[FusionRedXC60]

XC100 is the way to go if you want soft close doors and more luxury stuff.

Power train is pretty much mild hybrid, PHEV, and pure BEV, in different horsepower setup. They are not going to design new ICE engines anyways.

I think safe cage would be no change as it works well.

LiDAR and L4 highway pilot will allow you to take a nap on long trip.

I am also wondering if autonomous parking (eg. L4 in parking lot and garage) will be offered, as Geely will showcase it on an entry SUV this year, maybe next month.

And Android Sensus, google service, of course. Screen probably will get bigger, 10inch for example. And I hope there is a screen for passenger, or some kind of Bluetooh control for media and climate.

Waiting is helpful to find out all details. Since late 2015 I have been waiting for every new model and settled with XC60 T8. Worthwhile for the learning.

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[FusionRedXC60]

Do you think SC factory will push out PHEV T6 along w/ T8? Same powertrain, just "tweaks" to ICE.

And oh, how about return to amber turn signals? There's a certain Euro-elegance to them, and the whole safety thing too. Even the bloody minivan has amber turn signals. Sheesh.

The SC factory may build it but it is up to VCUSA to decide to sell in USA. Since they don't want V60 PHEV T6, I don't think they want to sell XC90 T6 PHEV here. The reason is simple, to sell more higher price T8.

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[FusionRedXC60]

Assuming you can trust the clues in that EV plan image that was released recently, XC100 had a notably different hoodline compared to the others - kind of reminded me of the minivan.

Could it be some kind of genetic cross between XC90 and VW ID Buzz?

Don't know anything about XC100 but I believe they want to be more luxury than today, especially for Asian market where the simplicity of Scandinavian is cool but also not warmly welcomed compared to more decorated luxury interior styles from other manufacturers there.

 

[FusionRedXC60]

Like everywhere else, SC factory is slowed down for covid and also IC chip shortage. MY2022 XC90 was the orignal plan and could be out end of year. But I am not surprised for 6months or more delay of new SPA2 model.

 

[FusionRedXC60]

I interpret the next-generation XC90, S90 and V90 should come with soft-close as an option. Because Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Genesis, Lincoln, Maserati, Cadillac and Lexus all offer it on some of their models (with the first five offering it on all the competitive models). If Volvo wants to add a new feature, this is one of them. And if they truly want to be a luxury competitor, this is necessary as an option.

Will the design and even safety cage and other features really only be evolutionary? My interpretation is it's an all new generation? I would expect big changes similar to the transition of the first generations. Does that mean we should expect the same engines as the current, with mild upgrades? And does that indicate the design will remain similar? I would be happy if the design is evolutionary, as they already look almost perfect.

There is hope for bigger change, especially more cars will be BEV model. Instrument cluster and center console can be simplified more. Body shape cries to be more streamlined. But they are not interested in renovate mild hybrid powertrain for sure.

For SPA generation, the R&D time spanned from 2012 to 2015 at least. They probably didn't spend so much time on SPA2. I don't expect a total redesign.

 

[FusionRedXC60]

T6 PHEV? That's a T8.

You never heard of it?

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/build/v60-hybrid?

 

[FusionRedXC60]

Nope. Didn't realize they were changing the nomenclature yet. But I usually find stuff like that out after it happens because it doesn't mean much to us in service.

They are not changing it. It is T8 PHEV on XC90 Recharge, and T6 PHEV on V90/V60 Recharge in Europe.
Apparently VCUSA only want T8 PHEV for V90/V60 Recharge, not the T6 PHEV version.
Does it save servicing cost at all? Nope, right?

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/build/xc90-hybrid?

 

[FusionRedXC60]

Sedan EV has better range than crossover and SUV. Most EV buyers want sedan for this reason. They can keep one or two sedan/coupe EV models for sure, small S40 and big long range S90. Precept is great but it is different style and price level.

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[FusionRedXC60]

I wonder what S90 would look like if extrapolated from P*2? I just don't think it works w/ battery in the floor, at that scale. Remember the S60 CC? Hm.

2016 Volvo S60 Cross Country Test - Review - Car and Driver

CMA P*2 is not optimized for flat battery in floor. SEA and SPA2 will be better. And P*2 ground clearance is normal, doesn't look like S60CC. And with longer wheel base, you won't feel the floor is raised up by 2 inch.

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[FusionRedXC60]

It is very costly to build a new power train but sell only a small volume. If you want Toyota hybrid, have to get the e-cvt from Toyota too. 8AT won't work that way. The fuel save is also tiny. This is why only Ford did it other than Toyota. And still Ford hybrid Escape doesn't sell much.

 

[FusionRedXC60]

They should show some test car running with LiDAR Highway Pilot. This is really the next innovation they have. SPA2 power train is not much exciting. More battery capacity and HP on ERAD is what I expect.

Bigger AR-HUD will probably become common in a few years too, maybe even with hand gesture recognition.

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[FusionRedXC60]

If your point is that 4x hybrid/EV powertrains don't add up, I agree.

But I do think Volvo shouldn't have bothered w/ MHEV, barely a half-measure. Should have gone standard conventional hybrid instead, even just to save all those restarts in congestion. Just today I was alongside an XC60 in some congestion. I counted about a dozen restarts in 10 min (MHEV won't prevent those). If that was an RX (conventional) hybrid, likely wouldn't have restarted at all.

Start/stop has nothing to do with MHEV and XC60 today doesn't have MHEV power train. It is a plain T5/T6.
You are shooting the wrong target.

Even for this annoying start/stop feature, it is helpful to reduce emission at traffic lights. It is just not possible to be implemented perfectly without human knowledge of the road condition. A wise driver could easily disable it in crawling traffic by swinging the shift stick to manual for just a second.

 

[FusionRedXC60]

So true! I find it very hard to look for a new car in 2021. I mean, who still buys an ICU car today if you have the opportunity to install an electric charger in your garage? And the choice of electric cars is still limited. The 40 Volvos don't have the Volvo feeling inside and thus are far too expensive, and the Polestar 2 would nail it, but as a sedan, it has the wrong form factor. This urges me to look at the competition (Skoda Enyaq or Audi Q4 Sportback for example) since Volvo/Polestar doesn't give a clear perspective of their future. I would love to buy another Volvo, but if they don't offer the right product, then there goes their customer!

Volvo will never make cheap EV like the size and price of Mustang Mach E or model 3. You need to look elsewhere if you expect to buy EV at similar price and size of ICE Volvo today. An EV in size and luxury level of XC90 or XC60 will be more expensive than XC40 P8. On the smaller end, C40 EV is coming next year, another smaller one will come later.

Volvo is saying EV will be half of the production 5 years from now. I don't see how it is possible with the much higher EV price (15K to 20k more than ICE cars) though.

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[FusionRedXC60]

MHEV is simply glorified stop-start with a bit of e-push. Can't move one inch without ICE restart. What's hard to follow there?

Toyota has had more capable hybrid tech since long ago, and seemingly hasn't bothered to backtrack with MHEV 48v. It will be interesting how Lexus TX lands. I think it will blow open the big gap that Volvo has caused itself re: conventional hybrid.

Whether TX offers PHEV is another matter, I suspect not initially. And I will prefer a plug when our shopping time comes in a couple years.

stop-start is just something you can still disable on MHEV car. You tie them up together for no reason. Fuel saving can still come from coasting with the tiny motor, eg, while engine stopped at unnoticeable moments.

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[FusionRedXC60]

Politicians make stupid moves for no reason. HEV only saves 15-20% fuel because that's how much braking energy you could use in all your trips. If they want to see PHEV gets charged more, the only solution is to build more charge stations which are needed for BEVs anyways.

If they want to save fuel for the society, just make it a law to let people work from home unless necessary to commute. This is by far the best way to preserve energy, as shown by the pandemic last year.

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[FusionRedXC60]

How do you think pricing for XC90 SPA2 EV vs. PHEV will compare? What's more costly, 2nd power train or big battery!

Cost is mainly determined by supply and demand of the material and production volume. The actual manufacturing cost is kind of constant once the production pipeline is mature.

In the end, when ICE and transmission volume goes down, they will become costly too. But right now battery still costs a lot. And this won't be reduced easily.

And market price of BEV is another story. Even when the day comes that BEV can be made to same cost and range as ICE vehicles, BEV price will still be higher.

Volvo BEV could be similar price to Volvo PHEV siblings in near term. Price of XC40 BEV and PHEV are good example. XC90 BEV could be like $75-80k price, high enough to scare away even luxury car buyers. It is not possible to sell half of all Volvo cars at such price level. They have to be somehow comparable (about 5k more maybe) to ICE car price to let half Volvo buyers feel compelling to switch to BEV.

It is possible to sell BEV at XC90 dimension at this price level from other brand, like Mustang, but not a Volvo. The new mid-size BEV Zeekr 001 from Geely is about $40-$55k with possible 350-450 miles range and crossover hatchback body.

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[FusionRedXC60]

I don't quite get this. A PHEV only makes sense if you are able to plug it in while you don't use it. If you have the ability to plug it in in your garage, why not buy a BEV rightaway? This logical error won't go away if the battery in a PHEV is larger. The only advantage I see for PHEVs over BEVs is that refuelling on a longer trip takes a couple minutes less than recharging would.

yeh 5 minutes refueling vs 40+ minutes for recharging, and freedom to detour to any countryside road. Sure some people don't mind but not me.

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[FusionRedXC60]

I guess you will be pretty surprised then when SPA II EVs launch and kick the competition in the teeth. Sure, there will be lots of other brand EVs, but few will offer the performance Volvo will offer. They will not be launching "run of the mill" EV tech, it's gonna be industry leading. Those in the know are aware that what is coming is gonna blow people away.

I wish they can surprise me but there is no magic in EV battery capability, range and price world. Nobody could do significantly better unless some in-house breakthrough happens. And Volvo doesn't make battery cells as we all know. Even they get to use the best battery in the world, there is no magic as somebody else are already using it.

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[FusionRedXC60]

Since Volvo's restart in 2013, they have always been late in their schedule. They took themselves a lot of time to develop and test their new cars (which is surely a good thing), so I wouldn't be surprised about such a timeline for the future of today.

What is actually the purpose of Polestar? Everything they do, Volvo does it as well, including electric cars and online purchasing. Even Android is coming to Volvo's infotainment, too. Their visual design is nearly identical, too, and the Polestar 2 would fit well into Volvo's portfolio as an S40. Its performance variant could still be called Polestar (as on every other Volvo). Add a V40, which would have its guaranteed market share in Europe, and be done.

Precept design language will be the new style for Polestar and is very different from Volvo.

 

[FusionRedXC60]

It's not "very". Same Thor's hammer headlights and similar rear lights, same window line (the kink in the back), same hipline. The 3/4 view is very similar to a Volvo. Very different from Volvo are for example Mercedes EQS or Porsche Taycan, but certainly not the Polestar Precept.

If you look at the Polestar 3 again, you see that Polestar's production design is even closer to Volvo. View attachment 126747

This computer graphics could be anything but the real car.

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