[02s80]

Don't like what I'm reading. Don't love the concept car. What happened to the ultra-chic and sophisticated car that Volvo showed as a mockup to dealers? The concept car's back is sloping with a small window. The concept car looks nowhere near as good as the Concept coupe, the Concept 40s and such. The interior doesn't do much for me, at least as shown. I'm underwhelmed. And Volvo is going to go with the current s60 until 2026? That's too long and the car will be dated in 2023/2024. Volvo isn't Tesla and I'm not sure a lot of people will buy electric Volvos.

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if Volvo will survive this strategy. Hope I'm wrong. And I'm not sure what Polestar is about, either and how it is so different from Volvo.

 

[02s80]

So thoughts about the concept vs Polestar Precept?

The interiors are quite similar, some differences in the exterior.

Overall, I like the look of the concept more than current XC90 but less than the Precept.

Well, one's an SUV of a size that's hard to determine and the other is a sedan or sedanish looking vehicle that's probably longer than the s90. The Precept interior pics looked more detailed and showed more contrast. But the production doors will be conventional and probably with frames. Some interior aspects will be more conventional with both production vehicles.

We haven't really seen the Polestar 3. It may slope more and may not have the near vertical back the Concept Recharge has. The vertical but rounded back is kind of bold. I'm having trouble picturing the size and height of the vehicle. I also can't figure out the interior. Where are the arm rests on the doors? I guess to me the car is going toward Tesla too much. Maybe the finished production car will have more of a Volvo personality to it. I sure hope so.

I don't really understand what Polestar is supposed to be, now. Both Volvo and Polestar are electric and share platforms and obviously designers. I guess Polestar is a more performance oriented Volvo with a slightly different style. And not speed limited?

Overall, I wish Volvo had a new gas-modeled xc90 or hybrid at least. How many of these electric Volvos will sell compared to people going with the tried and true current Volvos that will hang on? And these date the current cars quite a bit. To this day, I haven't seen a Polestar 2 on the street. But if Volvo can sell as many cars as Tesla does, more power to them.

 

[02s80]

I just want to know if they will bring a product that can replace my current car, and approximately when I can expect such a product.

I don't know about replacing the V60 but I'm still looking for a new xc90 to be announced this time next year or maybe Fall of next year. When exactly it will be on sale is probably a few months after it is announced. So, actual sales may be 2023 vs. 2022.

But at least Volvo has shown the Concept Recharge and some of it will be in the next-gen Volvos. btw, Polestar put out a youtube video on the process of transforming the Precept into a production car. Someone asked when it will be coming out and they said they aren't announcing that yet.

 

[02s80]

So Polestar is in the process of converting the Precept into a production car. I'm wondering if Volvo will take the same basic platform and make a Volvo version of it. Because the idea of Volvo having a lone sedan that came to market in 2018 going on to 2027, a 9-year run, just isn't that desirable especially if Volvo/Polestar has all these sleek electric vehicles on the market introduced in say, late 2022-2026. And what if the electric vehicles don't sell as well as anticipated or adaption isn't as fast as projected?

I don't know. At any rate, you can see the production Precept beginning to take form in this video. I asked if the Polestar 3 will be introduced next and Polestar said yes, and it is an SUV.

 

[02s80]

I'm not sure we should look into Volvo's history of how long a model ran to predict how long the current SPA cars will go. Especially now, after listening to T.I., it certainly seems he wants to keep Polestar current and I think people at Volvo want to keep a certain contemporary aspect to Volvo as well. I just don't know what Volvo is planning with the SPA cars. If anything maybe they'll change the bodies and interiors and modify them. I don't know. I can't see them going with the xc90 too much longer as it is now (it came out in early 2015). It's very familiar now but it has to compete with newer designs. And it's getting to the point where it needs a redesign. And that's true of the xc60 and will be of the xc40 in just a few years.

 

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My next car is going to be electric, and it's going to be the first car that suits my needs, whether it carries a Volvo badge or not. I've been a Volvo fan since 2012, but apparently, times are changing.

If your next car is going to be electric then you're definitely in the Volvo market because that's where they are going. However, if it isn't an xc90 size and format you may have to wait for it. Or, it may be a Polestar but their choices are more expensive and limited at this time. Of course, keeping your options open for another marque that hits the spot makes sense.

 

[02s80]

I recall intent for SPA was refresh for year 5, redesign after year 7. XC90 & XC60 got theirs on that timeline, MY20 & 22 respectively. So next gen XC90 would be due for MY23, and XC60 for MY25.

But with all the chatter about SPA2 being culled to EV-only, perhaps a 2nd refresh is the most we can expect for them?

I think we've been hearing of an all-new xc90 for over a year now and the perception may be it was delayed due to Covid. Fair enough. I think since xc90 and xc60 are Volvo's biggest sellers, at least in North America, that, not a refresh with the familiar interior and exterior facelifts, but a whole new fresh design is expected. There is some sort of new Volvo SUV coming and Polestar 3 is definitely being introduced, according to Polestar.

Volvo should look at replacing the xc60 for MY24 instead of MY25, IMO. Now, if it is only electric, I think that's just going to send maybe many potential Volvo buyers elsewhere. Volvo can hope for 50 percent of all vehicles they sell by 205 all they want but the market will decide adoption of all-electric vehicles. Volvo has to be careful about letting their current cars get stale. The xc90 derived designs already seem to have "older" digital displays and the 9 inch tablet is small by today's standards. Plus, the Polestar 2 already makes the Volvo designs look middle age (including the Polestar 1) and adding a Polestar 3 next year and whatever Volvo comes out with will make Volvo obsolete itself (since they are next-gen designs). So, just mere refreshes doesn't seem like a recipe for big sales to me for Volvo. And even if they do keep a good amount of their customers in the refreshed SPAs (classic ICE or hybrid refreshed current Volvos), that's not moving them toward their future vehicles.

 

[02s80]

Yes, I get your point. From a corporate point of view, Volvo's strategy is surely good. But I'm not a Volvo shareholder, but a Volvo customer and (yet) fan. VW showed their ID concepts early, so everyone knew there would be a Golf-like car, a larger SUV and a van (and their future ICU cars are known as well). Mercedes showed their own planned electric cars, and everyone knows what ICU cars will come in the next years. At Volvo however, it's not clear what the future products will be and if they are worth waiting for. And that goes for electric as well as for ICU cars. If you're a Volvo fan and are okay with buying any new Volvo, then it's fine. If you plan to replace your current car with a new car that is about the same size and offers about the same space, then you're lost.

Polestar is actually a lot clearer than Volvo. They have no ICE legacy so they'll have the Polestar 3 out next year, it's an SUV type vehicle about 5 meters long. After that, the Precept, the large sedan will follow and details of its production schedule have yet to be finalized.

Volvo talked of two skateboards and such and now say they have a great pure electric platform and introduced a concept car. But they also showed us a bunch of silhouettes and we're trying to guess what they are and if they still apply. Then there's a whole new naming convention suggested. So, I agree. Volvo is not clear on when the next xc90 replacement is coming out and the form it takes. And that's a problem because it's a major seller for Volvo. Then there's the talk of an xc100 or something like it flagship. When is that coming out? The xc90 leads the way and there is a lot of uncertainty of what form it'll take and still no announced schedule of when it will be introduced to the market.

 

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That's my problem. The electric model isn't proven and Volvo's rep is on their very successful SPA platform yet Volvo wants to leap into the future with an unannounced electric model. That's not sound. Sorry. Every manufacturer needs a transition and a proof of concept. The SPA2 sounds scrapped unless this plan is an idea rather than something being executed. But it sounds like it's what they'll execute going forward. None of Volvo's electric only cars are their major sellers, and that includes Polestar's offering. Too early to scrap a next-gen hybrid platform. I still see Volvo losing customers with this strategy where they would have kept and transitioned customers with the old strategy. The SPAs will get long in the tooth and the electrics will be for the early to middle adoption market only.

 

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All Polestars (after P!1) will be all-electric with the P3 built on an all-electric platform (SEA, right?). I have to think it is the same platform as the XC90-sized successor and will be stretched to make the xc100 (or whatever Volvo decides to call it). So Volvo seems to have the platform for the all-electric P3. Polestar says P3 is being announced in 2022.

S and Vs probably won't see any updates however since the Precept is being made into a production car, it could be the electric only sedan for Volvo too. Just the Precept sedan Volvo-fied.

I agree. Volvos two most important vehicles are the xc90, which we're trying to figure out the next version of after Henrik Green's phantom remark, and what form it'll take whenever it's introduced. And then the xc60. Those are Volvo's two biggest sellers (in North America).

 

[02s80]

dup

 

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The thought occurred to me that the next generation XC90, and anything else based on the SP2 platform, may not look much if anything like the Recharge Concept. The proportions of that car are clearly designed for an electric only platform. The SPA2 will have ICE versions available, even if the floor will be different on the electric version versus the ICE.

If there is a new xc90, I think it'll have the new Thors hammer headlights and yeah, a different body than the Concept Recharge. I think aspects of the interior will be the same, but there won't be as much room in the floor.

We just don't know right now if there will be an SPA2 as described or if Henrik Green has his own vision vs. what will really happen. The SPA2 will be hybrids if there is an SPA2 and the SEA will be the Concept vehicle and Polestar 3.

 

[02s80]

I just can't see the market responding to Volvo replaces the XC90 with it's all electric "Thor 1." Those that leased theirs looking for the all-new model will say Hello Audi, BMW, Genesis, Acura, or whatever. Yeah, some might go for the all-electric but a car so important to Volvo not getting an at least a PHEV all-new version, I just can't see that working for Volvo. I hope I'm very wrong about this. Nothing Volvo is saying recently points to a hybrid SPA2 Volvo.

 

[02s80]

Another question I have is does the Polestar 3 compete with the next xc90 size Volvo BEV? We already have the Polestar 2 and the XC40 Recharge. They cost about the same but the P2 is a sedan and the xc40 is a small SUV. But the Polestar 3 we know is 5 meters or so and that's the xc90's size. Will they cost the same as well or within 5 grand of each other? Won't they look fairly similar at least in silhouette? I guess they'll both have 3 row options, or maybe just the Volvo. Polestar says the Polestar 3 is out next year for sure. Volvo is not really saying anything other than showing covered shapes then an SUVish concept and that they changed gears and whenever their new vehicle comes out, it's 1.0, a child, and an EV.

 

[02s80]

While that may throw some customers who prefer ICE technology to other brands, it could gain Volvo whole new legion of customers who are in a waiting line for Tesla.

So, it all depends on how big the new legion is vs. not only the older customer repeat-Volvo customers but those that bought the current SPA Volvos due to their style and refinement. I also find Tesla owners and fans to be something of a cult, though it seems they are losing market share in EVs. Competing with Tesla is tricky vs. other "normal" brands.

My argument is it is better to provide the option of both the EV and the hybrids to maximize your customer base at this time period (2022-2023). Seems too early for just an EV "large" SUV but it is time for an all-new "XC90." I do look forward to it.

 

[02s80]

Well, luxury Bentleys and Rolls Royces have names. Porsches have names. Mercedes, BMW, Audi don't. Lux Japanese cars don't. Genesis has letter/numbers as well. We'll see. The thing is, the bigger the number, usually the bigger the vehicle and prestige. With names is more difficult to differentiate.

 

[02s80]

Where is proof of market placement? Proof of sales? I've read that Polestar did not sell one single Polestar 2 one month this year in the USA.

How many xc40 pure electrics were sold vs. electrified vs. ICE?

It boils down to timing. Volvo right now does not right now have a product to prove its efficiency and is very competitive in the EV market nor do they have sales at Polestar and Volvo for electric only to just flat out obsolete their successful xc90/xc60 in the North American market and go full-hog into EVs to take on the growing competition from Korea, Europe and the USA. I know we're talking next generation but they're making their reputation with current products.

No Volvos or Polestars are in this list.

12 Bestselling Electric Vehicles of 2021

One Tesla on this list outsold popular models like the Honda Pilot, Mazda CX-5, and Chevrolet Equinox.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[02s80]

I've long suspected that XC90 on SPA actually reflects some design elements from the true 2nd gen on P3 that was canx by Ford. Note how things like headlights and dashboard don't match 2013-14 concept cars and all other SPAs.

So now I wonder if next gen XC90 might reflect some of the originally-intended SPA2 design elements, but incorporated backwards onto SPA.

Well, do you need a new platform for a redesign?

Let's look at Mercedes. They have a new S-class out and a new C-class. The exteriors are subtly different and the interiors are quite different. Now the E has to catch up to the others and is the "old" design. But, Mercedes also has an all-electric EQS. This one seems to be a pure electric platform and I don't think it is a different floor than the S but a different platform. I don't know if the new S out and the new C are just modified versions of existing platforms or new platforms. At any rate, Mercedes has their transition vehicles that their traditional buyers can get along with an electric version of their flagship sedan for early adopters. I think a EQC and EQE may follow.

Volvo's flagship now is its xc90. Volvo's lack of real information is now frustrating. All-new design XC90 or not next year? We get it they're going to electrification, but are we going to see a revised exterior and a basically new interior or is the xc90 going to just refresh with pretty much the same exterior/interior? That's the question that isn't answered. Neither is what will be the new Volvo introduced and when. We're guessing it's a new xc90 sized vehicle with a new name based on Volvo's latest information. And it's a bit cryptic. Cryptic isn't good.

Whether you agree or not with just the electric all-new designed XC90 replacement, and I don't, it would be nice to know sometime soon exactly what Volvo is doing.

 

[02s80]

That's a huge gamble. Mercedes strategy is better IMO. Volvo depending on electric cars only in 2022, I don't think it's going to fly. There's but so long the current xc90 and SPA cars can go before they look dated. If the all-electrics have underwhelming sales in the next 3 years, then what does Volvo do?

 

[02s80]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking w/ idea that SPA2 for ICE could be one and done for next gen XC90. And maybe that's really just SPA+2", maybe enough to expand/relocate PHEV battery?

But that sunk cost aside (and next XC90 being near completion/launch), perhaps all other future ICE that might/would have gone onto SPA2 are canx? Maybe S, V, & V/CC were never going to go SPA2 due to low #'s, so only future of XC60 is in question?

SPA is a flexible platform and all Volvo would have to do is build a body on top and tweak the suspension and a few bits for a new XC60 or even s60 if that's in their plans. I think it's the platform development and retooling that costs the most.