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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone,

I am in the process of putting my angle gear together and I need to know the pinion bearing preload. I asked dealer and they couldnt help me. They said that the pinion nut is supposed to be torqued to 132 ft-lb. Also if anyone knows how many spins the pretensioning nut(on the axle side has teeth around it) needs to be tightened it would help me alot. And finally has anyone reused the crush sleeve? If so how much torque you applied to pinion nut with the old crush sleeve? Oh and almost forgot about the backlash. If anyone has experience with setting up proper backlash or the play between gear shafts please let me know.

Thanks in advance
 

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I've rehabbed a few. 10-15 inch pounds rolling lubed torque on pinion, scoot range up 5 inch-lb if new bearings. DO not exceed 145 lb-ft on pinion nut and then check, it'll probably be right. (Volvo procedure for pinion seal on AG is 132-147, don't exceed 147). If the preload is low be very careful to not overdo it. It will take WAY more than 147 lb-ft to increase preload.
I install a nut behind a bolt on the pinion flange to use dial indicator against for backlash. I use .07-.10 mm backlash. take o ring off the race cap and be sure the threads are clean and well lubed. IF threads are good you can feel 0 preload. I use two notches of cap as preload. Once I'm happy with the BL and PL on carrier setup I mark with Sharpie and remove the cap and install o ring and take back to marks.
No failures with these numbers and no noise though I don't think you'd hear a noisey setup.

You do know to chamfer the edge of one half of the case and use grey high torque silicone sealer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I've rehabbed a few. 10-15 inch pounds rolling lubed torque on pinion, scoot range up 5 inch-lb if new bearings. DO not exceed 145 lb-ft on pinion nut and then check, it'll probably be right. (Volvo procedure for pinion seal on AG is 132-147, don't exceed 147). If the preload is low be very careful to not overdo it. It will take WAY more than 147 lb-ft to increase preload.
I install a nut behind a bolt on the pinion flange to use dial indicator against for backlash. I use .07-.10 mm backlash. take o ring off the race cap and be sure the threads are clean and well lubed. IF threads are good you can feel 0 preload. I use two notches of cap as preload. Once I'm happy with the BL and PL on carrier setup I mark with Sharpie and remove the cap and install o ring and take back to marks.
No failures with these numbers and no noise though I don't think you'd hear a noisey setup.

You do know to chamfer the edge of one half of the case and use grey high torque silicone sealer?
I can't thank you enough for giving me all this info. It is exactly what I needed. I've been searching but couldn't find a thread about this. I guess I will do a detailed write up after I'm done with the project.

So two-notch spin will yield a backlash of about 0.07-0.10?

You mean to take a file and take off about 3mm of of the inside edge of one of the two parts of the angle gear right? I have another black silicone that I bought for this job. The guy who works at that store said he uses it all the time on transfer cases and it works great. It dries up very fast too like in 10-20 mins.

Thanks again
 

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I have done a ton of Volvo diffs and I used the general specs and applied them to the AG.
The bearings are smaller so the side preload is less than that but I checked it with rolling torque and two notches was good.
Yes, the 3mm file deal. This is a development used in the last few years on new engines and other oil containing cases. The chamfer effectively builds a back up o ring that can flex and cover for any breaks in the silicone between the pieces. The reason anaerobic would fail as well as silicone.
The black should be fine. I like the more rigid gray but there may be no advantage in it other than it is what I use for other things and it is what I keep on hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I've rehabbed a few. 10-15 inch pounds rolling lubed torque on pinion, scoot range up 5 inch-lb if new bearings. DO not exceed 145 lb-ft on pinion nut and then check, it'll probably be right. (Volvo procedure for pinion seal on AG is 132-147, don't exceed 147). If the preload is low be very careful to not overdo it. It will take WAY more than 147 lb-ft to increase preload.
I install a nut behind a bolt on the pinion flange to use dial indicator against for backlash. I use .07-.10 mm backlash. take o ring off the race cap and be sure the threads are clean and well lubed. IF threads are good you can feel 0 preload. I use two notches of cap as preload. Once I'm happy with the BL and PL on carrier setup I mark with Sharpie and remove the cap and install o ring and take back to marks.
No failures with these numbers and no noise though I don't think you'd hear a noisey setup.

You do know to chamfer the edge of one half of the case and use grey high torque silicone sealer?

I have done a ton of Volvo diffs and I used the general specs and applied them to the AG.
The bearings are smaller so the side preload is less than that but I checked it with rolling torque and two notches was good.
Yes, the 3mm file deal. This is a development used in the last few years on new engines and other oil containing cases. The chamfer effectively builds a back up o ring that can flex and cover for any breaks in the silicone between the pieces. The reason anaerobic would fail as well as silicone.
The black should be fine. I like the more rigid gray but there may be no advantage in it other than it is what I use for other things and it is what I keep on hand.
Hi Jimmy, sorry to bother you again. So just to make sure I do everything right, I'd like to clarify a few things. So the order the things go together is:
-Pinion shaft with the seal and the nut.(tighten the nut to about 132-147ftlbs after angle gear is installed or before installed?)
-After that put the main shaft in and glue the angle gear together.
-Third install the pretensioning nut(the one with notches).
(Or did you glue the angle gear together first, installed it and then tightened the pinion nut?)

I did as you said about tightening the pretensioning nut without O-ring, and from about 8.5 circles to 10 circles from the marked line there seemed to be equal amount of play at 8.5 and 10 circles backlash. I guess no matter how tight you tighten the pretensioning nut, backlash will be same. (Do you by any chance remember how many times you spun this pretens. Nut?) So after the pinion nut is tightened to 132-147ftlb i need to tighten the pretensioning nut just enough for it to start gaining preload on the pinion correct? Turn the nut two more notches and this will give me 10-20 inch pounds of preload. Did I get that right?

Finally can you explain a little more how to measure the backlash. If possible pics would be great. Where did you get the tool? Is it possible to set backlash properly without the tool? (I guess I confused the procedure that you told me (two notches turn) with the backlash. It was actually procedure to set preload right?)

Again sorry for bothering you, but you are the only person who can help me with this so far.

Thanks for all the help
 

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The pinion nut can be tightened to that torque range anytime before you do the ring gear carrier bearing side bearing preload adjustment.
You will need some way of counterholding the pinion flange. Or you tighten it with your 1/2 inch air impact. I know this will not exceed the torque with you holding flange with your hand while impact tightens. The problem is will it get it tight enough? I have a counterhold handle I use that is a universal tool for such things. I have had it a long time and have no idea where you'd get one. You can do the impact wrench thing and then once it is in car with all but the rear driveshaft fitted check and do final torque then.
The dimensions will not change if the nut is already at even 100ft-lbs.

Backlash is not any special tools. I had a flat piece of steel with a 5/16" hole and I bolted it to flange so the tip of a dial indicator could rest on it. I used the bolt holes on the face that bolts to transmission to bolt a flat piece of steel and then used a magnetic base dial indicator stand to hold the dial gauge. turn the flange and zero the DG and then turn the flange back to read the DG.

The backlash will increase with increased bearing preload. The bearings get pushed deeper in races. 1/2 of the increased depth is on each race so the diatance the ringear moves away from pinion is slight but it can increase the backlash.
If the backlash is too great the correction is to dismantle the assembly and pull the back race out and increase the shim thickness behind that race. I doubt you will need to do this unless your gears look rough and have lots of wear.
I don't have pictures of anything I've done to show you this. I have a Volvo manual for backlash checks against the gear teeth but the photo is too dark to capture for a photo to load here. You are checking the amount of the little motion you get moving the flange back and forth without putting enough force on it to make it turn the ring gear.

Was the drag on the side bearing cap low enough that you could feel the force go immediately up when it go to zero preload (no freeplay) in bearings?
I use an old pointer type torque wrench for steps like this and I can see the torque climb. I go back and forth and find that spot where the torque increases as 0 and then go two notches from that point. The torque to go the two notches is increase drastically as I turn the cap.

Did you change the carrier/ring gear bearings? or pinion bearings?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for a quick reply! I just changed the pinion bearings not the ring gear bearings they looked really good, since I only have 54000 miles on the car. The gears look brand new also and show no wear. So you mean the preload will increase only as I tighten the side cap? So the actual 132-147ftlb on pinion isnt going to give any preload? So you mean after the pinion is tightened, put the cap in and work its way in until I get just enough to see preload and find zero preload. Then I just turn the cap two notches and I should have 10-20 ftlbs of torque(15-20 in my case since I got new pinion bearings right?) In my thinking if I set proper preload and tighten the pinion nut to spec then I should have the right backlash. Is that right? If the backlash is lower I will need to tighten the cap a bit or if its higher I will need to loosen the cap. But now, that will affect the preload.

I have never used the backlash indicator so I am not very familiar with it, although I have seen a few videos on youtube of how it works. I need to find a backlash indicator and to see a proper way to hook it up. Or maybe... do you think if preload is right and pinion nut is tightened correctly, the backlash would be good as well?

Thanks alot for detailed write up. Im deffinately making a thread about this stuff after I get done with my angle gear.
 

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There are two preloads. The pinion preload is set by the crush collar. The crush collar requires more then the 147 ft-lb to crush any more so tightening to the 132-147 just gets the nut to stay put. There is a shim that sets the pinion depth into the side of ring gear for correct mesh.
Ring gear carrier bearings preload is set by the bearing retainer cap/collar that has the nubs on for the tool to engage. The backlash between the ring gear and pinion is set by shim under the other side carrier bearing.
With what you replaced I would not worry about backlash. When you put it together and put the gear lube in it you'll probably have a faint amount of backlash with no real clunk and that is great. I worry about backlash with new carrier bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There are two preloads. The pinion preload is set by the crush collar. The crush collar requires more then the 147 ft-lb to crush any more so tightening to the 132-147 just gets the nut to stay put. There is a shim that sets the pinion depth into the side of ring gear for correct mesh.
Ring gear carrier bearings preload is set by the bearing retainer cap/collar that has the nubs on for the tool to engage. The backlash between the ring gear and pinion is set by shim under the other side carrier bearing.
With what you replaced I would not worry about backlash. When you put it together and put the gear lube in it you'll probably have a faint amount of backlash with no real clunk and that is great. I worry about backlash with new carrier bearings.
Ok so if there are two preloads the 15-20inch pounds is when the pinion nut is tightened, ring gear in place and the cap tightened to the spec of two notches is that what its for? By the way the new crush sleeve I got is about 1.5mm taller. I guess this is because the old one is crushed right? If the crush sleeve doesn't crush at 147ftlb and the pinion still has back and forth play(not the side to side play, backlash) do I tighten it harder? If so, how much?
 

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New crush sleeve is tightened with no regard for the torque needed until the rolling in-lb reading in 10-20 in-lb.
With new bearings you could use the old crush sleeve and go to 140-ish ft-lbs and check the rolling load. IT will almost undoubtedly be the right amount. The crush sleeve has to be changed if some thing changes dimensions but the new bearings dimensions should be the same as old bearings.

The two notches is the preload on carrier bearings.

A little background: the original way bearing preload was done was with a shaft with a stop shoulder for the smaller ID bearing. You assembled the shaft and bearing but no shim would be on the stop shoulder. In its place would be a piece of lead wire. You tightened the retaining nut until rolling load was correct via torque wrench checks. Then you pulled it apart and measured the lead wire to determine a shim thickness to go on stop shoulder and then assembled and torqued retaining nut and the preload was done.
Crush sleeve is a development that cuts down manufacturing time and is not as likely to create mistakes and no assortment of shims has to be kept in stock at each work station, just a big box of crush sleeves. Crush sleeve has to be deformable but has to be a high force to deform.
There was and remains a shim to set the pinion height (lateral insertion depth to ring gear for mesh to be correct) in the right place and it is between the underside of the pinion gear head and that larger bearing that gets pressed on there. Pinion depth is the toughest to get. It requires some precision measurements based on index number on pinion from measurements against a standard at gear making plant. Setting the pinion in the AG case the way it is made would be HARD to do without a load of specialized tools. Another reason to not sell the gear parts for AG's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I see. So since the pinion bearings are new I should make it 20 inch pounds torque for the pinion side. Since I didnt change the bearings on the ring gear the torque here is 10-15 inch pounds. So you are saying that the old crush sleeve can be reused and tightened until it reaches 20 inch pounds preload?

Here is the old crush sleeve with the new one I got this from napa and it is the part number I found in another thread.







Do you think the crush sleeve is wrong or the original one has crushed that much?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
New crush sleeve is tightened with no regard for the torque needed until the rolling in-lb reading in 10-20 in-lb.
With new bearings you could use the old crush sleeve and go to 140-ish ft-lbs and check the rolling load. IT will almost undoubtedly be the right amount. The crush sleeve has to be changed if some thing changes dimensions but the new bearings dimensions should be the same as old bearings.

The two notches is the preload on carrier bearings.

A little background: the original way bearing preload was done was with a shaft with a stop shoulder for the smaller ID bearing. You assembled the shaft and bearing but no shim would be on the stop shoulder. In its place would be a piece of lead wire. You tightened the retaining nut until rolling load was correct via torque wrench checks. Then you pulled it apart and measured the lead wire to determine a shim thickness to go on stop shoulder and then assembled and torqued retaining nut and the preload was done.
Crush sleeve is a development that cuts down manufacturing time and is not as likely to create mistakes and no assortment of shims has to be kept in stock at each work station, just a big box of crush sleeves. Crush sleeve has to be deformable but has to be a high force to deform.
There was and remains a shim to set the pinion height (lateral insertion depth to ring gear for mesh to be correct) in the right place and it is between the underside of the pinion gear head and that larger bearing that gets pressed on there. Pinion depth is the toughest to get. It requires some precision measurements based on index number on pinion from measurements against a standard at gear making plant. Setting the pinion in the AG case the way it is made would be HARD to do without a load of specialized tools. Another reason to not sell the gear parts for AG's.
So do you think the new crush sleeve will compress that much? Or should I just go with the old one. Check out my pictures.

Thanks Jimmy
 

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If you don't have a LONG flange counterhold and a LONG breaker bar you will have a hell of a time getting the crush sleeve crushed. You'd likely have to go 350 ft-lbs to start the crush and then every motion is going to be 200 ft-lbs+ to get it to the rolling load desired.
With the bearings being the only new parts and the dimensions of those being the same as old ones there is not a need for a new crush sleeve.
If you changing position of pinion, especially when the shim is changed to a thinner one, the crush sleeve needs to be changed.

The photos show a typical amount of crush for a crush sleeve.
 

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Pinion nut

Hello

I am wondering what socket or tool you used to remove/install the Pinion nut? Currently trying to rebuild my rear diff but am unable because I can not get the pinion nut off of my 2004 volvo s60 r..

thanks
 

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My apologies for kicking this old thread back alive, but I have a question that would fit this thread perfectly.

I sourced a secondhand angled gear for my 2004 V70r to repair, and have ‘a play to learn’ without messing up my primairy one and therefore render my car unuseable.

The BG was sold with a note it made a slight noise, so I decided to open it up to asses state of the gears and bearings.

Before I opened the Bg, I noted there was no feelable backlash between pinion and ring gear, nor any play.

I marked and counted the turns of the preload and then removed the preload ring and split the case.
Gears and bearing seem to be perfectly fine, no sign of any wear on any surface. I also remove around 700ml of old oil, so no oil starvation. Oil was darker than original, but no slivers/pieces of metals. So no evidence mechanical parts are worn.

However, after closing, putting back preload ring exactly tightened as before, there is a significant feelable backlash. Around 1 degree, or measured at the output shaft, +/- 2 mm. You can also hear the clicking noise turning the back and forth.

Tighten or loosening the preload nut does not affect the backlash, but does increase friction or introduces a bit of play when loosening.

I opened the case again, measured the backlash on the outer edge of the ring gear. With macrometer in 0.07mm range. However closing case again, and put preload ring back in place I noted the ring pulls the centerline of the shaft of the ring gear a little away from the pinion gear and therefore causing backlash.

Arguably, yes the bearings could be knackered, but how is it they seem to be fine and there was no play before I opened it up. What am I doing wrong? Is there a centricity adjustment of the preload bearing somehow?

On hindsight I suspect the noise came from a worn splined shaft, as it seems to be a bit rounded off.

Cheers,

Rene
 

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The old oil evaporates the volatile parts through vent and the oil thickens. The new oil or assembly oil if you haven't filled it is thinner and the noticeable knock if you turn pinion flange L-R is the result. The only certain way is to measure backlash. That is very tough to do this unit. I drove a dowel into the splines that go into trans, attached strap of steel to the dowel, and then attached a metal plate to the bevel gear trans bolt flange. I used magnetic dial gauge base and measured the backlash on the dowel lever about 2 1/2 inches from center to be about the same as ring gear diameter. the backlash on my 235K mile unit was .08mm. I think it should be less but it worked and was quiet so it was OK. I considered using the oil fill plug and an extension (power antenna last section with the ball end is the same thread as dial gauge end and can be used as extensions if ball is unscrewed and it is cut to needed length). The backlash of the larger ring gear rear are .07-.12mm
 

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cattlecar,

Thanks for your quick answer.

I forgotton to mention or to clarify; I drained the old oil and indeed measures the backlash without any oil. To conserve the BG and prevent oxidation of exposed steel inside, I added a bit of the old oil again as this is a relatively slow project as I try to combine this with unrelated work outside my country.

However, given my CNC milling background working with tolerances <0.05mm, I can already say with the BG assembled again, but without oil, the backlash is much, much worse then before I originally opened. When I get back home in a weeks time, I will measure the backlash at the circumference of the output of the pinion gear, at a distance comparable to the ring gear, but I already know, it is way out......as I said, probably at least 2mm/1 degree at the radius of the edge of the output shaft (thus smaller radius than the ring gear). That will only be bigger, measures at a bigger distance from center.

Also, just to clarify, without the top casing, and the ring-gear resting on it's position on the tapered bearing on the transmission side, there is acceptable backlash between pinion and ring gear.

What I also will try is to add all old oil again, so the old level is restored and should fill all gaps and therefore possibly reduce backlash again.

I will also add pictures at that time.

But thanks for helping think things through.
 
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