driving
with snow chains, or driving in deep snow or
loose sand, it may be advisable to temporarily use
Sport mode for maximum tractive force.

If the driver releases pressure on the accelerator
pedal, ETC will also activate to help stabilize the
vehicle.
Activating/deactivating Sport mode
In the center display's Function
view, tap ESC Sport Mode.
The green indicator light in the
button will illuminate to show
that the function has been activated
or gray when the function
is deactivated.
When Sport mode is activated, this
symbol will illuminate in the instrument
panel. It will remain on until the driver
deactivates the function. ETC will also
return to normal mode when the engine is restarted.
Related information
• Electronic
 
#3 · (Edited)
First, people complain they don't have it. Then, they complain they have to turn it of when they get annoyed by the system.
There is no way to win.

The owner's manual clearly stated that drift slow will blind the sensors and cause issues, there are 91 times the owner manual mentioned snow and 31 instance it mentioned ice.

http://esd.volvocars.com/local/us/Volvo-2016-XC90-Owners-Manual-v3.pdf
 
#5 ·
First, people complain they don't have it. Then, they complain they have to turn it of when they get annoyed by the system.
There is no way to win.
There should be a way, the system just needs to be better or smarter.

My first experience with Volvo parking sensors in a loaner was extremely annoying. I'd be stopped at a light, not moving at all, and the front sensors went off for no reason, the stereo mutes, etc. Later was then in a fast food lane, stopped and somebody walked out crossing in front of me and it again went off and muted the stereo. VERY Annoying.

We've got wipers that can sense rain, I'd think using temp sensors or something there should be a way to make these sensors smarter or 'maybe' even auto disable themselves when they know they can't actually work. We use to have headlight wipers, maybe it's time for sensor wipers or even heaters to melt whatever builds up on them?

I don't follow any other brands. I'm curious if anybody knows of people reporting similar issues on other cars in other brand forums?
 
#9 ·
Well, I would think you would reach for some source of information - manual, dealer staff, Internet - when you have a question about how something operates. Or do you believe that the operationn of all things automotive should be intuitively obvious? If the point of sale terminals at retail stores are just different enough to make me fumble the process half the time then I think it's pretty good when 99% of the equipment on my car needs zero explanation.
 
#11 ·
I still don't understand why you'd want to turn off traction control. I'm curious about the technical reasons, not what the manual says. If you're loosing traction on ice, then regulating power to various wheels should help you get moving, or stay on track. So how does driving in snow change this? If a wheel is stuck or spinning, again you'd want wheels that have traction to get the power.

Does anyone out there understand AWD and traction control systems well enough to explain? I'm coming from an old school part-time 4wd 4Runner, so this stuff is new to me. I'd also assumed that modern AWD with traction control would be better at choosing where to send power than 4wd, at least on the road.
 
#12 ·
You do NOT want to turn ESC off...ESC and AWD will keep your vehicle stable and provide best traction in snowy conditions.
 
#15 ·
going down the road in a couple inches of snow ESC is great if you hit black ice or the accumulation between lanes it can react far quicker than you can. But if the snow is touching bottom of the car and you can get going much better if you turn it of. That's been the one thing that has been universal in all the AWD cars I've owned.

I think the problem is that when your stuck in snow drifts or very deep snow the wheels spin so ESC sends it to another wheel that also spins and all the while it varies power trying to get some traction and stop spinning, when you turn off traction control all wheels spin but they also all offer the slightest bit of traction. My g35x sedan has been stuck twice in the brutal winters we've had the last couple years and it never fails to shut off the traction control to get unstuck and I never have to even leave the car.
 
#23 ·
Guys the suggestion I should read the manual, kinda silly. The manual will not tell me how to get unstuck in drifting snow. All I thought as mentioned is there should be a poor weather condition mode to activate. Seems simple enough. I watched my wife get completely stuck simply trying to get out of our driveway. I jumped in, disabled traction control, engaged off road mode, and away I went. Nothing in the manual on that. The car is awesome, but maybe over engineered in some cases, not unreasonable for a swedish vehicle to have built in options for winter conditions.
 
#26 ·
Well, it seems you have two issues, one with sensors being blocked with associated warnings and the other about traction.

The manual does say to engage sport mode in deep snow, did you try that?

And for these new cars with very complex systems, we DO need to read the manuals. The effects of a single button push can affect many systems in ways you don't know about. These aren't simple manual transmissions with locking hubs (simple mechanical connections). Each button has intentions behind it, the manual indicates what those intentions are. Would you ever have thought to put it in sport mode in deep snow? Well the manual says to do it. Give it a try.
 
#27 ·
If you can manage it, the best thing to do with any new/unfamiliar car is find a safe place, like an empty unplowed parking lot, and see how it handles in the snow. It's fun, will give you confidence, and make you a better driver in the nasty weather. And turn the sensors off if the snow is setting them off at low speeds. I think from OP's description, which I just reread, his wife got tried to plow through the snow in the driveway and was moving slowly enough that the sensors bleeped at her due to the deep snow around/on them. In this situation my wife, already nervous about the weather and the new car would get quite frustrated.
 
#47 ·
If you can manage it, the best thing to do with any new/unfamiliar car is find a safe place, like an empty unplowed parking lot, and see how it handles in the snow. It's fun, will give you confidence, and make you a better driver in the nasty weather. And turn the sensors off if the snow is setting them off at low speeds.
+1

Last weekend we took our CX90 up our local mountains for the first skiing day of the season (yes, winter started up mighty slow here in Switzerland this year), and the car behaved flawlessly in fresh snow. Didn't turn anything off, but have to admit I had the same issues with the sensors which went wild. Best part was when I took it for a spin on a large empty parking area covered in a good 20cm (about 8") of fresh snow. The XC90 never felt hesitant en accelerated faster than I had expected it to in the fresh stuff. Few small slips here and there, but comfortable. Once I was done, a bright blue Wrangler Unlimited blasted its way around the parking area and, needless to say, had even less problems. Quite a spectacular sight :)
 
#28 ·
Has anyone gotten a chance to take a T8 out in some snow? I'm wondering how it will manage without a drive shaft and just the electric motor in the back.
Like Northeast said best way to find out how your car handles in bad conditions it to take it to an empty parking lot ( have mine picked out)
 
#29 ·
Yes - though not a significant amount of it (mild winter here in New England).

Not sure what you mean about the comment without a drive shaft.

When you put the T8 into AWD mode it starts the engine and you get power to the front and rear wheels. Subjectively this vehicle has much better traction than the 2013 XC90 that it replaced. Will need to play more when we have more than just an inch or two of snow ...
 
#33 · (Edited)
We just got our share of winter snow these past few days and I'd say our car's been giving a whole lot of bad sensors alert on the side, especially the front, upon checking there was a small very, very small snow accumulation on the front sensors that's causing it to beep every once in a while to the point of annoying the hell out of me. I just wish I could turn it off. No complain about the driving aspect since our roads are pretty much clean.

AAAAANNNDDD... I don't know if it's a good thing or not, depending on the person I guess, but our auto start/stop function seems to completely stop. I'm guessing it's the cold but I really don't know and I'm too lazy to know since I kinda like it. :D
 
#34 ·
AAAAANNNDDD... I don't know if it's a good thing or not, depending on the person I guess, but our auto start/stop function seems to completely stop. I'm guessing it's the cold but I really don't know and I'm too lazy to know since I kinda like it. :D
Interesting. The car may disable auto start/stop when it drops below a certain temperature outside.
 
#35 ·
Wow....turning traction control off in certain situations improves traction!?!?! Talk about stating the obvious.....this has been the rule of thumb since the introduction of traction control. There cars traction control is not smart enough/to smart for itself? Um.....can you name a AWD car that doesn't work in this manner? Jeez, talk about complaining about something trivial.... The manual clearly gives you scenarios as to when and why it should be turned off. People act as if this is some revelation, or if their Jeep or X5 or Escalade doesn't operate in the exact same way......

And you don't want parking sensors to see snow?!? It's an obstacle, like when it's frozen into a chunk of ice and would demolish your bumper if you parked to close to a snow drift. So now we are sad we have to turn off parking sensors in the snow!?! Again, can you name a manufacturer that includes parking sensors which doesn't operate in this manner (and is described in the owners manual?!?)

Some of you seem to just wish for the moon. Oh, and turn auto brake off on slick roads (where it probably has the greatest chance of reducing a serious accident)?!?!? Brilliant!! I'm sure Volvo, coming from the land of snow and ice (aka Sweden) totally forgot to test out auto brake in winter and now has made your commute dangerous.....seriously?!?
 
#37 ·
Wow....turning traction control off in certain situations improves traction!?!?! Talk about stating the obvious.....this has been the rule of thumb since the introduction of traction control. There cars traction control is not smart enough/to smart for itself? Um.....can you name a AWD car that doesn't work in this manner? Jeez, talk about complaining about something trivial.... The manual clearly gives you scenarios as to when and why it should be turned off. People act as if this is some revelation, or if their Jeep or X5 or Escalade doesn't operate in the exact same way......

And you don't want parking sensors to see snow?!? It's an obstacle, like when it's frozen into a chunk of ice and would demolish your bumper if you parked to close to a snow drift. So now we are sad we have to turn off parking sensors in the snow!?! Again, can you name a manufacturer that includes parking sensors which doesn't operate in this manner (and is described in the owners manual?!?)

Some of you seem to just wish for the moon. Oh, and turn auto brake off on slick roads (where it probably has the greatest chance of reducing a serious accident)?!?!? Brilliant!! I'm sure Volvo, coming from the land of snow and ice (aka Sweden) totally forgot to test out auto brake in winter and now has made your commute dangerous.....seriously?!?
Speaking of frozen, I see that Captain Volvo's Kool Aid hasn't frozen yet. What's worse? The complainers about the cars, or the complainers about the complainers? Hmm? LOL
 
#39 ·
I have seen that start stop does not go on until the car reaches a certain warmth.

I noticed that the heat intensity will drop when the engine goes off at a stop I assume to preserve the battery

When the car is really cold it's disabled possibly so that you get comfortable faster

That would be my guess
 
#40 ·
Too bad the "complainer about the complainer" is stating 100% indisputable facts! Logic clearly dismisses every complaint here without any opinion. Geez...... and it's sooooooo shocking you of all people would post something negative about my post. Can I turn you off like my traction control Bmo Pete and have a better result?!?! A guy can dream..... Apparently even if you don't own a Volvo you are still drinking Volvo Kool Aid....nice. Exactly when and how can I no longer be branded a "Volvo fan boy" and just a poster putting up facts?
 
#46 ·
Tool- again for the record. I am not complaining. I can handle the car. My purpose was to provide constructive feedback. It's an extremely fine vehicle. With all the electronic smarts, my initial point was to say there are better ways to interface. Can you grab a xanax and calm down now?
 
#42 ·
It's an automobile. An inanimate object made of metals, plastics and rubber. You don't need to respond as if someone is attacking your family. People paid good hard earned money for these vehicles; they have every right to be unhappy and/or complain when something malfunctions or operates illogically.

Since you are the self appointed Ambassador of Volvo Corp, try welcoming new owners to the fold. Offer solutions, advise or your understanding of Volvo philosophy to help others..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#44 ·
I can now confirm that the auto start/stop feature does indeed deactivate below certain temperatures. This morning, it was close to 0° F. The engine did not turn off when stopped, despite having the car in "Comfort" mode.
 
#54 ·
First morning of this latest "Blizz-illa" is also the first snow/ice for my new XC90. Six flakes here in Central North Carolina is reason to stop commerce and society as we know it.
I love the remote start. I love the heated windshield. Traction Control was smooth and consistent. Sailed passed several high-rise 4X4s in the ditch. Hills and icy back roads no problem.
A true Countrypolitan Cruiser. But like I said, NC may not be a real challenge.
 
#55 ·
Great! I hope to hear from other owners on how their cars are doing in the blizzard when it hits. Be safe if you absolutely must drive! ...My gauge is if the Chinese take out restaurant isn't open or making deliveries, it is way too dangerous to be out and about!!!
 
#60 ·
I'm tempted to go dig my car out of the 26 or so inches of snow we got here but doubt I'm going to bother with it today. Really curious to try it out though.

I just reread the OP and realized this was something I had wondered about when I bought the car. With all the drive modes available, why not have a snow/ice mode? The logic is probably that it is unnecessary but clearly we are quickly seeing the necessity. And it is a distinct set of functions from "off-road" or "sport".

What I would really like more than anything is the ability to program multiple individual drive modes, and have the drive mode implicate all the functions kenhoeve listed- parking sensors, traction control etc.
 
#61 ·
I really like the idea of a predefined snow/ice mode, particularly for the T8. It would be a useful enhancement for my wife who will be an infrequent driver of the XC90. She prefers simple and reads novels not manuals like me. :rave:
 
#63 ·
Well I spent almost two hours digging out just the front end and enough of the drivers side to get into the car. I got the bad side of the street that had about a three foot thick wall of snow plowed up against the car so I got tired and anxious to get out of the spot. Ordinarily would have dug much more out but I thought, just give it a try. Set the car up as OP notes, esc off, park assist off, off-road mode. Drove out with zero hesitation or problems. Very impressed and happy with that.
 
#64 ·
That's what I forgot, ESC off! Thanks for the reminder. Still worked great yesterday and the day before.
 
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