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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, so about a month ago, I bought an '07 V70R and drove it back from MN to MA (yep, a haul.) The PO has done an IPD downpipe, TME exhaust, Bell FMIC, and IPD's stage 2 software, as well as some sort of cold air mod, I think, that appears to draw air from next to the driver's side fog light. When the car was being PPI'd by Glasgow Volvo, they commented on how amazingly fast it was, blah blah...made the ludicrous claim that it felt like 400HP. Uh, riiiight...okay. Lastly, they said it would need plugs "soon."<p>The car also had a K&N filter, which was in BAD need of cleaning. I spent a while knocking it over a bucket and came out with a shot glass full of sand and dirt. 3 cleanings with soap later and I almost got the media clean, but I replaced it with a stock filter on personal principle alone (I don't like K&N.)<p>Now, I came from driving a ~270-280HP turbocharged Audi (old school, 5 cyl 20v turbo too.) Similar weight, slightly smaller 2.2L engine. And when I got in and drove the R, it felt really laggy and not much faster, maybe even slower. After a month of driving it, I still can't really get the hang of a hard launch, with the engine bogging down very easily unless I keep revs above 2k.<p>Here's my observations so far:<br>-Mileage is great, I can hit over 24, sometimes 25-26, sticking to within SL+10%.<br>-No codes stored according to MTE Softloader.<br>-MTE softloader logs show a very consistent maximum of 16.25PSI. This is backed by a gauge the PO installed, which reads 16PSI max. IPD says 18-19PSI is what I should see "depending on conditions" (as a long time turbo owner, I know all about this.)<br>-COLD idle (ie, engine not run in an hour or two) is fairly rough, and driving around for the first few minutes, the car feels jerky. Put it in second and very lightly accelerate (ie like the rest of the world) and power drops a little here+there.<br>-warmed up, a pull in 2nd or higher feels a bit rough; it's not a jerk or hesitation, but more like flat spots.<br>-the car frequently softly pops on a lift-for-upshift. I had attributed this to the TME exhaust being louder, but now I'm beginning to wonder.<br>-the turbo control valve appeared to be clean as a whistle. I didn't have jumpers to cycle it open to clean/check it, but I assume since I'm getting above stock boost levels, it's working.<br>-I pulled the battery cable for about 15 minutes and then started the car- there was a noticeable difference in run quality for a bit (I kept off any heavy boost for at least that long.)<p>The plan:<br>-swap in new plugs (thank you John @ BVV for a sane price), eyeball the old ones, and also closely look at the coilpacks (is there a way to electrically test them, ie resistance check?)<p>-remove the MAF sensor+housing (torx+ security bits? Seriously Volvo? Grr) and clean with MAF sensor spray. Removing the whole assembly looked like a minor PITA but not bad, ~2, maybe 3 bolts?<p>-pressurize the system to about 15PSI and listen for leaks. On my Audi, it turns out the a tupperware 1 cup container is the perfect size...what works on the R's? Where is it recommended to pressure-test the system from? Pressurizing the system from the boot coming off the MAF on the Audi had the hilarious side effect of occasionally launching the dipstick into the hood liner <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Does anyone know how much you can get out of the engine computer via ODB2? I don't have any software, but I've been cautioned that many parameters are probably VIDA only. I guess I'm looking for misfire count registers, timing, and MAF sensor flow values...<p>Speaking of which, how does the ECU detect a misfire? Off the coil? Knock sensor? I'm used to distributor cars <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Thanks guys!(and gals)
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

Hmm, I wish I knew who owned that car here in MN. I don't think any of the MN guys here knew about this car and all it's mods...<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>varrhh</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>-the car frequently softly pops on a lift-for-upshift. I had attributed this to the TME exhaust being louder, but now I'm beginning to wonder.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's normal for stock and modded Rs. It's louder and more frequent with modified exhausts. Nothing to worry about. Most folks enjoy it! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (Warpedcow)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Warpedcow</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm, I wish I knew who owned that car here in MN. I don't think any of the MN guys here knew about this car and all it's mods...<p>That's normal for stock and modded Rs. It's louder and more frequent with modified exhausts. Nothing to worry about. Most folks enjoy it! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>That pop is music to my ears, also terrifying for passengers who aren't used to such noises from a Volvo.
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>varrhh</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>-pressurize the system to about 15PSI and listen for leaks. On my Audi, it turns out the a tupperware 1 cup container is the perfect size...what works on the R's? Where is it recommended to pressure-test the system from? Pressurizing the system from the boot coming off the MAF on the Audi had the hilarious side effect of occasionally launching the dipstick into the hood liner <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">(and gals)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You will likely blow out engine seal doing this. A very dumb idea. <br>Intake air systems should be properly checked for leaks with a smoke tester at no more than 1-2 psi. and have the oil cap removed to vent any excess pressure.<p>The MAF can be removed from the airbox by the two NON Security T25 screws.<p>OBDII data is standard PIDS, not a lot of info in $01 on the Volvo's<p>Misfires are detected by the crank sensor as the misfire monitor looks at crankshaft speed. If it sees it slow down and speed up it knows which cylinder is misfiring. You can watch it nicely on a Scope, very apparent. <p>
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

When these cars came into the US in 2004, it was pretty much universally held that they were a "weak" 300 HP under the best of conditions. Nothing changed over the production life.<p>You did not say how many miles were on the plugs, but the change interval for unmodded cars is around 60K miles. Higher boost may shorten that, however I suspect you do not know how many miles this car has on it in a modified state. Regarding the coils I would just do a compare on the primary and secondary resistance of them. The ignition system is quite robust on these cars in my mind, and I would not consider coils or plugs other than OEM. The R plug is unique, and several have had dealers sell them the wrong plugs. That will not happen with John at BVV. <p>Regarding low initial torque, remember this is a 2.5 liter, 8.5:1 compression engine when not under boost. <p>Also not a fan of K&N, just get a stock filter, remove the noise reduction sock.<p>MAF is a 5 point Torx, tamper proof. Screws are self tapping into plastic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (Oceans60R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Oceans60R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You will likely blow out engine seal doing this. A very dumb idea. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Seriously? I find that really surprising. This is SOP with the turbo'd Audis, from the early 10v's, to the early 90's 20vt's and up. Plug the hose off the MAF with a cap of the right size, pressurize, keeping it below stock max pressure (mostly so you don't blow the pressure sensor, which in the old cars, was inside the ECU) and listen for leaks.<p>Granted, you're pressurizing the crank and such, but everything else is designed to handle the same amount of boost every day.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Oceans60R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>The MAF can be removed from the airbox by the two NON Security T25 screws. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sorry chief, I've got a set of Torx Plus security screws on mine. Not the 6-point security ones- these are 5-point security, and nearly impossible to find (Sears, Autozone, Pep Boys, Home Depot...no luck. I presume Snap-On or MAC would.) Apparently the design is patented/licensed and distribution "controlled" because the 6-pt security bits became a joke.<p>So, rather than pay $100 for a set of them, I was planning on removing the 2-3 bolts I saw holding the MAF housing, unless you have any objections.
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

I told you to stop by on the way back now you should IM me.<p>This car and my old R were almost exact twins and are almost exactly the same mod wise except I had a <I>slightly </I>more aggresive tune (timing, but the overall boost was supposed to be the same).<br>I ran a consistent <B>20 lbs </B>(with the usual slight bleed off at high rpms maybe 18-19 at 5800-6500 rpm) but with spikes to 22 even 23 when cold in 3rd gear.<br>Mine started smoothly, ran smoothly and was an absolutel jewel to drive.<br>(at 55000 miles your clutch surely will be different)<br>My hp was around 380 (ish) or so.<br>Something is definitely not right with yours.<br><B><br>DO NOT CLEAN THE MAF ON THE CAR WITHOUT REMOVING IT AND HAVING IT UPRIGHT.</B>(chief)<p>Stock boost is right about 16+ so your not getting full boost and/or it has returned to the OEM program.<p>New plugs will not change this (it may run smoother, boost will not change)<br>Coil packs will not change this (it may run smoother, boost will not change<p><B>You may want to reload the IPD flash</B>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (Warpedcow)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Warpedcow</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm, I wish I knew who owned that car here in MN. I don't think any of the MN guys here knew about this car and all it's mods...<p>That's normal for stock and modded Rs. It's louder and more frequent with modified exhausts. Nothing to worry about. Most folks enjoy it! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>The pops are a liittttle boy-racer-ish, but yeah, did make me giggle for the first few weeks. After a hard pull up to near redline it'd more like a loud crack/pow, and that had me concerned in the context of the problems I was having. Well, I guess that's good that it is "normal".
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I told you to stop by on the way back now you should IM me.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I know, I was traveling and not checking email/the web that much. Sorry, timing just didn't work out.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>DO NOT CLEAN THE MAF ON THE CAR WITHOUT REMOVING IT AND HAVING IT UPRIGHT.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>upright as in axis-of-flow up-down? I wasn't aware orientation was important when cleaning it off the car. Is this to prevent the cleaner from getting somewhere it shouldn't, or...? Some of the MAF cleaning procedures I've read involve tossing the whole thing in a ziplock, adding a cup of isopropyl alcohol, and shaking. Wasn't planning on doing that, just spraying it.<p> I wasn't planning on spraying the cleaner with it on the car (ie into the intake system) that's a great way to get a lovely intake system explosion, methinks.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Stock boost is right about 16+ so your not getting full boost and/or it has returned to the OEM program. New plugs will not change this (it may run smoother, boost will not change) Coil packs will not change this (it may run smoother, boost will not change). You may want to reload the IPD flash</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I said check, not replace.<p>Well, I did have this thought and checked with MTE Softloader using the "what's in the ECU now" button, and it reported back "Stage 2." IPD did suggest driving/logging on the stock tune, so I'll mess with it this evening a bit.
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

I was told by my Volvo tech DO NOT clean the MAF while in the car<br>Do set it back to stock and see what you get<br>New plugs surely won't hurt.<br>I think Brent (Brett?) bought this with higher miles so everything (the mods) is fairly new IIRC<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (Oceans60R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Oceans60R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The MAF can be removed from the airbox by the two NON Security T25 screws.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>OK, I owe you an apology; I read that too quickly. You're absolutely right, the bolts attaching the MAF sensor housing to the airbox are torx non-security screws.<p>Update: I drove the car for about 30 minutes on the stock program, and then 30-45 on the 'stage 2'. I kept things like on both for at least ~10 min or so, a little boost but nothing full throttle. On the highway, I nailed it in 3rd or 4th, and got 16psi or so, and then heelllooooo, a bunch more boost appeared. Backed off (ahem, speed limits). That extra boost never returned <br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>EDIT: Graph attached!<br><A HREF="http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6206/picture13gyy.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6206/picture13gyy.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A><p>That's on the highway. You'll notice the second full-throttle run, there's an odd bit where boost is initially low, and then ZOOM....and then no more <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"><p>I also noticed that the graph is very rough in the full-throttle runs, versus partial throttle where the boost is quite smooth...<p><br><i>Modified by varrhh at 8:08 PM 7-24-2009</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by varrhh at 8:23 PM 7-24-2009</i>
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

Unreadable
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unreadable</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Fixed the graph- the link now goes directly to the full-size image.<p>I've also added a graph with the stock program. The inset graph is a close-up.<p><A HREF="http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2463/picture12l.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2463/picture12l.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A><p>Last but not least, the two runs overlaid. There was no attempt to do similar driving, just compare peaks etc.<p><A HREF="http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8003/picture14z.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8003/picture14z.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A>
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>varrhh</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>upright as in axis-of-flow up-down? I wasn't aware orientation was important when cleaning it off the car. Is this to prevent the cleaner from getting somewhere it shouldn't, or...? Some of the MAF cleaning procedures I've read involve tossing the whole thing in a ziplock, adding a cup of isopropyl alcohol, and shaking. Wasn't planning on doing that, just spraying it.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am still waiting for the answer to this. I was thinking of taking it out tonight and spraying it down until I read that post. Is there something that the cleaner can damage on the MAF once it's removed?
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>varrhh</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Granted, you're pressurizing the crank and such, but everything else is designed to handle the same amount of boost every day.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Exactly, that's why you would use a low pressure smoke test. <br>There isn't any manufacture that would recommend 15 psi of crank case pressure and that is what you are doing. Doesn't bother me if you do, as I make a living fixing many other people's screw ups. So please, go ahead and I'll see you at the repair shop CHIEF <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (varrhh)

How's the long term fuel trim? The mte tunes seem sensitive to maf linearity at high flow, and a not-so-perfect maf will show up as fuel trim pulling towards extremes. Good boost at first pull followed by almost stock levels sounds awfully familiar...
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (Mika)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Mika</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>The mte tunes seem sensitive to maf linearity at high flow</B>, and a not-so-perfect maf will show up as fuel trim pulling towards extremes. <B>Good boost at first pull followed by almost stock levels sounds awfully familiar...</B></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Could you elaborate on this? I haven't come across a mention of this before, and would be interested in further info and/or a link to where it has been discussed.<p>Many thanks,<p>Jeff
 

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Re: Performance issues with a new-to-me R (soupandspoons)

I had a similar problem with my T5 when I switched from BSR to MTE tune. I debugged that with help from Lucky. I also helped a few other T5 and R owners debug the same problem a while ago, and 9 times out of 10 swapping the MAF helped. There may have been some threads on the IPD forum but mostly I come to know about this talking directly with people, not here. <p>Most often the MAF codes and there's no mystery to it, but when the MAF is just slightly off it can give the same symptoms as an intake air leak. It can also cause a front O2 code, because the real AFR differs from the one calculated from mass flow. Of course a faulty MAP or other sensors can be the culprit too for boost problems, but a large fuel trim offset would indicate air measuring problem (or fuel delivery, more rarely). With stock tune the car may run just fine because the MAF stays within its linear region.<br>
 
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