[VolvoGoteborg]

SPA-1 60 and 90 series already have an MHEV and a PHEV option. Likely carried over to the SPA-1 facelifts too

 

[rfkuehn]

SPA-2 was intended to offer MHEV, PHEV and EV. Only reason the ICE versions of MHEV and PHEV were dropped is Volvo feels the need to commit to an EV future and move away from ICE vehicles. Then they reconsidered the risk of only offering EVs as not all global markets are ready for them and they then decided to facelift and upgrade the SPA-1 cars alongside the new EV only SPA-2 cars.

Of course I can't find it now, but I picked up somewhere that PHEV wasn't going to work on SPA2. Best, wild guess is that PHEV battery placement wasn't working out on the ICE skateboard, and PHEV of course wouldn't fit on EV skateboard either. So perhaps would require a 3rd skateboard that would also have wrecked the redesigned center console/armrest/tunnel, which was the deal breaker. Dunno, just speculating.

And as you said, risk of dropping ICE/PHEV in a healthy market for it, plus continued delays for EX90 (didn't dealers leave Miami back in Feb expecting late-2022 production, only to take on another year's delay?), not to mention its lower projected volume, was a no-go. Hence, (Geely directed?) retention of SPA1 for PHEV and MH.

 

[Mjoelnir]

Polestar's product plan has been updated

 

[ChrisJB84]

View attachment 175312

Polestar's product plan has been updated

I’m very curious what the Polestar 4 SUV will look like and which Precept design language will influence which parts of the car. That Polestar team has been on point. Can’t praise them enough so far.

 

[rfkuehn]

View attachment 175312

Polestar's product plan has been updated

Meh.

How about a redo of P*1 as EV on SPA2? Even better, revive Concept XC Coupe? Hell, why not the Estate?

 

[rfkuehn]

Volvo EX60 electric SUV: Tesla Model Y rival debuts by 2026

Volvo Cars has confirmed that it plans to launch an electric alternative to the XC60. This Tesla Model Y rival is likely to be called 'Volvo EX60.'

topelectricsuv.com

 

[cplchanb]

Wow what happeend to the affordable part... they dropped the prices for the p2 and looks like after p4 it will skyrocket again.... I was hoping you be able to afford the p5 but looks like that's out the window

 

[Mjoelnir]

Meh.

How about a redo of P*1 as EV on SPA2? Even better, revive Concept XC Coupe? Hell, why not the Estate?
View attachment 175324

Yes, they looked very good. However, they are almost 10 years old now. The world evolves. Get over it that they will never reach production. They turned into XC60, V60 and Polestar 1, and that's it. Now, Volvo has a new head of design. Volvo and Polestar have already taken new design directions, so these concepts won't be coming back, as hard as you wish. Even if you wish for it in every second of your postings.

 

[Mikael793]

I wonder how they want to get to 50% BEV by 2025, or even 2026, if the EX60 isn't in full production by January 2025 (or 26).

Volvo will sell around 50k BEVs this year. XC40 & C40 might get you to 100K in 3 years. EX30 might get another 30k. EX90 another 100k (likely less).

50% of 800k would mean 400k BEVs sold. I believe it was stated last year, that the goal for mid-decade is 1.2 million. 600k BEVs.

 

[medels]

I wonder how they want to get to 50% BEV by 2025, or even 2026, if the EX60 isn't in full production by January 2025 (or 26).

Volvo will sell around 50k BEVs this year. XC40 & C40 might get you to 100K in 3 years. EX30 might get another 30k. EX90 another 100k (likely less).

50% of 800k would mean 400k BEVs sold. I believe it was stated last year, that the goal for mid-decade is 1.2 million. 600k BEVs.

I agree with you that without a 60-serie BEV the goal seems hard to reach.
Maybe an early EX60 production in China? We know that Polestar will present the P4 next year.
As seen with the P3/EX90, The EX60/P4 duo will certainly share the same technical base and release date.

If priced correctly the EX30 can have a certain sucess in Europe. 30k seems low to me.
Maybe hard to believe but the Fiat 500 BEV is the third most sold EV in Europe.
Tesla Y and 3 excepted, the top 20 BEV in Europe consists mainly of small hatch/SUV will a <200 miles range.

We will also see if Volvo will count Polestar cars in this mix...

 

[rfkuehn]

Yes, they looked very good. However, they are almost 10 years old now. The world evolves. Get over it that they will never reach production. They turned into XC60, V60 and Polestar 1, and that's it. Now, Volvo has a new head of design. Volvo and Polestar have already taken new design directions, so these concepts won't be coming back, as hard as you wish. Even if you wish for it in every second of your postings.

Well I figured most wouldn’t interpret that literally. Was suggesting some mainstream 2-3 door models in the lineup.

But a fair counterpoint would be 2-3 doors are pretty much disappearing from the market. My own desire for a 3-door crossover coupe (e.g. Concept XC Coupe) is countered by Land Rover ditching the 3-door Evoque due to poor sales.

 

[rfkuehn]

My sense is the product plan went off the rails, with COVID being one factor.

Accomplished prior CEO was shown the door without punch and pie, with an outsider-successor.

And Henrick was exiled to the Office of Sustainability in the basement, with or without red stapler.

Speculating Geely hasn’t been pleased.

 

[02s80]

I wonder how they want to get to 50% BEV by 2025, or even 2026, if the EX60 isn't in full production by January 2025 (or 26).

Volvo will sell around 50k BEVs this year. XC40 & C40 might get you to 100K in 3 years. EX30 might get another 30k. EX90 another 100k (likely less).

50% of 800k would mean 400k BEVs sold. I believe it was stated last year, that the goal for mid-decade is 1.2 million. 600k BEVs.

They won't. I don't know about 2030 but Volvo is not going to get to 50 percent BEV by 2025. We can try to guess percentage. Will they get to 25 percent? 230K of 1,000,000 won't get them there.

 

[02s80]

My sense is the product plan went off the rails, with COVID being one factor.

Accomplished prior CEO was shown the door without punch and pie, with an outsider-successor.

And Henrick was exiled to the Office of Sustainability in the basement, with or without red stapler.

Speculating Geely hasn’t been pleased.

Don't know why you think Geely isn't pleased. Volvo seems to be performing well. It's hard to ramp up BEVs. They're expensive to make. Henrick's style and priorities may not be as completely in line with others and that may be behind Green not being as much out in front. Volvo's shakeups may have come from within and shakeups happen in companies.

 

[02s80]

I like what Polestar is doing but I'm not agreeing with the Roadster that much. It's a niche, low-volume car. Even the Polestar 5 is a bit of a niche because of its cost. The Polestar 2 and 4 and then the 3 will be the big sellers for Polestar. And the Polestar 2 is based on the 2019 architecture of the XC40. It's an aging one and not as advanced as the SPA2 or SEA platforms. So I hope Polestar's priority is to replace the Polestar 2 with the Polestar 7 on a new or at least modern BEV platform and then update it to the Polestar 3's style. The interior of the Polestar 2 isn't airy and has the big center console. I do think they should stick with the styling, just evolve it some to match the rest of the Polestar lineup.

But Polestar's information is clearer and more thorough than Volvo's. Their presentation for the 3 was way better in that they had a few cars on display and Volvo put only one on display for the EX90. So Volvo needs to up their marketing. Volvo is taking bold steps, like putting in that Lidar bump and moving away from leather. So they need to have the strong marketing and marketing face to convince customers the new direction is a good one. Some aren't crazy about the changes in the EX90, even on this forum.

 

[02s80]

Well I figured most wouldn’t interpret that literally. Was suggesting some mainstream 2-3 door models in the lineup.

The thing is, you keep going back to a decade old concepts. That's last gen and last gen's cars upgraded Volvo and such. But Volvo is now evolving into a different style based on the Concept Recharge while Polestar is based on the Precept and both Volvo and Polestar use a lot of the same elements in their designs. There are new realities and coupes and even wagons aren't going to be the volume cars Volvo or Polestar would need. Coupes are now SUV coupes, which is what Polestars are at least styled as and wagons, well, crossover/SUVs are replacing them in many ways. Sedans are still viable if they're smaller and affordable.

Still, the concepts that Volvo or Polestar are going to be based on are the Concept Recharge (and I think Volvo should make a new concept) and Polestar the Precept and similar O2 (Polestar 6).

 

[rfkuehn]

Don't know why you think Geely isn't pleased. Volvo seems to be performing well. It's hard to ramp up BEVs. They're expensive to make. Henrick's style and priorities may not be as completely in line with others and that may be behind Green not being as much out in front. Volvo's shakeups may have come from within and shakeups happen in companies.

They won't. I don't know about 2030 but Volvo is not going to get to 50 percent BEV by 2025. We can try to guess percentage. Will they get to 25 percent? 230K of 1,000,000 won't get them there.

Just thinking about what’s not been shared publicly. Beyond the press releases, etc.

You may have answered your own question, at least in part.

 

[Mjoelnir]

I like what Polestar is doing but I'm not agreeing with the Roadster that much. It's a niche, low-volume car. Even the Polestar 5 is a bit of a niche because of its cost. The Polestar 2 and 4 and then the 3 will be the big sellers for Polestar.

It seems to me that these niche cars are part of the strategy, and even the 1 was. Imagine Polestar without these cars: With the 2 alone, they could never have ramped up their image as it already is today. People I know start talking about the Precept when they hear Polestar, even if they can't afford it. I even like the idea of Polestar offering Porsche-like cars, but then also affordable cars for everyone. It's like "I love this brand and I'm even able to buy one".

 

[Mjoelnir]

And the Polestar 2 is based on the 2019 architecture of the XC40. It's an aging one and not as advanced as the SPA2 or SEA platforms. So I hope Polestar's priority is to replace the Polestar 2 with the Polestar 7 on a new or at least modern BEV platform and then update it to the Polestar 3's style.

There might already be something going on. After the XC40 and C40 have received larger battery packs and an overhauled drivetrain (even with rear wheel drive instead of front wheel drive for the single-motor variants), it's a question of time until the Polestar 2 gets the same changes.

Electric Volvo XC40 and C40 Recharge going REAR-Wheel Drive with bigger battery too - Polestar 2 to follow? | Cars UK

There are already prototypes of a facelifted Polestar 2 being driven around:

Polestar 2 Erlkönig: Dezentes Facelift für den Elektro-Schweden | AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT (auto-motor-und-sport.de)

 

[rfkuehn]

On 07/13/22 Volvo applied for the following designations to be trademarked with the EUIPO

• EX30, EX40, EX60, EX90
• ES40, ES60, ES90
• EV40, EV60, EV90
• EC40
• EXC40, EXC60, EXC90

On the other hand, I believe what TurboJonte said is very likely what's going to happen. That what we see in the patent drawings is the big refresh of the XC90II, based on the (updated) SPA1 plattform, built in Torslanda, with (updated) PHEV drivetrains, to be built until 2030, as announced previously by Volvo.

This guy has good perspective w/out being a fanboy. He notes Toyota has objected to the Lexus-ish 'ES' designations at ~1:25:
View attachment 174133

(If I was on staff at Volvo, I would have objected as well, too much Lexus. Few care about sedans anyways, so maybe it just doesn't matter how they name them?)

I picked up a random rumor that Volvo is considering rebranding XC90 as X90, perhaps to deconflict w/ EXC90 for V546?

I'd agree that EX90 is the upper limit of what XC90 refresh would look like. But that's still much more than was done for its MY20 refresh, it didn't even catch up to S90/V90 (and 2013-14 concept cars) on certain design cues that I won't drone on again about here (you're welcome).

I've got a hunch that SPA1 and SPA2 are very much alike. But at some point SPA2 was deemed incompatible w/ PHEV, and/or would have needed a 3rd skateboard design to make it work. That blew up the business case, leading to ICE canx on SPA2 and more life for SPA1 PHEV and MH.

I'll be curious to see if just PHEV XC90 & S90 get the refresh, or if MH is included. One thought is that both get similar interior rework, but only PHEV gets EX90-ish exterior. Perhaps Lynk 09 has some clues on what to expect?

Thinking about the trademark and XC90 refresh threads a bit more -

Perhaps XC90 gets the same interior refresh across the range - MH + PHEV (perhaps triangulating w/ other current SPA 90s and Lynk 09?). But only PHEV gets some of the EX90's sheetmetal & other exterior cues, mashed onto SPA1. Then Volvo rolls out the 'EXC90' trademark for PHEV, inserted on stage in-between refreshed XC90 and coming-in-2024 EX90:

XC90 - EXC90 - EX90. Then the same thing happens for XC60 in a few years: XC60 - EXC60 - EX60. Then the XCs and EXCs continue until ~2030.

This logic breaks when applied to S90 PHEV though - 'ESxx' would be desirable for EV sedans, not PHEV. Plus the issue of Lexus apparently being opposed to the 'ESxy' naming.