[AvocadoFarm]

I don't quite get this. A PHEV only makes sense if you are able to plug it in while you don't use it. If you have the ability to plug it in in your garage, why not buy a BEV rightaway? This logical error won't go away if the battery in a PHEV is larger. The only advantage I see for PHEVs over BEVs is that refuelling on a longer trip takes a couple minutes less than recharging would.

Depends on your driving pattern. 95% of our trips are under 20 miles round-trip and we can plug in at home. Yes, we live in a medium-sized town but when we go to the "big city" or further rural destinations we either cannot recharge or don't wish to deal with recharging to get home. (Is there a BEV that fully recharges in seven minutes, assuming it's not already occupied? It takes five minutes to refill the gas tank on a PHEV.) With our driving pattern a PHEV will save a lot of gasoline. That wouldn't be true for a lot of drivers, though.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

Definitely not!

As my Chief Marketing Officer wife says, if you don't "get" an ad, it means it wasn't meant for you. You have been improperly exposed to the ad, i.e., the targeting wasn't done right. And the problem with improper targeting is the kind of head-scratching about the brand we're doing here.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

Range, infrastructure, charging time... Day to day, these things aren't an issue. But if you want to take a road trip, they matter. There were quite a few articles a few months back about the future of Volvo's batteries. I think that we'll see big changes starting with the XC90 replacement.

There are currently EV's that have sufficient range to handle long-distance trips IF the routing happens to be supported by sufficient, available, and working fast chargers...AND their car has an excellent "charging curve". Some cars (expensive ones) can now charge to 80% in 20-30 minutes (say the manufacturers). That's the direction the technology is going. You can drive for four hours, stop for 30 minutes to charge and grab a bite and get another 3 hours of range. The range limitation becomes a problem when heading off the interstates and into the hinterlands where certainly there's no DC charging. If you watch Out of Spec road trip reviews for EV's, you realize that EV road tripping with newer batteries is very doable and will get better...if you have the $$$ to buy the car.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

Good coverage of the upgraded PHEV battery & ERAD.

Great upgrades to an already very good car but, like Kyle, I'm disappointed that Volvo did not upgrade the onboard charger from the current 3.6 amps with the larger capacity battery.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

The current one is not 3.6amps. It is 240V/16A. I am fine to let it charge at night for 5-6 hours, 0-6am, no problem. If you charge at work maybe you want it done sooner. But it is not an issue if you get only 10miles not 20 miles range from free charger at work. It is free, no complaint.

I meant to say 3.6 kW charger, not 3.6 amp. I'm not an engineer, but I understand that the onboard charger is the limitation for charging speed with a L2 AC charger. Is that not right?

 

[AvocadoFarm]

Yes true. The most powerful house outlet is NEMA 14-50 eg 240V/50AMP. It is of course better if the car can do 40amp charging on it.

Thanks, that's helpful info.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

I did terribly in my EE classes many years ago...

Does this mean that the car won't charge any better on a public, super-duper charger-whatever than it will in my garage?
How do Volvo's EVs compare re: charging limitations? Eager to better understand something that I don't understand at all.

I've already exposed my ignorance here re: the workings of the charging system, but based on what I've read you are basically correct if your garage is equipped with a Level 2 charger (240 volt, 40 amps). That's the same as a public charger. The T8 can't be charged with a direct current "fast charger". Ok, now someone who actually knows what they're talking about can please give us the right answer...

 

[AvocadoFarm]

This is why I'm waiting a few years to buy one. They'll be getting a lot better in the not too distant future. Volvo and Polestar have a lot coming. The Polestar 4 looks very interesting to me, and I'll be interested in what Volvo will be doing around that size also.

This video is an example of what's possible today in the real world for EV range and charging. As I have said earlier, to have this experience you must have deep pockets and an adequate fast charging infrastructure. Here is an Audi E-Tron GT, a car with 225 mile range being charged from empty to full. This video reveals the real capability you want to look for in your EV, and it's not just the range number. Understanding a car's charging curve on a DC fast charger tells you how a practical road-tripper it will be.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

I’m looking forward to earnings call on Fri. Wonder if appointment of a first-time CEO with no auto experience coming from a coffee mug company might come up? It just seems off.

Agree. Will you be listening to the call? If so, please report back.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

Volvo originally promoted the fact their batteries had the capability to have individual cells replaced. During their tech event I asked the question, in response to news of a sealed for life and structural battery, of how this aligns with long service life, ease of servicing and the previously promoted ability to remove individual cells if they became faulty. The answer from Volvo's head of batteries (or equivalent job title on the Tech day), was that the warranty data doesn't align with a need even now to make it necessary to be able to replace individual cells. I wonder if the structural battery therefore also goes in from the inside of the car rather than bolting onto the underside. Or if it's the same installation from underneath but the casing is now going to be receiving stress etc as part of the bodyshell structure etc. Might it be possible to remove it without needing the shell in a jig or support? Or will the shell hold itself ok statically, It's just that, maybe, the shell relies on the battery case being present to absorb shock loads during dynamic use?

I'm still not convinced that sealing the battery into the vehicle is necessarily a wise move.

I can't locate the article now, but I recently read (if I recall correctly) that BMW has stated that they have not had a single i3 battery replacement under warranty since launch. Perhaps battery premature battery failure (versus natural decrease in capacity) isn't an issue. Anyone else see this statement?

 

[AvocadoFarm]

That may well be true, but is of little consolation to buyers who intend to keep their battery powered vehicles well past the warranty period. Almost sounds like leasing or buying extended warranties is the only protection a consumer will have.

Yeah, I definitely won't keep my T8 beyond the 100k battery warranty!

 

[AvocadoFarm]

Sure. Key is to watch how any of these perform whenever a test is modified or upgraded. Most of the times this happened, guess which brand has never been caught with its pants down? A lot of manufacturers build their cars so they pass tests and gets stars, not necessarily with the users in mind..

Check out how the 13 years old XC90 gen 1 aced the small overlap(25%), while many of the totally new platforms from Audi, Mercedes, VW, etc were getting the abysmal marks. Or a few years ago when they decided to also apply the small overlap test on passenger side, same thing happened. With many cars having small overlap structure only on driver side, which was previously the only part on testing.... Oh sorry... Looks like passenger side folks got the short straw with manufacturers...

So far, Volvo has remained ahead, and most changes to the testing methods continue to highlight that they have car safety truly as a core defining principle, not just a star gathering mean. Others manufacturers certainly have it to and do not compromise. But I am pretty sure NONE go to the same extent to test and develop new means of safety. Most are likely fine only getting on the wagon when it comes by.

While how a car performs in a crash is obviously very important, how a car performs in avoiding or lessening the impact of a crash is a huge factor in safety which a lot of people pay no attention to. The NSTA and EU counterpart do not test for this but I would bet Volvo would top the list in that regard.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

800V EV at 800V charge station means faster charging, shorter waiting. Very useful in long trips.
It should be the trend in future. Lotus Eletre price is similar, and first production car has rolled out factory. Of course it looks like different style and doesn't have 25 speakers, MEMS headlights. But it has LiDAR also.

One thing I have learned about owning an EV: charging speed is MUCH more important than having an impressive range. First time EV buyers don't understand that, which makes sense because range is what auto makers advertise. We really don't need bigger, heavier batteries, we need a fast charging capability and the infrastructure to support it.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

I’ve read the charger upgrade lands across the range for model year 2024.

I won't buy another Volvo with a 3.xkw charger. If the 6.6kw is actually spec'd in the 2024 I'll be able to wait for it. If not, my $ will likely go elsewhere. A XC60 or 90 with ~34 miles of range and being able to add 5 or 6 miles per hour of charging (I'm basing that on doubling my current 3 miles per hour on household 120v) would mean I would need to buy very, very little gas with our driving pattern.

 

[AvocadoFarm]

I've noticed the trend of lower kW chargers on plug in hybrids. Not sure why. I guess the presumption is they don't need the rapid charging capability as they have an engine and so there isn't the need to make sure they can rapidly charge as the battery isn't the only means of propulsion. As PHEVs get larger batteries and greater range (Geely is pushing long range PHEVs as a product now) this seems to swing the need back again for PHEVs to be able to rapid charge to cater to the greatness EV-ness of the product.

I believe it was in an Out of Spec Youtube video featuring the then-new 2022 XC60 Extended Range that an engineer from Volvo made a comment about their battery strategy that may give some insight into their use of lower kW chargers. Basically he said that the idea is to provide enough range with an overnight charge to commute to work where you "recharge" the car and then drive home. I've read that the current spec 3.6 kW charger on U.S. household 110/120v, 15/20A current will charge the ER battery in 8 hours or less, certainly fast enough for "overnight". He didn't say anything about the charger, but I can see why the first model years had a low kW charger as they learned about the battery characteristics and longevity. Now, I can't help but wonder if a faster charger portends a larger capacity battery in the 2025 PHEV models? That would be awesome.