SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,
I have been looking on this and other forums but did not find any information on it. Apologies if I missed a thread.

Concerns Volvo XC90-V8 from 2006. It has alarm built into it and all the accessories available at the time (except rear AC and Side cameras)

I have the issue that my battery is empty after 2-4 days or so and have investigated the following (assuming there can be 3 reasons):
- Generator/Alternator: I have put an Ampmeter on the plus cable from the alternator. Conclusion is that is does not seem to be an issue because when I switch on all kinds of consumers (Heat Seating, Blower, lights, etc) it shows 125 Amps on the Ampmeter.
- Battery: the battery has been replaced 3 months ago
- Parasitic Current Draw on the battery: when the car is in rest, I read 0,10 to 0.12 Amps. For this I have put amp meter in between negative of the battery and the negative cable.
- Full charge: when battery is fully charged with a powercharger and put in the car; after 1,5 days the voltage has dropped with 0,4 volt or so. Battery is a 100aH battery

The Parasitic Current Draw is mainly (0,08 Amps) on fuse nr 11C/11 which has the following functions:
  • 3/157 Switch airbag passenger side, XC90
  • 4/9 Supplemental Restraint System module (SRS), XC90
  • 4/28 Transmission Control Module (TCM), XC90
  • 4/46 Engine Control Module (ECM), XC90
  • 4/56 Central Electronic Module (CEM), XC90
  • 4/58 Rear Electronic Module (REM), XC90
  • 16/65 Antenna ring/ignition switch lighting, XC90
The rest of the Batter Drain (0,03 Amps or so) I can not find by pulling fuses in any of the fuse boxes.

So my basic question is:
- Is 0.10 to 0.12 Amps considered a normal Parasitic Battery Drain for this car?
- Although Battery is new; I can only think that it must be defective again. After replacing the battery I did not notice a difference between old and new in terms of having the low battery issue after a short time
- Am I missing anything?

Thx for your help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
My 10 year old battery was about 11 and 12 ish when started. My new battery is 12.3 and 14 when started.

Don’t know if the V8 and 3.2 make a difference.

Do you have a Vida/Dice


2010 xc90 3.2 | 2017 Prius V Five
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,071 Posts
It sounds like your draw is too high. When you measure the draw are you letting the car sit for a while so the modules can "go to sleep"? It can take up to half an hour or so for this to happen. The draw should drop to around 20ma, IIRC. Every time you pull a fuse you run the risk of waking something up. Again, pull the fuse and let the car sit for half an hour, then read the meter.

I've been chasing a similar problem since I got my XC90. Service records seem to indicate it's been on going since the car was new. Hope your luck is better than mine!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That is indeed the process I am following; let it sit for long time. It is however this specific fuse that has the high draw. Unfortunately connected to a lot of the tricky modules (SRS, etc)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
875 Posts
A difficult issue to solve. With the engine bay open (Hood? Bonnet?) there is already a circuit involved with the DIM. When the electrical circuit on the vehicle is opened by disconnecting the battery for testing, it's possible that the component causing the drain may be switched off from it's incorrect behavior. As always, the best thing is to return to basics. Since the vehicle self-discharges over days not in use, the simple thing is to disconnect the battery during one of these non-use periods to see if it is the battery itself that discharges, bearing in mind that some self discharge of surface voltage is to be expected. To avoid confusing that phenomenon, let the vehicle cool, then turn on the ignition and headlights for maybe 30 seconds, then disconnect the battery terminal and read the voltage with a proper meter, and then read the voltage again some days later. Variance in the millivolt area can likely be discounted, but anything in whole numbers could be suspect.
If it passes that test, then identifying the fault is again the difficulty. One possibility would be to defeat the hood/bonnet trigger, allow the vehicle to cool completely, and then scan the car with thermal imaging. Any "live" component may have an abnormal heat signature. Another possibility would be to install a sensitive shunt type of ammeter, that allows engine starting and normal operation while being able to monitor current draw from outside of the vehicle without activating or disturbing circuits.
One issue is that the real drain on the battery may be thermally triggered, in that the fault doesn't appear until a temperature threshold is reached, like when the car cools sufficiently overnight. A recording multi-meter would be desirable to be used in conjunction with any tests.
As for the live circuit you've identified, the arithmetic suggest it's not at issue. Your 100 Ah battery can be specified in a number of ways, so reading the manufacturers specs could be helpful, but, assuming that at least the battery is capable of serving a 1 amp current for 100 hours until fully discharged at 10.5 volts, your current draw of 0.1 amps should kill the battery after 1,000 hours. Marine batteries are often specified as 20 amp current draw at XXX Ah, automotive batteries can be whatever marketing demands.
Another possibility is that the battery is not coming up to charge when operated. The battery can be discharging little by little during operation until the final fault manifests itself after the resting period. In the 70's, Volvo had exactly that issue with new cars in the Phoenix market where the constant use of air conditioning in conjunction with slow city driving resulted in dead batteries on a wholesale basis in the new car population. That can be monitored with a good quality cigarette lighter receptacle voltmeter.
Does the 2006 have the battery monitor that must be reset in VIDA when the battery is replaced?
Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Do you have XM radio? I went through a similar years long saga, and it ended up being a software update for the XM radio antenna.
I do not know what an XM radio is; is that XM Satellite Radio? In that case I do not have that. It has the Volvo Entertainment Centre
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
A difficult issue to solve. With the engine bay open (Hood? Bonnet?) there is already a circuit involved with the DIM. When the electrical circuit on the vehicle is opened by disconnecting the battery for testing, it's possible that the component causing the drain may be switched off from it's incorrect behavior. As always, the best thing is to return to basics. Since the vehicle self-discharges over days not in use, the simple thing is to disconnect the battery during one of these non-use periods to see if it is the battery itself that discharges, bearing in mind that some self discharge of surface voltage is to be expected. To avoid confusing that phenomenon, let the vehicle cool, then turn on the ignition and headlights for maybe 30 seconds, then disconnect the battery terminal and read the voltage with a proper meter, and then read the voltage again some days later. Variance in the millivolt area can likely be discounted, but anything in whole numbers could be suspect.
If it passes that test, then identifying the fault is again the difficulty. One possibility would be to defeat the hood/bonnet trigger, allow the vehicle to cool completely, and then scan the car with thermal imaging. Any "live" component may have an abnormal heat signature. Another possibility would be to install a sensitive shunt type of ammeter, that allows engine starting and normal operation while being able to monitor current draw from outside of the vehicle without activating or disturbing circuits.
One issue is that the real drain on the battery may be thermally triggered, in that the fault doesn't appear until a temperature threshold is reached, like when the car cools sufficiently overnight. A recording multi-meter would be desirable to be used in conjunction with any tests.
As for the live circuit you've identified, the arithmetic suggest it's not at issue. Your 100 Ah battery can be specified in a number of ways, so reading the manufacturers specs could be helpful, but, assuming that at least the battery is capable of serving a 1 amp current for 100 hours until fully discharged at 10.5 volts, your current draw of 0.1 amps should kill the battery after 1,000 hours. Marine batteries are often specified as 20 amp current draw at XXX Ah, automotive batteries can be whatever marketing demands.
Another possibility is that the battery is not coming up to charge when operated. The battery can be discharging little by little during operation until the final fault manifests itself after the resting period. In the 70's, Volvo had exactly that issue with new cars in the Phoenix market where the constant use of air conditioning in conjunction with slow city driving resulted in dead batteries on a wholesale basis in the new car population. That can be monitored with a good quality cigarette lighter receptacle voltmeter.
Does the 2006 have the battery monitor that must be reset in VIDA when the battery is replaced?
Good Luck!
Thanks for the extensive description. I will try the disconnected battery discharge analysis once more to rule that out. I tend to test with the bonnet closed and with the car locked (tricking the sensors by closing the door catch (if that is the right word) with a screwdriver. This puts the car in full rest mode, alarm on, lights off, etc.
I do not need to reset battery monitor with Vida as far as I am aware (no error codes showing in Dash).

Next step I am thinking of is disconnecting modules and relays but I am not certain if that is going to cause issues that need to be fixed by a Dealer.
For that I have the wiring diagram which is tricky to read (did not find a simple instruction yet).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
671 Posts
I do not know what an XM radio is; is that XM Satellite Radio? In that case I do not have that. It has the Volvo Entertainment Centre
Correct. But I dont think having the entertainment center rules out XM. You would have an antenna on the roof towards the rear of the vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Folks, circle back to post #1, it's a 2006. Sat and Aux come in 2007 as does BLIS and the first facelift.

Would not hurt to check fuse 8 on the CEM block (siren module). May not be the problem but it's one area to consider for a vehicle of this age. Internal battey leak issue is well known, although most times you'll code for something if it's real bad.

OP, your approach is sound, it will be interesting to see what the cause ends up being.
Thx. I believe my 2006 is model 2007; it has that pop-up sat nav. Not sure what Aux is (did not read that in posts above but might have missed it). I will indeed check fuse nr 8 on CEM block.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,025 Posts
Thx. I believe my 2006 is model 2007; it has that pop-up sat nav. Not sure what Aux is (did not read that in posts above but might have missed it). I will indeed check fuse nr 8 on CEM block.
If you side marker lights are on the mirrors, it's a 2007+ if they are in the middle door it's pre-2007.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,831 Posts
If I think about it later, I'll check what current draw is on mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,071 Posts
THx. I do not have such an antenna. It is antenna-less on the outside.
The antennas (antennae?) are under the plastic rear roof skin; you cannot see them. Turn the right knob on the radio. If "SAT" is one of the choices, you have XM. It has been said that if you have SAT1 and SAT2 then you already have the update. Don't know if that's true; I have Sat 1 and 2 and also a parasitic draw issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The antennas (antennae?) are under the plastic rear roof skin; you cannot see them. Turn the right knob on the radio. If "SAT" is one of the choices, you have XM. It has been said that if you have SAT1 and SAT2 then you already have the update. Don't know if that's true; I have Sat 1 and 2 and also a parasitic draw issue.
When I turn the right knob I see FM1 and FM2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,251 Posts
I came across this in VIDA while looking for something else-

"Babbling control module: A control module that sends correctly formed messages on the CAN cables when it should actually be in sleep mode and as a result keeps the CAN network active. An obvious symptom is a discharged battery but no diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) stored. A babbling control module will not produce interference on the CAN network while the car is being driven. A control module with incorrect software can occasionally produce symptoms similar to those from a babbling control module. This is detected using the fault-tracing method described below. The usual solution is to load new software.

Disruptive control module: A control module that sends incorrectly formed messages on the CAN network, resulting in disruptions in the traffic between different control modules in the CAN network. This can result in the entire CAN network being shut down. Communication-related diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) are normally stored. "

There's a reasonable amount of description, enough that it might be worth checking out. Think it's TNN 37-25, you can find it in VIDA if you go into one of the CAN signal fault codes and get to "General information about fault-tracing in the CAN network".

Zero idea if there's a specific range involved but it seems like this is one scenario where battery can go dead and no codes are generated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
FWIW 2012 XC60. Just measured my quiescent current at -19ma with the infotainment screen running, radio off. Battery voltage hits 14v with engine running but I have a few issues that may indicate my battery is on the way out:

Low battery warning after a minute with the ignition off.
Power save mode warning after 2 minutes or so.
Intermittent parking brake fault sporadically. I had this warning for a days straight after car was parked for a week.
Tailgate hatch goes awfully slow if used more than a few times with ignition off.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top