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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These Gen 1/P2 comparisons are discussed ad nauseum....I know. But typically you see the conversation between R cars.

I have been looking for a nice example of the 98 T5M but of course recently came across two different 01's that are quite nice as well. I know how rare the 98's are but not quite sure about the 01's, doesn't seem to be many of them either.

Besides the ETM issues and the fact Gen 1's are easier to work/source parts on, can anyone comment on their opinions...preferably someone who has driven both. I believe straight-line performance wise they are very similar but from what I've gathered the 98's are a little rawer and perhaps handle spirited driving a little more fluidly. I've owned a 97 855R so I'm somewhat familiar with those characteristics.

Anyways, thoughts and opinions are what I'm seeking....rarity, numbers, characteristics....the like....even small things like the stereos and seats are welcomed comments.
 

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01 T5 seats light years better than 98.

You really can't compare 98 to 01. Both are worlds different.

Personally I'd take them both. ;-)
 

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I loooooooove my '01 T5m. They exist, but are kinda uncommon. I think the P80's aren't really EASIER to work on, they just are different. The ETM issue does exist, I was lucky enough to score one that worked, and went dead, but then the dealer replaced it all for free.

I do all of my own work on my '01, and frankly, it's very simple to work with. The steering feel on an the P80 and P2 are a lot different; The P2 body feels a lot better once you've put some money and time into it, but stock-for-stock, the steering feel is kinda 'meh' in the P2. P80 gave you a lot more direct feeling on the road.

For the P2, I'd suggest subframe bushings and replacing all the motor mounts straight away (Stock mounts are my prefs, since I don't really want the vibes. I'd recommend doing the engine bar to strut brace conversion, though.) This helps with steering feel immensely. The reason I say the mounts is that you'll feel which ones are bad as soon as you put the subframe bushings from IPD in.

As the P80 ages, and parts get tired, I find it feels a little less rattly than the P2's. Though the P80's are by no means rattle-less, mind. They just feel more solid to me. This is easily fixed with time and patience, and lots of little maintenance tasks. (Which I find kind of cathartic. YMMV.)

As was mentioned, the seats are WAAAAAAAAAAY nicer in the P2. The later P2, they got even better, in fact.

The P2 is generally just quieter inside, however. The P80 was a touch on the loud side, as more noise gets transmitted to the cabin through the engine and tranny mountings, as well as from the suspension. This adds up when in the car for long road trips.

The dual mass flywheel also feels a lot different than the single mass flywheel, as far as power transfer. Smooths it out on the P2, but since I swapped mine to a single mass flywheel, I'm happier with it, so that's likely a matter of preference only.

It all really depends on what you want from a car, overall. Both will serve you well, but if depending on your intentions, you'll probably favor one over the other.
 

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GEN 1 (or P80) NOT P1
 

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Post fixed; Pardon the confusing nomenclature. P1 refers to the C70/C30/V40 of certain generations, I just got into the bad habit of calling the P80 chassis cars P1's instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
GEN 1 (or P80) NOT P1
Thanks for the on-topic contribution and cleaning that up....no one here would have had a clue what he was talking about if you hadn't................

I loooooooove my '01 T5m. They exist, but are kinda uncommon. I think the P80's aren't really EASIER to work on, they just are different. The ETM issue does exist, I was lucky enough to score one that worked, and went dead, but then the dealer replaced it all for free.

I do all of my own work on my '01, and frankly, it's very simple to work with. The steering feel on an the P80 and P2 are a lot different; The P2 body feels a lot better once you've put some money and time into it, but stock-for-stock, the steering feel is kinda 'meh' in the P2. P80 gave you a lot more direct feeling on the road.

For the P2, I'd suggest subframe bushings and replacing all the motor mounts straight away (Stock mounts are my prefs, since I don't really want the vibes. I'd recommend doing the engine bar to strut brace conversion, though.) This helps with steering feel immensely. The reason I say the mounts is that you'll feel which ones are bad as soon as you put the subframe bushings from IPD in.

As the P80 ages, and parts get tired, I find it feels a little less rattly than the P2's. Though the P80's are by no means rattle-less, mind. They just feel more solid to me. This is easily fixed with time and patience, and lots of little maintenance tasks. (Which I find kind of cathartic. YMMV.)

As was mentioned, the seats are WAAAAAAAAAAY nicer in the P2. The later P2, they got even better, in fact.

The P2 is generally just quieter inside, however. The P80 was a touch on the loud side, as more noise gets transmitted to the cabin through the engine and tranny mountings, as well as from the suspension. This adds up when in the car for long road trips.

The dual mass flywheel also feels a lot different than the single mass flywheel, as far as power transfer. Smooths it out on the P2, but since I swapped mine to a single mass flywheel, I'm happier with it, so that's likely a matter of preference only.

It all really depends on what you want from a car, overall. Both will serve you well, but if depending on your intentions, you'll probably favor one over the other.
Thanks for the actual contribution. That's exactly the type of info I'm looking for. I wish I had a better idea on the rarity of the P2 T5M's. I know there weren't but a little over 100 98 T5M's....

Interesting that you say the P2's are a little more prone to rattle than the Gen 1's....that's not what I had gathered so far. Thanks for the info.

01 T5 seats light years better than 98.

You really can't compare 98 to 01. Both are worlds different.

Personally I'd take them both. ;-)
Yes, the "worlds different" part is what I'm trying to grasp a little better. In the end, I'm sure I'll just take the safe route and go with the most well-maintained.
 

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Since I've had many of both, (and still drive both) I think I can try to qualify this.
For me (and many many others), Gen 1 seats, especially R seats, are the most comfortable car seats on the planet.
I find P2 seats "good"... but nowhere near as comfy as a Gen 1 seat.
If you chase after a Gen 1 you can keep the squeaks and rattles to a minimum with usually no rattles in sedans.
Yes the P2 is generally a much quieter car, it also lost a "feel" which is hard to quantify.
A good Gen 1, a well taken care of Volvo, is like an old shoe. It becomes more comfortable as it wears in and like an old shoe you love, new heels and soles make it like new but it holds that quality you love (ie, rebuild the suspension every 100K miles or so)
I don't find this with most P2 Volvos especially 01s thru 03s with the old steering and brakes
Starting in 04 the steering racks changed and also the brakes, both of these gave P2 a MUCH better road feel and not detached like the early ones
 

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Yeah, I think this may just be my experience, perhaps, but it's what I've found to be the case. 'Rattle' is probably the wrong word, but rather 'excessive noise from the interior due to vibration and shifting.' The P2, especially the '01-03, are a bit on the plastic-y side, which contributes to this, especially after the car has worn away some of it's anti-rattle tape's effective life. I may also just be kind of picky about that sort of thing, too, so YMMV.

- Eddie

Interesting that you say the P2's are a little more prone to rattle than the Gen 1's....that's not what I had gathered so far. Thanks for the info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Since I've had many of both, (and still drive both) I think I can try to qualify this.
For me (and many many others), Gen 1 seats, especially R seats, are the most comfortable car seats on the planet.
I find P2 seats "good"... but nowhere near as comfy as a Gen 1 seat.
If you chase after a Gen 1 you can keep the squeaks and rattles to a minimum with usually no rattles in sedans.
Yes the P2 is generally a much quieter car, it also lost a "feel" which is hard to quantify.
A good Gen 1, a well taken care of Volvo, is like an old shoe. It becomes more comfortable as it wears in and like an old shoe you love, new heels and soles make it like new but it holds that quality you love (ie, rebuild the suspension every 100K miles or so)
I don't find this with most P2 Volvos especially 01s thru 03s with the old steering and brakes
Starting in 04 the steering racks changed and also the brakes, both of these gave P2 a MUCH better road feel and not detached like the early ones
Yeah, I think this may just be my experience, perhaps, but it's what I've found to be the case. 'Rattle' is probably the wrong word, but rather 'excessive noise from the interior due to vibration and shifting.' The P2, especially the '01-03, are a bit on the plastic-y side, which contributes to this, especially after the car has worn away some of it's anti-rattle tape's effective life. I may also just be kind of picky about that sort of thing, too, so YMMV.

- Eddie
Cool. Thanks for both of y'alls input. Nice shoe parable, makes sense.

I think I could be happy with either in the end. Jim, do you have any knowledge on the manuf numbers for the 01 T5M's here in US? Comparable to the 98's? Rarity isn't my biggest concern but it's always good to know.
 

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I would think it would be much easier to find a '01 T5M and is obvioulsy the next generation platform from the 850/870 that was designed in the early nineties. Though I don't know the production numbers you see many more listed for sale. Production numbers dropped off significantly after '01 it seems. There is a nice T5M for sale in the classifieds - canadian car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oddly enough, I believe I actually have found less 01's than I have 98's. Not by much, but enough to make me believe they have to be somewhere around the same numbers (so the 200-300 I would imagine myself). That 05 Canadian is nice but neither the generations I'm looking at or anywhere around my budget. If you are talking about that 98, it's not bad but not exactly a deal right now either. By the time I addressed the seats, paint and A/C....I could have just bought a cleaner one for less money. I admit the miles are nice but it doesn't look like it may have been treated all too friendly during that 100k with all that interior wear. It's not bad...just not what I'm looking for currently.
 

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Chatted with a buddy at the Volvo dealership today while picking up my oil filters. Here's what he said after a bit of research:

1998 : 361 cars
2001 : 115 cars

All of the 2001 came in through a single port in New Jersey. He wasn't sure if this was the case for the 1998.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow, very cool you inquired and came back. Thanks!

Thought there was less 98's than that but it doesn't surprise me to see the 01 numbers that low. I've come across almost three manual T5 98's to every one manual T5 2001's in the past couple months of looking....
 

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That is incorrect
361 is the number of manual 1998 S70T5's (Sedans)
Wagon production was far less
 

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I'll have to ask my friend to make sure he looked up the right number. I wasn't peering over his shoulder, so I dunno. In either case, I just emailed Volvo Customer Relations to see if they could answer it more definitively. I asked them for the counts between 1998 and 2003, per year.

- Eddie

That is incorrect
361 is the number of manual 1998 S70T5's (Sedans)
Wagon production was far less
 
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