[VolvoFaRmeR]

I think this is the point where Tesla comes into play. It's a new enterprise with its own principles, manufacturing methods and cost structure. A lot of their R&E goes into lowering costs. So if they manage to sell their cars significantly cheaper than their competitors, the average BEV prices will drop.

It seems to me that Volvo lost a huge opportunity. Of course, their one-ICE-strategy was courageous and right, but then they bet big on PHEV instead of BEV. They missed the opportunity to be ahead of the competition by building lots of BEVs. Now they are again just an average car manufacturer because the competition has just as many or even more BEVs in their portfolio. And that's not going to improve during the next two years where they won't even release any new vehicles. Yes, they can advertise on fighting climate change and blah blah, but they aren't exactly forerunners in that area. They're rather pretending to be.

I guess you will be pretty surprised then when SPA II EVs launch and kick the competition in the teeth. Sure, there will be lots of other brand EVs, but few will offer the performance Volvo will offer. They will not be launching "run of the mill" EV tech, it's gonna be industry leading. Those in the know are aware that what is coming is gonna blow people away.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

You can thank Covid for causing unforeseen and terrible delays….: it really sucks

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Volvo's future is so uncertain that there's not even a reason to stay Volvo fan.

I sure want to push back on that comment. Volvo has laid out of the the most precise, detailed roadmap of their future cars publicly I'm not sure I can even think of another company as forthcoming as Volvo. Volvo has known exactly what it's doing in the future for years now. Their vision was stated years ago, and their product rollout is following their announced schedule more closely than anyone. The XC90 EV replacement is only pushed back by months, not even a full year. Considering Covid and the micro chip shortage, they have to be one of the few staying on course. We know what's being built, where it's being built, and in just weeks what batteries will be used and what we can expect. Few companies have EVER been so transparent as to what their future is going to look like than Volvo. While others have delayed or been all wishy-washy on their transition to EVs, Volvo has laid it all out for use. How is their future uncertain? they are so far ahead of the curve than any other luxury brand in the EV race their future is a guaranteed success. They have tremendous momentum with their current offerings, and you are about to see what billions and billions of dollars of EV research gets you......moderately priced EVs with exceptional style, safety and range that will leave other brands looking pretty foolish. I have ZERO interest in an EV for me, and yet I can see Volvo is about to shake up the industry. They are small enough to be nimble and rapidly adapt with almost an endless amount of money to spend on product development. Other brands are large, clumsy and struggling to finically make EVs work. Not Volvo.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Well let me end the mystery. Within 12 months Volvo will have a three row 7 seat suv slightly larger than the current XC90 in both hybrid and EV versions in customers hands on the road. Covid has made the exact date unknown along with the chip shortage. Don’t blame Volvo for that. They haven’t releases date as to not be accurate for customers. When they know, you will know. Why do people say they don’t know this? Dealers have know this for a year now and seen the production vehicle.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Yes, I get your point. From a corporate point of view, Volvo's strategy is surely good. But I'm not a Volvo shareholder, but a Volvo customer and (yet) fan. VW showed their ID concepts early, so everyone knew there would be a Golf-like car, a larger SUV and a van (and their future ICU cars are known as well). Mercedes showed their own planned electric cars, and everyone knows what ICU cars will come in the next years. At Volvo however, it's not clear what the future products will be and if they are worth waiting for. And that goes for electric as well as for ICU cars. If you're a Volvo fan and are okay with buying any new Volvo, then it's fine. If you plan to replace your current car with a new car that is about the same size and offers about the same space, then you're lost.

I don't understand. VW has been less clear as to what they are making than Volvo. VW just this week announced they are building a large suv EV for the first time. Volvo announced that years ago. Some of the announced plans from Benz snd VW and BMW a year ago now are not happening, so what's the benefit of telling customers what you're going to do when you're not sure you will and then you change your mind

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Hehe, and from an engineering perspective I thought the center tunnel battery placement (known limited battery size constraint) was a brilliant, low risk idea to easily switch from hybrid (shaftless tunnel) to non-hybrid (shaft in tunnel) configs. TETO

I'm surprised the competitors at the time (2013-2017) with similar battery sizes and electric axles didn't do the same and opted instead to impact rear storage space or passenger space. (Volvo patent maybe?)

I agree....this was a brilliant move by Volvo and allowed them to offer a product with various configurations at a low cost that made that even possible. There isn't another brand that offered their entire lineup as hybrid.....literally every car, and every SUV but the XC40. Seems like a smart move, and I think the next generation is going to offer some VERY big surprises to the industry.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Sounds like you know something the public doesn't know yet!
No worries. Yeah, the skateboard battery / structure design is the BEV standard so when I hear/read "VERY big surprises to the industry" it makes me think of "next generation" tech like (but not limited to) solid state electric batteries, structural batteries, fully cast car structure (ie Tesla's gigapress), or etc, but definitely not autonomous driving (good luck with national / state regulations just by itself nevermind the technical challenges).

Yes, if you know the right people you get the inside track. We do know lidar will significantly change auto driving, and the battery integration will offer some unique solutions to the industry. There also will only be one sedan in the future.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

I hope it's the S90! ????

I really hope.

Big cars are dead. S60 is likely where they will stay, that's always the demographic that sells way more sedans. Who knows, maybe we will get something in-between, like a stretched S60.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Out of curiosity, is there any idea of where Volvo is headed with their wagons for the future?

Yes, dealers were shown the final product. Imagine something that’s a little taller than a wagon but not as tall as an SUV…..it’s a hybrid type of design. I think there will be a big differentiation in the lineup between haulers that have 5 seats or a 3rd row as well. Sounds like it’s a little more like the teaser show car we saw at Volvos big press day

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Dealers also saw renderings of the next S60. My friend said that, while not the volume seller, this is probably the most exciting/sporty product they have show and it was awesome. He said the front end is dramatic and looks so cool, easily the "sportiest" Volvo product ever made.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

So much information/rumors about new models, but one the other hand we didn’t see (except C40 which is basicly coupe version of XC40) any new model since 2018. I really hope this year will Volvo introduce some new model it is about time and i’m sure it will help to turn sales figures up.

I’m not sure what you say rumors….we have most of the facts now. Dealers have seen the next 5 models, and we have been told what they are. So what’s rumored? We know what’s coming , 100%

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

So many hints, speculation, renderings, tidbits of info from "insiders"... enough already.

When is the EV Embla/90 coming out?

When is “WW3” going to be over, and when will world wide supply of automotive parts returning to normal? Until we know that you will not know when we will see some of these cars. Volvo does not know. You can not launch new models when they can’t even build your current ones.

I’m still so confused about these “insider rumor” comments. Dealers have seen the next 5 products and given the order they will launch in. Exactly how is this a rumor? We know the plan Volvo has for product, exactly how is anyone speculating any longer?

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Agreed. But starting to wonder if Volvo erred by not leading with its SPA2 two-row, akin to E-litre and P*3? Had leading with differentiated, three-row “flagship” proven a tougher task?

Covid and now supply shortages have complexity sabotaged their original time line. I don’t think that’s a Volvo error, that’s just bad luck. Kind of like Ford Bronco or Chevy Corvette……people standing in line with money in hand and no ability to make the product. Volvo is in the same boat. Hard to launch a new car or even give a release date when they can’t even determine if and when suppliers can give them enough parts to meet demand. Imagine launching with only a few hundred cars available in America….what would be the point?

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Some of you really let your imaginations run wild.....

NOTHING has changed with product plans, simply world wide parts supply constraints have caused an unavoidable day. Seeing the situation is fluid and changes daily, exactly how should Volvo approach new launches? Right now they are not over promising and under delivering.

The "Volvo enthusiast in the know" haven't been posting much because....nothing has changed. The dealers saw in Miami a 100% accurate, cut in stone product plan, and that has been shared many times. Nothing has changed other than a delay due to supply chain issues.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Do you happen to know if the dealers were shown SPA1.2s in the metal or just a virtual photo essay?

In the metal.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

What has always amazed me with JD power is the rating differences between countries.
As a swedish consumer, which one should i refere too? Germany, UK, US?

In 2019, Volvo was classed 1st among the premium cars in UK and Germany. Almost dead last in the US.
Audi and BMW among the best in the US / among the worst in Europe.
Toyota which has always a great reputation in the US was below average in the UK
etc...

This right here folks is the key on how to understand these "ratings"......same cars, same company, but 137% DIFFERENT results using the same exact cars. Do you really think that is even plausible? They reveal something, but not much. This "reliability" survey considered AAOS glitches EQUALLY as "bad" as an engine or transmission failure. That should tell you right there to not put much stock in this at all.

I have 3 SPA S60s and closing in on 100,000 miles of driving and nothing but piddly warranty claims on really minor stuff. Bottom of the list reliability? Come on.....Chevrolet is 4th, and I own two new Chevrolet pickups. Those trucks, let me tell you, are not even CLOSE to the reliability of my Volvo. One needed a new transmission after less than 5,000 miles and had 8 recalls in the first 6 months of ownership. You have to be naive to believe these ratings. Look at the spread between Acura and Honda.....those products are IDENTICAL in every way but ascetics and yet have completely different ratings. Same type of thing with Cadillac and Chevrolet, same product and polar opposite ratings. Come on...

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

On another front, I'm not so sure Volvo is the safety leader anymore.

Man....I can't disagree more. Volvo is doing things literally no other company is doing on the safety front, and what they are about to unleash with lidar is going to completely change the game. Volvo's structures continue to outperform nearly anything on the market. Don't just look at the star ratings, check the measurement and g force data. The Teslas perform particularly poorly in transferring energy to the occupant, causing a much higher strain on the body.

You say other car companies are doing as good as Volvo now? Well that's nice they caught up to the Volvo platform that is about to be retired.....Volvo's about to unleash the next level of safety.

Show me ONE car company that would be so brave to show video footage of dropping cars from cranes.....twice. Literally the structure barely even changes when dropped a second time. It's amazing. But not a single car company will produce any crash test footage of rollovers, higher speed levels, catastrophic impacts. But Volvo will. What does that tell you?

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

"(value of complex safety tech) ...unless your car has red turn signals, in which case the maker of your car has put you in harm’s way.

(a NHTSA test) ...limited the crash data to cars whose rear blinkers had switched color (from red to orange or vice-versa) in a midcycle face-lift, i.e. without changes to the body or the size and shape of the taillight housing itself. Conclusion: A change from red to orange accounts for a 5.3 percent reduction in rear-end collisions. By comparison, the third brake light mandated in 1986 reduces rear-end collisions by just 4.3 percent. That means switching the color of a turn signal’s bulb is 25 percent more effective than adding an entire additional brake light.

Amber blinkers cost nothing in additional R&D, since almost every other country in the world already requires them. And while upgrading from red turn signals adds anywhere from a few cents to $10 per car, I bet you’d pay ten bucks extra if your $100,000 German luxury car could promise a 1-in-20 reduction in the likelihood of getting rammed from behind.

So as usual, it all comes down to money. This is especially frustrating when “premium” carmakers save a few pennies by using red turn signals (and therefore put their customers in statistically verified danger) at the same time they’re adding expensive things like radar sensors."

Your Turn Signals Are Putting You in Danger (roadandtrack.com)

As discussed a million times......Volvo has a complete reason for not having orange turn signals. In America they are all read taillights to allow for emergency braking to light an increased surface area to grab your attention. Volvo says this outweighs the benefits of the orange turn signal, and the design does not lend to both.

You can argue all day Volvo is wrong if you want.....BUT people never seem to acknowledge there is a REASON Volvo made this as an intentional choice. It has NOTHING to do about saving money. This is not the first time Volvo makes a choice on their own data, not just a single report. Just like Volvo allows leg injuries as a trade off for greater upper torso/vital organ protection. A single crash test doesn't always tell the whole story. Its a great example of how Volvo is a safety leader, not chasing test results but decisions that save lives.

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

Yeah I smiled as I posted that, thinking of you.

And after a million times, I still say that's a false choice. Otherwise where is Volvo's data-driven, global safety campaign to ditch amber turn signals in favor of enlarged red brake lights?

Precisely.

You grossly oversimplify the topic. Tail light design is comprised of color, surface area, shape, brightness, positioning, etc...... Simply changing the color to amber doesn't automatically mean it's safer....period. People keep referring to a single report about orange tail lights, as if it's the Bible of tail light color and the final say. Well......Volvo doesn't think so, and they have explained why.

Volvo I don't think is looking to lobby other car brands to make amber turn signals a thing. Clearly a litany of car brands don't use orange turn signals, and I think that speaks volumes as to why. Why doesn't everyone do it because it's so much safer? Because it's not.

Volvo knows it, and for this reason has been migrating away from it for some time now and moving to all-red emergency warning in it's place (which, in their opinion, is the safer choice....not a false choice.)

 

[VolvoFaRmeR]

No it isn’t. The XC40 EV was engineered in China.

that’s completely false and outright backwards. Sweden designed the recharge cars from the beginning, top to bottom in Europe. While the CMA platform us sold in china under other brands that is not where they were engineered.