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Discussion Starter #1
What discounts are you folks seeing for XC60s these days? Both on factory ordered cars or something off the lot.

I am summoned to shop for a new XC60 T5 Momentum for the fam and so far I am not impressed with the numbers.

What are your experiences and what are some of the lease deals are people getting these days?

I am mostly interested in:

MSRP
Discount Received
Money Factor / Milage per year / Residual (if leased)

I buy a new car pretty much every year so I am very familiar with how the game is played. However, it has been forever since I shopped for a new Volvo hence my questions.

Back in the day, it was normal to get a 20%+ discount on a $50K S60R but so far, I am seeing $1500 to $2K discounts.

I am super tempted to have the fam pursue a BMW X3 instead but I will give Volvo a shot 1st.

Please share your deals & THANK YOU!
 

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You'll be missing lots of data if you just look for discount, but either way, you're not going to see 20% of real discount. Volvo isn't at all desperate to put deals together because their sales are up so no need for huge rebates. I don't think you'll see that with anyone in the lux segment (maybe a leftover Infinity fi you consider that lux). Sales have been hugely strong since last spring. It's February, and I'm not making many sales compared to spring summer and fall, but it's still been my best February I can remember in terms of volume and traffic.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
You'll be missing lots of data if you just look for discount, but either way, you're not going to see 20% of real discount. Volvo isn't at all desperate to put deals together because their sales are up so no need for huge rebates. I don't think you'll see that with anyone in the lux segment (maybe a leftover Infinity fi you consider that lux). Sales have been hugely strong since last spring. It's February, and I'm not making many sales compared to spring summer and fall, but it's still been my best February I can remember in terms of volume and traffic.
Thanks for your response.

What data would I be missing if I am only looking for a discount? Which is exactly what I am looking for. This will be a straight fw lease w/ very good credit with no trade in & etc most likely on a factory ordered car. I am sure 20% discount days are gone and hence my question. What I am after is the % of the discount provided (excluding current incentives) and a MF for a 12K miles per year.

To me, buying a brand new car is the easiest thing to do as I can shop nationwide and will purchase the vehicle from the dealer who wants my business. Again, I am not new to this and purchase or lease one brand new car at least per year.

I am already getting quotes from folks for the same build / term / milage that are all over the board.
 

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Thanks for your response.

What data would I be missing if I am only looking for a discount? Which is exactly what I am looking for. This will be a straight fw lease w/ very good credit with no trade in & etc most likely on a factory ordered car. I am sure 20% discount days are gone and hence my question. What I am after is the % of the discount provided (excluding current incentives) and a MF for a 12K miles per year.

To me, buying a brand new car is the easiest thing to do as I can shop nationwide and will purchase the vehicle from the dealer who wants my business. Again, I am not new to this and purchase or lease one brand new car at least per year.

I am already getting quotes from folks for the same build / term / milage that are all over the board.
DFrantz is a sales person, so keep that in mind when reading their posts... In previous threads they have given some pretty awful advice for potential customers, imo. For example, they've insisted that shopping based on monthly payment is in the best interest of the consumer -- that advice goes against every credible recommendation, however.

I'd suggest going to the Edmunds lease forum. You can post your zip code and model/trim/terms desired and they'll tell you the exact money factor, residual, and incentives available in your area. Use that with the leasehackr calculator to compare deals.

Not too long ago, 15% off MSRP wasn't hard to get. Maybe with COVID and some industries/supplies experiencing shortages it may not be a good time to buy? I'm not sure -- I'm not in the market, right now, myself. If you find that to be the case and can wait a few months, you may want to do so.... I would be surprised if the market doesn't return to a more normal state.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
DFrantz is a sales person, so keep that in mind when reading their posts... In previous threads they have given some pretty awful advice for potential customers, imo. For example, they've insisted that shopping based on monthly payment is in the best interest of the consumer -- that advice goes against every credible recommendation, however.

I'd suggest going to the Edmunds lease forum. You can post your zip code and model/trim/terms desired and they'll tell you the exact money factor, residual, and incentives available in your area. Use that with the leasehackr calculator to compare deals.

Not too long ago, 15% off MSRP wasn't hard to get. Maybe with COVID and some industries/supplies experiencing shortages it may not be a good time to buy? I'm not sure -- I'm not in the market, right now, myself. If you find that to be the case and can wait a few months, you may want to do so.... I would be surprised if the market doesn't return to a more normal state.
Thank You. Yes, sales folks have a different point of view hence my reasoning for direct questioning.

I just leased a brand new BMW M340 when the car 1st came out and when you spoke to sales folks no discounts were avail on a brand new hot car. Long story short, one is in my garage after a 15% discount (after incentives), base MF on a factory ordered car. If one dealer is too busy selling tons of cars and do not have time for me, I would be happy to take my business to the next guy. I have way too many stories like that.

So it does sound like Volvo's pricing has not changed.

Last time Volvo made a car that I wanted to buy were the R cars. I had a deal on a factory ordered S60R for a $50K MSRP, selling price was $38K. At the time, I decided to order a Euro Delivery BMW 335 Coupe instead as they just came out. Volvo dealer would not stop calling me after I made that decision.

We have all the time in the world and we are shopping for a car that is as common as it gets.

I will keep this thread alive with real data as dealers are coming back with their offers.
 

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Because you're not asking about any of the fees..... Doc fees vary, I've seen places have prep fees, I've seen place have fees if you don't finance with them (not going to happen on a lease, but it's a fee). I've seen lots of states that allow you to show a discount for a vehicle that does not include the destination fee, even though it's part of the MSRP... So just asking for a huge discount can literally have thousands of dollars of hidden costs. I do not get into pricing on the forum, but I will speak up and point out that just seeing the biggest discount doesn't actually mean a darn thing and one needs to be careful in their nation wide searches. Perhaps you knew all that, but not everyone does and they get tricked by a "lower price" that isn't.
 

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And 100%, shopping a lease by your real payment is the best way to compare if cost is the concern. It's the only number that matters, and for the customer literally matters zero how that number is arrived. The rest is just math... and it's far easier to not ask every question or consider every comparison and miss something ... but your monthly payment is your monthly payment... that's the real cost.

Any article that says otherwise is just trying to get you to click and read their garbage and ignore basic greater than less than decision making.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
My question remains the same.

All I am looking for is % discount off of MSRP excluding incentives and MF figures from other members.

If anyone is shopping based on monthly payments, they should go back to school on purchasing cars or anything for that matter. I am sorry but I 100% disagree with your logic. Are you telling me just bec the payment is where it needs to be, charging a ridiculous amount of interest is a good idea or marking up the MF where most folks have no idea how it is calculated??? Dealers add bunch of $$$$ here and there on leased car bec your average customer have no idea how to back into the deal.

I have never paid any other fee in my life including doc fees, prep fees, regional adjustment fees etc etc etc. Probably bought well over 100 cars so far. Dealers can try to charge whatever they wish but at the end of the day if they are not willing to get rid of the nonsense, I am already entertaining the next best quote.

PS: Not financing with us fee is a brand new one that I have never heard before :)
 

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If they're not willing to get rid of that "nonsense" (aka overhead costs and profit has to come from somewhere), then it will just be in the price. It doesn't go away, and that just goes back to my point. If you got a quote from every dealer in the country, the lowest payment would be the best. If you got all the fees, MSRP, sale price, rebates, money factors, from every dealer and compared, you'd still possibility miss something, and you'd also have quite a bit more math to sort out... monthly payment is the cost. How the cost is arrived to doesn't matter. All the data you're asking for leads to what the monthly payment is. Why do you care if one place has a $1000 fee and another has a sale price $1000 less? It makes zero difference to a customer when it comes to cost of ownership.

Nothing I said had anything about the payment being where it needs to be. I left such dealers years ago. If you're shopping multiple dealers for the best deal amongst them, then the only smart way to compare is a payment on the same car. If you haven't picked out a specific car or brand yet well then you do have a ton more homework to do. But still, if you get a payment on an XC60 and a X3 and a GLC and one of them is notably better than the other too, that's probably the car with the best programs on it. But it still doesn't matter at all if that is due to rebates, money factor, or residual. Discount from dealers between brands is a far more regionally based. Best deals between brands are going to be based on the manufacturers programs. My point is that the payment is the true cost, and that's simply a mathematical fact. And the lowest cost is the best if cost is your deciding factor.

If you've bought 100 new cars in your lifetime, then you aren't going to a forum because the best you got so far was a $2000 discount either, you'd know plenty of people in the industry =-D

And yeah, the not financing with us fee was a new one I came across this year. Doesn't surprise me.

And a finial note... generally there shouldn't be a difference between an on lot car and a factory order (locates do have a cost associated). I generally think most people should factory order and get what they want and it makes comparison quotes easy as the units are identical. I can think of only two exceptions. One is if you have a really weird order and the dealer gives you a high price hoping you don't take it, because the risk of being stuck with the unit is higher than the benefit of having you as a customer. The other is when a dealer has that unit that's horrible, has probably been there awhile, and they have some advertising money moved over to it in order to unload. You don't get to be picky, but finding such a car can be an unprecedented good deal if it fits your needs.
 
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@850t5 and @DFrantz

I think you both are trying to get to the same point, but saying it in different ways. If I understand correctly, the real question will really depend upon whether the transaction is a lease or outright purchase.

If a lease, then the comparison points seem to be: Cap cost reduction, security deposit, mileage/over mileage charge, monthly payment (which should include any taxes and annual registration fees) and lease end disposition fee. My understanding is that these expenses will be set by the lease and it does not matter what the “sale price” or “money factor” are since they can vary from dealer to dealer on the identical car. The crucial question is how much are you going to spend. That said, if you are trying to play one dealer off another on a lease, especially where you are trying to get the dealer with the lower sale price to come down on the money factor, then having that information would be worthwhile.

In an outright purchase, I only care about the final out the door price (which includes tags, tax and license registration) and shop my financing separately (if I am not paying cash). In this regard, I have consistently found that I get better rates at the dealer, even with their mark up, than I would at the local bank branch. When I purchased my last Suburban, I found that both the trade offer and the sale price varied greatly from dealer to dealer for no rhyme or reason. It really came down to how motivated they were or were not to make a deal. The last dealer I ended up at under cut the out of state dealer by $500 even though the out of state dealer only had a $75 doc fee and the Virginia dealer where I bought the truck had a $799 doc fee.

Note about Doc Fees: in some states there has apparently been litigation where dealerships have been charged with discrimination for waiving “mandatory” Doc fees on some transactions but not others. As a result, they will always charge the fee. The work around is to have them reduce the purchase price by the Doc fee amount.
 
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I think that's generally a good understanding. Dealers don't always "mark up" a rate. In fact, it's very rare that I do. We get what is called a "flat rate" just for giving the bank your business. I assume most Volvo customers are educated with rates, so I feel it's in my interest to just give them the best rate I can and be satisfied with the smaller amount the bank gives us for that. Often the "buy rate" we get from a bank is lower than their lobby rate, meaning even if a customer is a member of that bank already, I can still often beat what they walk in the door with as their standard. But at the same time, dealers CAN mark up rates, and many with the lowest prices do by default. Give the car away and try to make every cent through he rest of the transaction. Some can navigate the whole thing, but others miss one step and that's where they make their money. They can sell for less based on taking advantage of some people.

Yes, some states do mandate doc fees to be equal to all. Government working for you there! Still, doc fees are not just a pure profit. I've said before, PA did an audit of dealerships in our state and determined the state avg cost of handling the documents was $389. So that's what they allow us to charge and thats what every dealer I know of charges. We actually did our own internal and found our cost was about $100 less, but we found that just put us at a $100 disadvantage in advertising with other Volvo stores in the state. My point here is, there are expenses with handling the paperwork. While in some industries you would expect that just to be part of the cost and reflected in a straight forward price (I'd support this!!!) it just isn't the way the auto industry is regulated. And the average internet shopping customer really does just ask about the price. It's very rare that a walk phone call or walk in customer asks about fees before they sit down. Now I lay the fees out when I show folks the numbers, but I know other places use 4 square and other old games... so it might not be shown until you "sign here" and happen to look up at the buyers order and see those fees and ask about em. I don't like this, but it's the competitive environment I live in.

And that's why I like a more straight forward approach. The shortest way to express the real cost is the best way to compare. A monthly payment, finance or lease, can't really hid fees, because they are reflected in there. Full itemization just gets you finding some places with better prices, others with better rates, and others with better fees... what the consumer cares about is best overall, and while you might feel better doing the math yourself, the equations you're making are going to be based on the monthly payment as their simplest term before calculating outright cost.

My interest is in the fact that I sell cars in a more conservative state. I know I lose business to places that advertise an artificially low price where they fees are taken out and they use every rebate in the book. I HATE how every manufacturer advertised lease payments on base models with thousands down. That's stupid. Further, it's not too uncommon to find artificially higher residual values or better money factors on such models to "get the conversation started". No one really wants a T4 XC40 Momentum with no options... but they lease better than a T5 R design by the money factor and residual. Volvo can afford to do that because on one will lease it, and it makes the XC40 look like it leases better than it does. And I'm quite sure you'll find such tricks across the board from car makers.

And last point... and you can get back to asking for discounts people got, I have no problem being higher priced than someone else. I do think I'm worth it, and I know our store is. But when it looks like I'm $5000 higher than another store, and when the real payments are compared and I'm maybe $500 or $1000 more, I think that's disingenuous marketing. Some of it is dealers faults, some of it is state laws all being different, but it's not in the consumers interest for the sale price to have so little meaning.
 
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
@850t5 and @DFrantz

I think you both are trying to get to the same point, but saying it in different ways. If I understand correctly, the real question will really depend upon whether the transaction is a lease or outright purchase.

If a lease, then the comparison points seem to be: Cap cost reduction, security deposit, mileage/over mileage charge, monthly payment (which should include any taxes and annual registration fees) and lease end disposition fee. My understanding is that these expenses will be set by the lease and it does not matter what the “sale price” or “money factor” are since they can vary from dealer to dealer on the identical car. The crucial question is how much are you going to spend. That said, if you are trying to play one dealer off another on a lease, especially where you are trying to get the dealer with the lower sale price to come down on the money factor, then having that information would be worthwhile.

In an outright purchase, I only care about the final out the door price (which includes tags, tax and license registration) and shop my financing separately (if I am not paying cash). In this regard, I have consistently found that I get better rates at the dealer, even with their mark up, than I would at the local bank branch. When I purchased my last Suburban, I found that both the trade offer and the sale price varied greatly from dealer to dealer for no rhyme or reason. It really came down to how motivated they were or were not to make a deal. The last dealer I ended up at under cut the out of state dealer by $500 even though the out of state dealer only had a $75 doc fee and the Virginia dealer where I bought the truck had a $799 doc fee.

Note about Doc Fees: in some states there has apparently been litigation where dealerships have been charged with discrimination for waiving “mandatory” Doc fees on some transactions but not others. As a result, they will always charge the fee. The work around is to have them reduce the purchase price by the Doc fee amount.

Fair points. There is a misconception that people have about leases and that's how dealers make bunch of money out of unsuspecting people. Not sure what % of Volvos are leases but it doesn't sound nearly as much as BMW or Audis. The information I am asking for is readily discussed and shared on their own forums continuously.

Buy vs Lease, negotiation should be no different. You should absolutely care about out the door price of a leased car as well. Your lease payments will depend on the final price you agreed to pay for the car. Just like it would be if you were to finance the car. Further, say 4 months into your lease, you want to buy the car and your pay off will be the price you negotiated. ALL residual, milage over charges & etc are set by Volvo Cars NA and dealers have no control with an exception of being able to mark up MF.


OK, as a reference here is what I am seeing so far:

5% off of MSRP off the gate is almost what all dealers offered.....some as high as 10% excluding incentives
MF is .00089 with a 57% residual on 36 / 12K (might vary by region).....one dealer quoted .00189 as a MF (NICE TRY!!!!)
 

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I recently bought a 2021 xc60 which retailed for about 48k. I asked for and received $5000 off with
no incentives. I was not trying for a great deal, just one I was happy with. I bought it at the local Volvo dealership in Overland Park.
 

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5% off of MSRP off the gate is almost what all dealers offered.....some as high as 10% excluding incentives
MF is .00089 with a 57% residual on 36 / 12K (might vary by region).....one dealer quoted .00189 as a MF (NICE TRY!!!!)
10% off is about the most aggressive you discount you will likely find. Few dealers will see much reason to go further than that as replenishment inventory is getting difficult to come by.

You need to be aware different regions of the country have different lease programs set by the factory. The money factor can vary from one state to the next, hence why you say you are getting quotes "all over the board". I can't say exactly why without seeing the numbers, but if you find one quote with a different MF in a different state that doesn't mean they are marking up the MF or something is fishy.....different regions don't have the same leasing rates. Also incentives vary by region, so there is more going on here than meats the eye.

I can tell you that if all you are doing is calling all over looking for the lowest price from whatever random dealer wants to sell a car the most you will likely not have a very good experience. Many dealers are very uninterested in dealing with shoppers out looking to pit one dealer against another to save a few bucks. As someone that used to work for Volvo I assure you these deals often require the most effort for the least amount of profit, and dealers are much more interested in actually developing a long-term relationship with their customers. Depending where you are perhaps that is or is not true, but you experience does not surprise me if this is your shopping method.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
10% off is about the most aggressive you discount you will likely find. Few dealers will see much reason to go further than that as replenishment inventory is getting difficult to come by.

You need to be aware different regions of the country have different lease programs set by the factory. The money factor can vary from one state to the next, hence why you say you are getting quotes "all over the board". I can't say exactly why without seeing the numbers, but if you find one quote with a different MF in a different state that doesn't mean they are marking up the MF or something is fishy.....different regions don't have the same leasing rates. Also incentives vary by region, so there is more going on here than meats the eye.

I can tell you that if all you are doing is calling all over looking for the lowest price from whatever random dealer wants to sell a car the most you will likely not have a very good experience. Many dealers are very uninterested in dealing with shoppers out looking to pit one dealer against another to save a few bucks. As someone that used to work for Volvo I assure you these deals often require the most effort for the least amount of profit, and dealers are much more interested in actually developing a long-term relationship with their customers. Depending where you are perhaps that is or is not true, but you experience does not surprise me if this is your shopping method.

Thanks for your response and I hope you read that I do this quite often, just not recently on a Volvo. I have detailed information of how the game is played because unfortunately thats what the dealerships end up making this.

I am well aware of regional differences. Currently, I am focusing on West Coast dealers. I have also gotten a quote for higher than 10% discount on a car that is not a good match unfortunately.

It sounds to me from the two Volvo sales guys that are stepping in here is that a customer is expected to walk into your dealerships, pay MSRP, say yes all the mark ups and fees and drive home in a new Volvo and be thankful. Not going to happen. This is not saving "few bucks" but more like saving thousands!

As far as relationships go, very few sales folks stay around in the same dealership for an extended amount of time to even build a relationship. Unless you know the GM of the dealership (which there are several that I do) the rest is no help.

My method is simple: Send an email to several dealerships (who calls around???), indicate what I want, ask them to send me their detailed quotes. As part of my email, I make it very clear that I will contact the dealer that provides the best pricing. And yes, so far I have received MF from the dealers in same region from .00089, .00139 and .00189.
 

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Thanks for your response and I hope you read that I do this quite often, just not recently on a Volvo. I have detailed information of how the game is played because unfortunately thats what the dealerships end up making this.

I am well aware of regional differences. Currently, I am focusing on West Coast dealers. I have also gotten a quote for higher than 10% discount on a car that is not a good match unfortunately.

It sounds to me from the two Volvo sales guys that are stepping in here is that a customer is expected to walk into your dealerships, pay MSRP, say yes all the mark ups and fees and drive home in a new Volvo and be thankful. Not going to happen. This is not saving "few bucks" but more like saving thousands!

As far as relationships go, very few sales folks stay around in the same dealership for an extended amount of time to even build a relationship. Unless you know the GM of the dealership (which there are several that I do) the rest is no help.

My method is simple: Send an email to several dealerships (who calls around???), indicate what I want, ask them to send me their detailed quotes. As part of my email, I make it very clear that I will contact the dealer that provides the best pricing. And yes, so far I have received MF from the dealers in same region from .00089, .00139 and .00189.
I guess we have very different expectations and experiences. I have sold hundreds of Volvos over the years, and a quality dealership doesn't play games. That model of selling cars has expired at many places. No dealer thinks people walk in the door and pay MSRP, and no quality dealerships have markup fees. I've never sold a car in that way, and i've never bought one at a dealership that operates on such principles. Most of the salespeople at my Volvo have been there for a minimum of 10 years and have long-standing relationships. My last Volvo took about 10 minutes to buy, extremely aggressive deal without asking. I'm not interested in shopping around the countryside to save a few dollars. A dealership has to turn a profit as well to provide me the services I expect. I guess we have very different ways of buying a car. It's one of the most enjoyable things I get to do, but sounds like you approach it as a battle. Maybe that's part of the reason it's so difficult. Good luck in your quest for the lowest price possible. It seems that it's at the expense of the enjoyment of the process and the enjoyment of a new car.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Good luck in your quest for the lowest price possible. It seems that it's at the expense of the enjoyment of the process and the enjoyment of a new car.
No luck needed as emails are coming poring in. We do have some of the best dealers in PNW btw. You have created a typical salesman response and did everything besides answering any of my questions. This car is not for me and if I were in the market XC60 would be the last thing I would look at. I do truly enjoy all the cars that I buy though :)

Latest and most aggressive deal so far for those who care... :

2021 XC60 AWD Momentum
MSRP: 49,090 including dest
Selling Price: 43,090 including dest (plus tax, lic & reg)
MF: .00139 (this I might pick on a little)
Res: 55%
Lease Term: 36m /15K

Clearly, above price applies if we were to just buy the car out right vs leasing it.
 

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NYou have created a typical salesman response and did everything besides answering any of my questions.
Not exactly sure what you are getting at. I am a farmer in Iowa, raising corn and soybeans and beef cattle. I didn't really answer your questions as a salesman because I am not a salesman. However my previous employment in managing luxury dealerships gives me insights most consumers do not have.
 
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