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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,<p>I am posting this question for a friend of mine who I turned on to the S60 R. He loves the car but he wanted to know how the R drives in the snow as opposed to a 3.2 Audi A4 quarto. <p>He was looking at an SUV because he goes skiing a lot however he lives here in Southern California and will really only be driving once in awhile in the ice and snow... therefore no SUV for him. <p>Other then replacing the crappy stock tires can anyone share their personal experiences on how the R handles in icy and snowy conditions?<p>Also I love the look of the sports package and I told him to get it but he’s afraid it will be more of a pain than its worth… especially in the snow. <p>Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. <br>
 

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Re: R in the snow? (JimLill)

Rock-solid w/dedicated snows. Incredibly planted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

Thanks guys... what about with all-season tires? Also does the sports kit cause any problems?
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>robert_in_ca</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks guys... what about with all-season tires? Also does the sports kit cause any problems?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>With <B>good</B> all seasons (Michelin Pilot Sport All Season, etc.) the car is awesome in the snow. A step behind dedicated snows, but excellent nonetheless. <p>Can't help you with the sport kit.
 

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I drive t work and back 150Kms in one of Canada's worst winter storm area (Barrie Ontario). My R with snowsport 240, is absolutely awesome. It goes, stops and handles better than anything I've ever driven! Snow, freezing rain, ice, slush, ruts...nothing phases this car, even at high speeds on the highway. One caution: the Pegs can accumulate snow, ice and sand on their wide rims and give the effect of unbalanced wheels, until you get out and clear them. A minor irritation. I would recommend this car for any winter driving. I would keep dedicated snow tires on the car whenever snow (or cold temperatures) are expected. As a winter vehicle, this car is awesome!
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>robert_in_ca</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Other then replacing the crappy stock tires can anyone share their personal experiences on how the R handles in icy and snowy conditions?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Whoa...just to be clear...<p>The crappy stock tires are summer only high performance tires. The fact that they are crappy has nothing to do with their inability to work effectively in snow (and vice versa). If they are replaced with non-crappy summer only high performance tires, your friend will find that they are, in fact, crappy in the snow. He will also possibly wind up in a ditch, upside down, wrapped around a tree or in someone's front lawn, pool or doghouse.<p>There are two solutions, both of which are trade-offs of sorts...<p>1) Buy a good set of all-seasons for year-round use. An all-season tire is a compromise tire. Period. It excels at nothing but mediocrity. And, that's exactly what it's meant to do.<p>2) Buy a set a 2nd set of tires: either dedicated snow or all-season tires to use during the winter season when snow might be an issue. The only real trade-off here is cost, but it does offer the best of both worlds (depending upon what and how your friend plans on driving the R).<p>As Jim said, equipped with snows, the R drives like it's on tracks. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>-Eric
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

I haven't compared my R to an A4 in the snow, so can't give a direct impression (above posters don't seem to have tried both either). One thing that might differ is the stability control system. My feeling is that the volvo stability control kicks in a later than my Passat's did, and I think the Passat may share that technology with Audi. It can be a little disconcerting at first in my R, but it does kick in. I don't know if there is any important consequence to that--accident rates for example. Doubtful anyone has data that specific.<p>I've had both pirelli pzero neros all seasons, and dunlop wintersport M3s on in the snow. The Dunlops are better especially on ice, but not dramatically better in the snow per se in my opinion. They ARE dramatically better in terms of the sidehop issue though--95+% gone on those tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: R in the snow? (Sue Esponte)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Whoa...just to be clear...<p>The crappy stock tires are summer only high performance tires. The fact that they are crappy has nothing to do with their inability to work effectively in snow (and vice versa). If they are replaced with non-crappy summer only high performance tires, your friend will find that they are, in fact, crappy in the snow. He will also possibly wind up in a ditch, upside down, wrapped around a tree or in someone's front lawn, pool or doghouse.<p>There are two solutions, both of which are trade-offs of sorts...<p>1) Buy a good set of all-seasons for year-round use. An all-season tire is a compromise tire. Period. It excels at nothing but mediocrity. And, that's exactly what it's meant to do.<p>2) Buy a set a 2nd set of tires: either dedicated snow or all-season tires to use during the winter season when snow might be an issue. The only real trade-off here is cost, but it does offer the best of both worlds (depending upon what and how your friend plans on driving the R).<p>As Jim said, equipped with snows, the R drives like it's on tracks. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>-Eric</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes I know the stock tires are summer/warm weather tires. I also hear from a lot of people that they are crappy (eg. causing rear-end hop, etc). Thanks for the feedback... anything on having the sport package in snow? Thanks again.
 

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Re: R in the snow? (kenschel)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>kenschel</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I haven't compared my R to an A4 in the snow, so can't give a direct impression (above posters don't seem to have tried both either).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I can't compare the R to an A4 but I can compare the R to a TT, which is actually a better comparison since the A4 uses a Torsen differential (Quattro) whereas my TT actually used a Haldex diff closer to the system used in the R.<p>After 3 years of dedicated winter use in the TT, I'd put the two on par with one another and the TT was a freakin' snowmobile in the deep white stuff. I always loved the looks on people's faces when my little red roadster went driving by them in a straight line.<p>-Eric
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

With Conti ExtremeContacts on my '05, it was like driving on studs. Perfect traction always.<p>I'm trusting the PS a/s on my '06 will be similar.
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

My R (outfitted with Michelin Pilot A/S) outperformed my Sequoia in the snow this past winter. (Primarily due to its size and low center of gravity, AWD v. 4x4 & manual trans) Do not drive the R with stock Pirellis - minimally you will need a GOOD all-season tire and ideally if you plan to drive in snowy conditions frequently, dedicated snow tires preferably on 17" rims to accommodate a narrower tread width.<p>In February we received almost 20" of snow in northern NJ in just 1 day and the R performed like a champ - the only drawback was its low clearance so driving through 10+ inches of powder caused the front of the R to act as a snow plow. I was able to easily drive through 16+ inches of fresh snow with complete control & precision.<p>I have decided to keep the A/S tires on year-round and quite honestly, unless you are pushing your car to the limit and know how to do it correctly and successfully, you will not notice a significant difference between a quality A/S and the typical performance tire (let the debate rage...)
 

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Re: R in the snow? (bschurr)

I am glad for those of you who have had good luck running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires in the winter. However, you don't know how much control you forfeit by using A/S tires in winter. I had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires as summer tires on my last two cars - a 1997 850 AWD and a 2001 V70 T5. One spring I mounted the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires too early and got caught in about 20 cm (8 inches) of snow. The 850 awd was frightening, and it had 110 hp less than the R.<p>I also drive that stretch of highway from Barrie to Toronto, and I simply would not make the trip in winter on A/S tires from Michelin or anyone else. In fact, having only recently mounted the Pirelli summer tires, I prefer the handling of the car with its winter tires! Those Pirellis can't wear out fast enough for me.<p>The Michelin Pilot winter tires on the R are pretty good, and I was pleasantly surprised that the lower suspension of the R compared to the 850 awd did not present any problem. However, I did a fair bit of snow ploughing this winter after any substantial snowfall.<p>Neil
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

In general I would not recomend the sport package for driving in winter. BUT if he will only drives on cleared roads (and that is the case unless he does backcountry skiing) then it does not matter much if he get the kit or not.<p>As for tires your friend driving on snow only maybe once a week during the winter it does not make sense to buy snow tires and change them back and forth each time he goes skiing. So the tire should be the right one to stay on the car all winter long.<p>Your friend should not buy "real" winter tires like Bridgestones Blizack (or something like that).<p>Depending on where he lives in CA he has these options:<br>1. if temps stay low (40-50) during the winter then he can buy some winter tires like Dunlop M3 or Pirelli Snowsport. I'm running this way in the winter living around Seattle and skiing in the cascades and at Whistler in Canada.<br>2. if temps are higher then he should get a set of A/S tires for winter.<p>If he gets two set of wheels (as many of us have) or if he changes the tires twice a year or runs A/S all year is only his decision to make. This has to do more with convenience than anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: R in the snow? (doru)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>doru</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In general I would not recomend the sport package for driving in winter. BUT if he will only drives on cleared roads (and that is the case unless he does backcountry skiing) then it does not matter much if he get the kit or not.<p>As for tires your friend driving on snow only maybe once a week during the winter it does not make sense to buy snow tires and change them back and forth each time he goes skiing. So the tire should be the right one to stay on the car all winter long.<p>Your friend should not buy "real" winter tires like Bridgestones Blizack (or something like that).<p>Depending on where he lives in CA he has these options:<br>1. if temps stay low (40-50) during the winter then he can buy some winter tires like Dunlop M3 or Pirelli Snowsport. I'm running this way in the winter living around Seattle and skiing in the cascades and at Whistler in Canada.<br>2. if temps are higher then he should get a set of A/S tires for winter.<p>If he gets two set of wheels (as many of us have) or if he changes the tires twice a year or runs A/S all year is only his decision to make. This has to do more with convenience than anything else.</TD></TR></TABLE>He lives in Malibu... thank you for all the great information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

Thank you guys for all the great info. My buddy lives in Malibu and does only alpine skiing so he will be driving only on plowed roads.
 

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Re: R in the snow? (robert_in_ca)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>robert_in_ca</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you guys for all the great info. My buddy lives in Malibu and does only alpine skiing so he will be driving only on plowed roads. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I live in San Diego and drive to Mammoth, on avereage, about every three weeks during ski season. Oddly enough, this year I have missed the big dumps up there, but even then, it is is always plowed, maybe 5-6 inches on the ground at any given time and my V70R with M&S tires has behaved very well in everything I have driven in. Sport kit may get a little snow plowish in a big dump, but maybe he will get lucky like me and not have to drive during a major snow storm.<br>I love driving the R up there. She loves the cold and altitude. Tell your buddy to go for it. The R is made for the snow conditions we get in CA. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Jim
 

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Re: R in the snow? (Neil)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Neil</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am glad for those of you who have had good luck running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires in the winter. However, you don't know how much control you forfeit by using A/S tires in winter. I had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires as summer tires on my last two cars - a 1997 850 AWD and a 2001 V70 T5. One spring I mounted the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires too early and got caught in about 20 cm (8 inches) of snow. The 850 awd was frightening, and it had 110 hp less than the R.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thank you for pointing out that the All seasons are indeed compromises to pure winter tires. Indeed, they do give up much control. I have had RWD sports cars on 4 snows and they have exhibited as much control as my R on A/S tires. <p>However, although we get a good bit of snow here in the Northeast, not all of us need to make long trips in the snow. In my case, we can usually leave the R at home and only have to use the truck. In my case, the compromise is fine. <p>I would not, however, call the performance of the R in the snow, even deep snow and ice, on the A/S by any means scary. I drove the car this winter in an honest to god ice storm, and passed about a dozen cars slid off the road. I couldn't barn burn it home, but I made it without any white knuckle moments.
 

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I might be missing something but my Pirelli's have been great so far and my car has not had any side-hop. I live near Houston, so I haven't had to deal with the cold temperatures, but the tread seems very good with almost 9,000 miles on them, hardly worn at all. I'll probably replace them with another type when needed, but luckily I haven't had any issues with them.
 
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