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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi Guys,

I have a 2006 XC70 with 174,000 miles on it, this is my second P2 Volvo. I purchased the car about 3 months ago and have been trying to get everything fixed up. I noticed smoke coming from the dipstick and did a glove test (which had positive pressure), and got the PCV system serviced at a reputable shop. They replaced the oil trap, and three hoses (at least what they wrote on the invoice). When they did this work the car had 170,585 miles on it, and to be honest I didn't even look at the dipstick or anything after they did their work, I had stuff done at this shop many times before without issues.

About a week ago I noticed smoke coming out of the dipstick again, not very much but definitely noticeable. So I performed a glove test and found the glove to slowly inflate until its full, but it would not expand. I was taking the car into the shop again for coolant and transmission fluid changes, and had them look at the PCV.

When I picked up the car, he said that the smoke was "normal operation" of the Volvo engines, and that the PCV looked good. I never looked at my S80's dipstick while running, so I don't know if it is truly normal operation, but I'm fairly certain it is not supposed to be smoking at all. The car has been getting very good fuel economy (27-30 MPG highway), it was getting much worse before the PCV service, so it definitely made a difference. So, is a small amount of smoke/pressure normal at idle? If I rev the engine a little, it seems to stop smoking a good amount, or at least suck some of the smoke back in.

I have done some searching on the forums, but I couldn't find anything that is like my scenario. Any advice on what this probably is, or if this is actually normal would be greatly appreciated. I drive 1,000+ miles a week for work, so I need to be absolutely sure that my vehicle is reliable.

Thanks guys!


Part #'s of hoses replaced (according to invoice): 30677388, 8692217, 8653339
 

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Hi Guys,

I have a 2006 XC70 with 174,000 miles on it, this is my second P2 Volvo. I purchased the car about 3 months ago and have been trying to get everything fixed up. I noticed smoke coming from the dipstick and did a glove test (which had positive pressure), and got the PCV system serviced at a reputable shop. They replaced the oil trap, and three hoses (at least what they wrote on the invoice). When they did this work the car had 170,585 miles on it, and to be honest I didn't even look at the dipstick or anything after they did their work, I had stuff done at this shop many times before without issues.

About a week ago I noticed smoke coming out of the dipstick again, not very much but definitely noticeable. So I performed a glove test and found the glove to slowly inflate until its full, but it would not expand. I was taking the car into the shop again for coolant and transmission fluid changes, and had them look at the PCV.

When I picked up the car, he said that the smoke was "normal operation" of the Volvo engines, and that the PCV looked good. I never looked at my S80's dipstick while running, so I don't know if it is truly normal operation, but I'm fairly certain it is not supposed to be smoking at all. The car has been getting very good fuel economy (27-30 MPG highway), it was getting much worse before the PCV service, so it definitely made a difference. So, is a small amount of smoke/pressure normal at idle? If I rev the engine a little, it seems to stop smoking a good amount, or at least suck some of the smoke back in.

I have done some searching on the forums, but I couldn't find anything that is like my scenario. Any advice on what this probably is, or if this is actually normal would be greatly appreciated. I drive 1,000+ miles a week for work, so I need to be absolutely sure that my vehicle is reliable.

Thanks guys!


Part #'s of hoses replaced (according to invoice): 30677388, 8692217, 8653339
If the PCV is clean, ports on block clean, etc... Then what ya have is a little blow-by and on a high mileage motor this is normal. A manometer that measures pressure would be a more accurate test than then glove to measure the pressure, however the glove blowing up will suffice. Pressure will push out a seal, you may want to leave the dipstick just barely unseated so it vents that pressure. Wouldn't want your rear main to deploy..
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If the PCV is clean, ports on block clean, etc... Then what ya have is a little blow-by and on a high mileage motor this is normal. A manometer that measures pressure would be a more accurate test than then glove to measure the pressure, however the glove blowing up will suffice. Pressure will push out a seal, you may want to leave the dipstick just barely unseated so it vents that pressure. Wouldn't want your rear main to deploy..
Do you think the pressure is a concern though, seeing as it does not blow up the glove, it just inflates it enough to stand it up? It inflates pretty slowly, and I tried bringing the engine up to 2500 rpm and it does not inflate the glove any more than at idle, and it seems to smoke less at higher RPMs, but you can still see it.

I will have the shop measure the pressure of the engine, is there a specific range it should be within?

I'm wondering if the block ports were cleaned or not...
This is what I'm really wondering, I'm going to be bringing the car in again soon, and I'll ask more details about every part that was replaced.

I also remember hearing the hose from the intake manifold to the oil trap is a commonly clogged hose, and by the looks of it it was not replaced during the PCV service.


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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Latest update:

Took the car into the shop again for an oil change, and I also spoke to them about work performed. They do quite a bit of work on Volvos, and it shows with their knowledge of the system.

When they performed the service, they cleaned the PCV, replaced oil trap and hoses mentioned above. They also dropped the oil pan and unclogged all ports.

I asked for a manometer test, and he said it came back at .003 kPa. I was told the same thing, that blow-by will cause this and recommended a specific oil treatment that they found to be really good.

So, it seems that the PCV is in fact clean, and blow-by is the issue.

Also, there was oil on top of the engine near the coils, so I replaced the oil cap and ordered extra seals from IPD, but is there any possibility this is because of crankcase pressure?

So my question is, what's next? I was reading about a PCV mod with bigger hoses to accommodate the blow-by of a high mileage motor, but it was for a 850. Is this still something I could do with this car, or is the PCV design very different?

Here is the forum topic:
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53448

Also, with such a low amount of pressure, I'd imagine the risk of blowing a seal is pretty low, should I still leave the dipstick unseated?


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.003 kpa is a really small number, but its still positive. There are piston soaks where you pull the plugs and pour in a "magic" potion that seeps thru the compression rings and helps loosen crud from the oil control rings.
I use a oil solvent called Kroil made by Kano laboratories that's really good. On their website they sell a piston soak called Kreen.
Does the wagon use oil?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
.003 kpa is a really small number, but its still positive. There are piston soaks where you pull the plugs and pour in a "magic" potion that seeps thru the compression rings and helps loosen crud from the oil control rings.
I use a oil solvent called Kroil made by Kano laboratories that's really good. On their website they sell a piston soak called Kreen.
Does the wagon use oil?
The shop I had it serviced at used an oil additive that is supposed to "loosen crud", I forget what it was called though- but the owner said it works really well and is very low risk.

And I need to take a better look now that I just got an oil change, but it does not seem to consume any oil. I'll know more about that with a week of driving.

Any idea how long oil treatments usually take for this? I feel like a modification of the PCV system to handle the blow-by might be necessary.


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Did you specifically ask if they unclogged the port to the pan?
 

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If its not using any oil, I would not modify the PCV system. You just hope that they cleaned out all the stuff they needed to, before they installed the new hoses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Did you specifically ask if they unclogged the port to the pan?
I asked for information on everything that was performed, and all hoses (that were not replaced) and ports were cleaned, he specifically said they dropped the oil pan and unclogged the ports going to the pan.

He said the PCV was definitely completely cleaned, and that any pressure would be from blow-by.

If its not using any oil, I would not modify the PCV system. You just hope that they cleaned out all the stuff they needed to, before they installed the new hoses.
We'll see how the car does after a little bit of driving, but I'd like to know for sure that my engine is reliable and not going to leak oil. Although knowing it's only .003 kPa definitely makes me feel better about driving long distances.


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ANYTHING plus is not good
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ANYTHING plus is not good
Yes I know it's still positive pressure, but it's a very small amount. At least the risk of blowing a seal is low at this pressure, but I know the engine wants vacuum.

But if I have blow-by and the oil treatment does not work, how would I deal with the crankcase pressure? The PCV system clearly cannot handle the blow-by in my engine.


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I took a new oil cap and drilled a hole in it and shoved 1/4" OD air brake tubing through it. Then I'm using a Dwyer 0 to 2 in wc mechanical manometer as the gauge. Mines way negative this morning at 19 degrees F, and I'll post what it is later today after a 50 mile run.
My previous 2001 V70 t5 was negative, but barely moved the gauge. This 2002 V70 lpt really moves the gauge negative when the engine is cold. I'll retest it later today.
This is a little over $100 of gauging that will let me decide when to get the PCV serviced.
I recently retired and left two Dwyer 0-4 in wc and kpa calibrated digital gauges at work. The mechanical gauge works fine, and you can see the gauge swing positive or negative.
 

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In the picture, I "zeroed" the guage at 1" wc, and it pegged left when my wife started the car.
Also see the crap that the resident Red Squirrel leaves on this engine valve cover. Every week I lift the hood to check for damage!
Red squirrels are brutal!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
In the picture, I "zeroed" the guage at 1" wc, and it pegged left when my wife started the car.
Also see the crap that the resident Red Squirrel leaves on this engine valve cover. Every week I lift the hood to check for damage!
Red squirrels are brutal!!
Interesting, I never looked at my PCV with a cold engine. I'll have to test it out today, unfortunately not with a gauge. I should just get one and install it right on the dash. (Half joking)

I'll post a picture/video of the cold and warm glove test.

Hopefully this oil treatment will help a little bit, it shouldn't take much to get .003 kPa to negative pressure.

Isn't it fun sharing your engine compartment with nature? My brother has a 98 V70 T5m that definitely had its share of "residents".

Edit: Come to think of it there was traces of a mouse in my car in the back, no squirrels yet though!

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This is a little over $100 of gauging that will let me decide when to get the PCV serviced.
Too bad.
For $135 I could have got you the correct gauge from Volvo with all the correct tubing.
All you do is shove it into the dipstick tube.
(You do not measure from the oil fill)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Too bad.
For $135 I could have got you the correct gauge from Volvo with all the correct tubing.
All you do is shove it into the dipstick tube.
(You do not measure from the oil fill)
Really it's only $135? I thought it would be more than that. One more thing I want to get...

But why don't you measure from the oil fill, is that inaccurate?

UPDATE:
I checked the motor cold, immediately after starting it so it was still at ~1200 RPM. No visible smoke from dipstick or oil filler cap, although I did not do a glove test yet with a cold motor.

I drove about 10 miles and checked it again once it was at operating temp. It was still smoking from dipstick and oil filler, but not as much smoke as before the oil treatment. I have a video of the glove test, but my phone cut off the end of the video from storage space....

https://vimeo.com/154496501

But you can still see the glove barely inflates, once I stood it up at the end (where it cuts off of course) it still did not inflate all the way. I gently held the glove so it could not expand anymore and you can feel it pulse, almost like a heartbeat. So based on the glove test compared to before it seems to have less pressure, although I'm still going to drive with my dipstick unseated.
 
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