Today I traded-in my MY04 S60 NA for a new MY06 R. (Black metallic with sand interior, girltronic plus all packages except the aero). It only has 50 miles of which I have driven it 15. The instruction manual doesn't say it needs to be broken in but most cars do. If you bought new, how did you break-in the engine?
proper break-in for R engine...
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Re: proper break-in for R engine... (BrunoS)
man mine had 84 when i bought it, i put 14 on it during the test drive though
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ive read on here that most decide to keep it under 4500rpm for the first 1000-1500 miles which is what im trying to do. hard to keep it under 5k though when your in advanced
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nice color combo btw, i really didnt like the gobi at first but it really grew on me, i like it loads better than the taupe color my s80 had.
man mine had 84 when i bought it, i put 14 on it during the test drive though
ive read on here that most decide to keep it under 4500rpm for the first 1000-1500 miles which is what im trying to do. hard to keep it under 5k though when your in advanced
nice color combo btw, i really didnt like the gobi at first but it really grew on me, i like it loads better than the taupe color my s80 had.
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (sk11vengeance)
Sounds about right. I did get mine above 5,000 a few times. In fact I got it up to red line just after I got it out of the showroom at the factory. Just break it in like the other cars and don't worry if you go over the limit a few times.
| Quote, originally posted by sk11vengeance » |
ive read on here that most decide to keep it under 4500rpm for the first 1000-1500 miles which is what im trying to do. hard to keep it under 5k |
Sounds about right. I did get mine above 5,000 a few times. In fact I got it up to red line just after I got it out of the showroom at the factory. Just break it in like the other cars and don't worry if you go over the limit a few times.
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3,113 Posts
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (BrunoS)
This topic has been hotly debated in recent years. The two sides of the argument go like this:
1. It is absolutely imperative that you break-in the vehicle. If you don't, your car will die.
or
2. It is not necessary to break-in the vehicle at all.
And then you have all the arguments in between.
It is true, however, that the engines are broken in on the assembly line before they're even installed in the vehicle. But the running gear in not pre-broken in. So that's really what you've got to worry about.
General concensus is that you should not go full throttle for about the first 500 miles. And for the first 1500 miles, you should try to stay below 4500 rpm (it's ok if you dip above every now and then), and you should also avoid maintaining a constant speed for any length of time (i.e. no long-distance road trips).
This topic has been hotly debated in recent years. The two sides of the argument go like this:
1. It is absolutely imperative that you break-in the vehicle. If you don't, your car will die.
or
2. It is not necessary to break-in the vehicle at all.
And then you have all the arguments in between.
It is true, however, that the engines are broken in on the assembly line before they're even installed in the vehicle. But the running gear in not pre-broken in. So that's really what you've got to worry about.
General concensus is that you should not go full throttle for about the first 500 miles. And for the first 1500 miles, you should try to stay below 4500 rpm (it's ok if you dip above every now and then), and you should also avoid maintaining a constant speed for any length of time (i.e. no long-distance road trips).
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (R Salesman)
Thanks for the replies. I will drive it carefully during the first 1500 miles. Today I discovered that the turning radius is even worse than my previous S60 NA. At least the left front tire doesn't rub against the wheel well during u-turns. It has a lot of subtle design improvements over the MY04 like handles to close the trunk, fabric on the sides of the seats to protect the leather from wearing and a wind deflector for the moonroof.
Thanks for the replies. I will drive it carefully during the first 1500 miles. Today I discovered that the turning radius is even worse than my previous S60 NA. At least the left front tire doesn't rub against the wheel well during u-turns. It has a lot of subtle design improvements over the MY04 like handles to close the trunk, fabric on the sides of the seats to protect the leather from wearing and a wind deflector for the moonroof.
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17,328 Posts
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (BrunoS)
I have never seen an R with any of these items. Could you post pics?
| Quote, originally posted by BrunoS » |
| It has a lot of subtle design improvements over the MY04 like handles to close the trunk, fabric on the sides of the seats to protect the leather from wearing and a wind deflector for the moonroof. |
I have never seen an R with any of these items. Could you post pics?
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (Wayne T5)
I will. It also has a sunglass case on the driver side roof.
BTW
Anybody knows if the 850 sound system uses Dynadio speakers?
Hidden in fine print on the instruction manual it says that the auto transmision R has 258 torque instead of 295 of the MT. I find this very tricky from Volvo since no where in the catalog or the window sticker says this. I hope the MY06 with the new 6 speed gearbox has this corrected.
I will. It also has a sunglass case on the driver side roof.
BTW
Anybody knows if the 850 sound system uses Dynadio speakers?
Hidden in fine print on the instruction manual it says that the auto transmision R has 258 torque instead of 295 of the MT. I find this very tricky from Volvo since no where in the catalog or the window sticker says this. I hope the MY06 with the new 6 speed gearbox has this corrected.
Joined
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3,169 Posts
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (R Salesman)
No. The engines are tested for proper function. They're not broken-in, as this process takes many operating hours to achieve.
The proof for this is as close as any oil inspection lab. Wear metals and silica tend to be quite high for the first few thousand miles in Volvo engines. The silica count drops off very quickly, the metals more slowly.
My recommendation is to replace the engine oil with normal (i.e. not synthetic) lube every 1000-1500 miles for the first 5000 miles. If you're really interested in knowing precisely when the engine is broken-in, obtain an oil sample for testing. Graph the results for each contaminant. You'll see a noticable drop as the engine passes through its break-in point.
Drive at varying engine speeds. Don't aggressively accelerate, as full boost isn't very good for an engine being broken-in. Don't spend prolonged periods of time at idle, as this is when oil pressure (and viscosity in a warm engine) is at its lowest. Try to avoid many short trips.
| Quote, originally posted by R Salesman » |
It is true, however, that the engines are broken in on the assembly line before they're even installed in the vehicle. |
No. The engines are tested for proper function. They're not broken-in, as this process takes many operating hours to achieve.
The proof for this is as close as any oil inspection lab. Wear metals and silica tend to be quite high for the first few thousand miles in Volvo engines. The silica count drops off very quickly, the metals more slowly.
My recommendation is to replace the engine oil with normal (i.e. not synthetic) lube every 1000-1500 miles for the first 5000 miles. If you're really interested in knowing precisely when the engine is broken-in, obtain an oil sample for testing. Graph the results for each contaminant. You'll see a noticable drop as the engine passes through its break-in point.
Drive at varying engine speeds. Don't aggressively accelerate, as full boost isn't very good for an engine being broken-in. Don't spend prolonged periods of time at idle, as this is when oil pressure (and viscosity in a warm engine) is at its lowest. Try to avoid many short trips.
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (BrunoS)
For 04 and 05 models, 1st and 2nd gears were torque limited. In 06 they took off the limiter so you're supposed to be getting the full 295.
| Quote, originally posted by BrunoS » |
Hidden in fine print on the instruction manual it says that the auto transmision R has 258 torque instead of 295 of the MT. I find this very tricky from Volvo since no where in the catalog or the window sticker says this. I hope the MY06 with the new 6 speed gearbox has this corrected. |
For 04 and 05 models, 1st and 2nd gears were torque limited. In 06 they took off the limiter so you're supposed to be getting the full 295.
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (tRio)
Close but no cigar. The 258 is the detuned max on the 04/05 GT's but 1st/2nd are further detuned to 236. The 06 max is 295 but is still rumored to be detuned a bit in the early gears.
Check this thread: http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...age=2
"The 04/05 Gt was a 5 speed with peak torque detuned from 295ft-lbs to 258ft-lbs and further neutered in 1st/possibly 2nd gear to 236 ft-lbs. Thus the advertised 0-60 of 7.2 versus the advertised 0-60 of 5.4 for the MT.
The 06 GT is a 6 speed unit from the XC90 V8 which allows the engine to produce the full 295ft-lbs of torque though there is mention that 1st/possibly 2nd is still detuned a bit since the advertised 0-60 is in the low/mid 6's."
| Quote, originally posted by tRio » |
| For 04 and 05 models, 1st and 2nd gears were torque limited. In 06 they took off the limiter so you're supposed to be getting the full 295. |
Close but no cigar. The 258 is the detuned max on the 04/05 GT's but 1st/2nd are further detuned to 236. The 06 max is 295 but is still rumored to be detuned a bit in the early gears.
Check this thread: http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...age=2
"The 04/05 Gt was a 5 speed with peak torque detuned from 295ft-lbs to 258ft-lbs and further neutered in 1st/possibly 2nd gear to 236 ft-lbs. Thus the advertised 0-60 of 7.2 versus the advertised 0-60 of 5.4 for the MT.
The 06 GT is a 6 speed unit from the XC90 V8 which allows the engine to produce the full 295ft-lbs of torque though there is mention that 1st/possibly 2nd is still detuned a bit since the advertised 0-60 is in the low/mid 6's."
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (MagoonR)
Shound't Volvo clearly state all that information either in the manual, catalog or window sticker? It seems that when shopping for a sports car you would like to know this. I wonder how many 04/05 GT owners are disappointed about this. 236 on 1st? That is what a base 2.5T has.
Shound't Volvo clearly state all that information either in the manual, catalog or window sticker? It seems that when shopping for a sports car you would like to know this. I wonder how many 04/05 GT owners are disappointed about this. 236 on 1st? That is what a base 2.5T has.
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (BrunoS)
Not really. They are only advertising peak horsepower which is accurate. When the advertised 0-60 timres were almost two seconds different, something had to be up....don't you think?
Many were. Since the GT is the same five speed unit, makes sense that the 236 was the same.
| Quote, originally posted by BrunoS » |
| Shound't Volvo clearly state all that information either in the manual, catalog or window sticker? It seems that when shopping for a sports car you would like to know this. |
Not really. They are only advertising peak horsepower which is accurate. When the advertised 0-60 timres were almost two seconds different, something had to be up....don't you think?
| Quote, originally posted by BrunoS » |
| I wonder how many 04/05 GT owners are disappointed about this. 236 on 1st? That is what a base 2.5T has. |
Many were. Since the GT is the same five speed unit, makes sense that the 236 was the same.
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (R Salesman)
This topic has been hotly debated in recent years. The two sides of the argument go like this:
1. It is absolutely imperative that you break-in the vehicle. If you don't, your car will die.
or
2. It is not necessary to break-in the vehicle at all.
And then you have all the arguments in between.
It is true, however, that the engines are broken in on the assembly line before they're even installed in the vehicle. But the running gear in not pre-broken in. So that's really what you've got to worry about.
General concensus is that you should not go full throttle for about the first 500 miles. And for the first 1500 miles, you should try to stay below 4500 rpm (it's ok if you dip above every now and then), and you should also avoid maintaining a constant speed for any length of time (i.e. no long-distance road trips).
Great; I'm flying up to NYC to pickup my new R this weekend and driving it home to Columbia. Should I counter that by taking alot of breaks or what should I do?
This topic has been hotly debated in recent years. The two sides of the argument go like this:
1. It is absolutely imperative that you break-in the vehicle. If you don't, your car will die.
or
2. It is not necessary to break-in the vehicle at all.
And then you have all the arguments in between.
It is true, however, that the engines are broken in on the assembly line before they're even installed in the vehicle. But the running gear in not pre-broken in. So that's really what you've got to worry about.
General concensus is that you should not go full throttle for about the first 500 miles. And for the first 1500 miles, you should try to stay below 4500 rpm (it's ok if you dip above every now and then), and you should also avoid maintaining a constant speed for any length of time (i.e. no long-distance road trips).
Great; I'm flying up to NYC to pickup my new R this weekend and driving it home to Columbia. Should I counter that by taking alot of breaks or what should I do?
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339 Posts
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (waccamatt)
you could have a local dealership deliver it to you by them going and flatbedding it to their place. you have to pay for it of course. i was about to have this done with an R in VA but i decided on the R at my local dealership instead. i think its worth it to save all that wear on the engine from the long distance trip.
you could have a local dealership deliver it to you by them going and flatbedding it to their place. you have to pay for it of course. i was about to have this done with an R in VA but i decided on the R at my local dealership instead. i think its worth it to save all that wear on the engine from the long distance trip.
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (RearWheelPaul)
Paul, this is very interesting and looks like a logical (and scientific) apprpoach to understanding proper break-in.
Would you agree that getting the engine warm before driving (or before getting the RPMs up anywhere over ~2000) is also very important during break-in?
Volvo told me the R comes off the line with Castrol semi-synthetic 5W30 which I left in 'till about 2500Km at which time I flushed and changed it (using Castrol Semi-synth 5W30), also at ~2500Km I started pushing it harder and getting boost up. Today, at 4100Km, I swapped in Mobil1 Ext.Performance 10W30. It's been getting hot (30C+) otherwise I would have kept the 5W30 semi-synth in longer.
Based on what you've said do you think I'm better off draining the Mobil1 10W30 and replacing with with 10W30 semi-synth or regular non-synth for another 1500-2500Km's? Where in Canada can I get an oil analysis done?
Thanks,
LTA
| Quote, originally posted by RearWheelPaul » |
No. The engines are tested for proper function. They're not broken-in, as this process takes many operating hours to achieve. The proof for this is as close as any oil inspection lab. Wear metals and silica tend to be quite high for the first few thousand miles in Volvo engines. The silica count drops off very quickly, the metals more slowly. My recommendation is to replace the engine oil with normal (i.e. not synthetic) lube every 1000-1500 miles for the first 5000 miles. If you're really interested in knowing precisely when the engine is broken-in, obtain an oil sample for testing. Graph the results for each contaminant. You'll see a noticable drop as the engine passes through its break-in point. Drive at varying engine speeds. Don't aggressively accelerate, as full boost isn't very good for an engine being broken-in. Don't spend prolonged periods of time at idle, as this is when oil pressure (and viscosity in a warm engine) is at its lowest. Try to avoid many short trips. |
Paul, this is very interesting and looks like a logical (and scientific) apprpoach to understanding proper break-in.
Would you agree that getting the engine warm before driving (or before getting the RPMs up anywhere over ~2000) is also very important during break-in?
Volvo told me the R comes off the line with Castrol semi-synthetic 5W30 which I left in 'till about 2500Km at which time I flushed and changed it (using Castrol Semi-synth 5W30), also at ~2500Km I started pushing it harder and getting boost up. Today, at 4100Km, I swapped in Mobil1 Ext.Performance 10W30. It's been getting hot (30C+) otherwise I would have kept the 5W30 semi-synth in longer.
Based on what you've said do you think I'm better off draining the Mobil1 10W30 and replacing with with 10W30 semi-synth or regular non-synth for another 1500-2500Km's? Where in Canada can I get an oil analysis done?
Thanks,
LTA
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (RearWheelPaul)
The engines are run-in at the factory before installation, and then after installation. In the purest form, this is not nearly enough hours to be broken in, however it is important to understand the difference.
Once upon a time, engine oil had silica added to it in order "grind" parts into each-other and create a wear surface. This was the reason for the 1,500km oil change. To get the silica out! This practice is no longer current. While engines are still mechanical the traditional thinking behind break-in is not.
It is also important to note that the ETM, TCM etc will go through thier greatest adpation during this period. If the car is driven like it has an old lady behind the wheel it will remember this, and it will take a greater amopunt of time to correct it. This is factual, as we see many different cars, and some of them behave like they have never been over 3000rpm, and others are rockets.
There is a period in which the engine will be tight, fuel economy poor, and risk of over-heating higher, but that period is over after a few 1000km. This is not to say that the break in is over. I would suggest that a modern Volvo ought to be driven normally when brand new- no hard starts, high speeds, but also not driving slowly either. The car will begin to have a noticable difference, and at that time push it on occassion. Do not use Cruise until about 3,000-4,000km- new motors like to be revved.
It is true that a car ought to be broken in on normal oil, however in the case of the R this is not possible. I would suggest that an oil change after 6,000km with synthetic oil would be fine.
The engines are run-in at the factory before installation, and then after installation. In the purest form, this is not nearly enough hours to be broken in, however it is important to understand the difference.
Once upon a time, engine oil had silica added to it in order "grind" parts into each-other and create a wear surface. This was the reason for the 1,500km oil change. To get the silica out! This practice is no longer current. While engines are still mechanical the traditional thinking behind break-in is not.
It is also important to note that the ETM, TCM etc will go through thier greatest adpation during this period. If the car is driven like it has an old lady behind the wheel it will remember this, and it will take a greater amopunt of time to correct it. This is factual, as we see many different cars, and some of them behave like they have never been over 3000rpm, and others are rockets.
There is a period in which the engine will be tight, fuel economy poor, and risk of over-heating higher, but that period is over after a few 1000km. This is not to say that the break in is over. I would suggest that a modern Volvo ought to be driven normally when brand new- no hard starts, high speeds, but also not driving slowly either. The car will begin to have a noticable difference, and at that time push it on occassion. Do not use Cruise until about 3,000-4,000km- new motors like to be revved.
It is true that a car ought to be broken in on normal oil, however in the case of the R this is not possible. I would suggest that an oil change after 6,000km with synthetic oil would be fine.
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3,169 Posts
Re: proper break-in for R engine... (mcvolvo)
I don't believe that this was ever current practice. My knowledge of motor oil goes back to the ML, MM and MS ratings (~60s), which were introduced for engine lubrication just after mineral oil. No refiners, to the best of my knowledge, were ever crazy enough to add silica to their lube oils.
Silica, or sand, is the product of the casting process. Although manufacturers really try to clear their blocks, cylinder heads and gearbox casings of silica, trace quantities remain until they have been run long enough for all of the casting sand to be flushed or filtered out.
I researched this a few years ago when Volvo first introduced its RN series of engines. I was surprised to find that the specs for ring gaps, bearing clearances, etc. were consistent with earlier (iron block) engines. Although the materials and surface finishing techniques are improving, every fleet operator recognizes that a specific period is needed to break-in an engine. Volvo describes such procedures in its factory manuals following the replacement of a crank, cam, or piston/ring sets.
The more I keep hearing about new fangled techniques (usually from salesmen who don't know squat about automotive engineering), the more inclined I am to research materials and tolerances.
True, the systems are adaptive. The point of break-in is to avoid mechanical wear. After that, drive as you normally would. The adaptive systems will learn, but not at the cost of engine life.
Agree with the first part. New motors do not like to be revved past about 2/3 of maximum engine speed. Although its not necessarily destructive for the cam and main bearings, it's hell on the rings -- particularly on a boosted engine.
Engines also don't like to be lugged, as this puts a lot of strain on the oil film protecting the main bearings.
6,000 km is WAY too long for the first change. If it were my car, I'd use a narrow range conventional oil. I'd even consider a non-detergent straight 30 weight oil if day/night temps were consistently above 60F. I'd change the oil and filter very frequently -- several times during the 6,000 km interval you suggest. After that, I'd consider a wider range oil (although not the ultra wide range 5W50 or 10W40 oils), possibly (though not necessarily) a semi-synthetic. Some time after 5000 miles/8000 km, I'd start using a full synthetic oil.
But all of this would depend on what I was getting back from oil analysis. In other words, there is a general scheme for breaking in an engine, but the precise point of break-in can only be accurately gauged through oil analysis.
Of course, neither Volvo or any other manufacturer specifies this. Reason: Cars are considered basic consumer appliances. They're built to a specific service life, with ample margin for (driver, mechanic) error. The issue comes down to whether one wants an extended service life, or one that is closer to the norm.
| Quote, originally posted by mcvolvo » |
| Once upon a time, engine oil had silica added to it in order "grind" parts into each-other and create a wear surface. This was the reason for the 1,500km oil change. To get the silica out! This practice is no longer current. |
I don't believe that this was ever current practice. My knowledge of motor oil goes back to the ML, MM and MS ratings (~60s), which were introduced for engine lubrication just after mineral oil. No refiners, to the best of my knowledge, were ever crazy enough to add silica to their lube oils.
Silica, or sand, is the product of the casting process. Although manufacturers really try to clear their blocks, cylinder heads and gearbox casings of silica, trace quantities remain until they have been run long enough for all of the casting sand to be flushed or filtered out.
| Quote, originally posted by mcvolvo » |
| While engines are still mechanical the traditional thinking behind break-in is not. |
I researched this a few years ago when Volvo first introduced its RN series of engines. I was surprised to find that the specs for ring gaps, bearing clearances, etc. were consistent with earlier (iron block) engines. Although the materials and surface finishing techniques are improving, every fleet operator recognizes that a specific period is needed to break-in an engine. Volvo describes such procedures in its factory manuals following the replacement of a crank, cam, or piston/ring sets.
The more I keep hearing about new fangled techniques (usually from salesmen who don't know squat about automotive engineering), the more inclined I am to research materials and tolerances.
| Quote, originally posted by mcvolvo » |
| It is also important to note that the ETM, TCM etc will go through thier greatest adpation during this period. If the car is driven like it has an old lady behind the wheel it will remember this, and it will take a greater amopunt of time to correct it. This is factual, as we see many different cars, and some of them behave like they have never been over 3000rpm, and others are rockets. |
True, the systems are adaptive. The point of break-in is to avoid mechanical wear. After that, drive as you normally would. The adaptive systems will learn, but not at the cost of engine life.
| Quote, originally posted by mcvolvo » |
| I would suggest that a modern Volvo ought to be driven normally when brand new- no hard starts, high speeds, but also not driving slowly either. The car will begin to have a noticable difference, and at that time push it on occassion. Do not use Cruise until about 3,000-4,000km- new motors like to be revved. |
Agree with the first part. New motors do not like to be revved past about 2/3 of maximum engine speed. Although its not necessarily destructive for the cam and main bearings, it's hell on the rings -- particularly on a boosted engine.
Engines also don't like to be lugged, as this puts a lot of strain on the oil film protecting the main bearings.
| Quote, originally posted by mcvolvo » |
| It is true that a car ought to be broken in on normal oil, however in the case of the R this is not possible. I would suggest that an oil change after 6,000km with synthetic oil would be fine. |
6,000 km is WAY too long for the first change. If it were my car, I'd use a narrow range conventional oil. I'd even consider a non-detergent straight 30 weight oil if day/night temps were consistently above 60F. I'd change the oil and filter very frequently -- several times during the 6,000 km interval you suggest. After that, I'd consider a wider range oil (although not the ultra wide range 5W50 or 10W40 oils), possibly (though not necessarily) a semi-synthetic. Some time after 5000 miles/8000 km, I'd start using a full synthetic oil.
But all of this would depend on what I was getting back from oil analysis. In other words, there is a general scheme for breaking in an engine, but the precise point of break-in can only be accurately gauged through oil analysis.
Of course, neither Volvo or any other manufacturer specifies this. Reason: Cars are considered basic consumer appliances. They're built to a specific service life, with ample margin for (driver, mechanic) error. The issue comes down to whether one wants an extended service life, or one that is closer to the norm.
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