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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In our pursuit of making the best FMIC on the market for R's (and all P2's) I'm proud to announce the Snabb Ultimate FMIC - Mark II. What you are about to see is the result of a years worth of research and testing along with a significant financial investment in prototyping, testing and new tooling. We met and exceeded our initial goals so we've very pumped to finally announce the pending arrival of new stock.

Although there have been several revisions to the upper charge pipe revising the bracketry and angles of the bends the main focus of the Mark II kit is the intercooler itself.

What were the goals of the Mark II revisions?

1) Easier installation on S60R's
2) Improved efficiency to handle larger turbos
3) Optimized fitment to maximize core exposure and through grill and bumper valence.

How did we attain all these goals? We scrapped everything and started over from scratch.

To start with we determined that there was no existing core that met out specs for dimensions and cooling capacity so we determined what would be the ideal size and dimensions to use and had a core designed to our specifications. The new core changed the dimensions from (the old) 22"x12"x3" to (the new) 22"x13"x2.75" this would allow us to line up with our existing piping setup, maintain a nearly identical overall surface area while making the intercooler much easier to install and center on all variations of the P2 chassis, as well as allowed us to shift the entire core up 1" to get more surface area above the bumper crash bar.

Next we layed out a high density core with more tubes (19 tubes Vs 13 tubes in the previous version) and optimized, denser cooling fins. The new configuration is optimized to maximize cooling and core volume while minimizing pressure drop. In our testing the pressure drop averaged 1.5psi at 20 pounds of boost.

Finally we designed brand new cast endtanks and added an inlet tank baffle that transistions smoothly from the inlet to the core tube openings to split the air evenly across the massive core.

To mount the intercooler we've added steel insets to the upper threaded studs to eliminate stripping and designed new heavier duty welded lower stabilizing brackets to keep the intercooler in place.








As depicted in the following pictures the intercooler has ample clearance to install.







So what about cooling capacity? I want to preface this part by commenting on the Mark I intercooler..It works really really well. Cruising around town the intercooler would typically keep IAT's close to ambient. When accelerating on the road temperatures the Mark I kept IAT's very low but they did climb gradually over time. Still the improvement in real world conditions, conditions that the majority of us will experience a majority of the time, was remarkable and more than sufficient. Now let's talk about heat soak. First off EVERY intercooler gets heat soaked at some point. Depending on the thermal mass of the intercooler, the density of the fins, design of the endtanks and other factors you can see an intercooler get heat soaked sitting in hot traffic or like the stock intercooler get heat soaked after 1 or 2 pulls through a gear on a hot day. The Stock intercooler is so bad at rejecting heat that even after pulling through WOT in one gear (2nd) it will be pumping out air that is hotter that a fully heat soaked Mark 1 intercooler. You can look at my old graphs and logs from 2014 to see how a stock intercooler performs. Now back to the Mark II. The results of the changes in design are that around town the IAT's are marginally higher but as soon as you start moving air across the intercooler they drop, but this intercooler really shines when you really start to push it hard which is where cooling efficiency matters the most. What this comes down to is that there are always compromises in life. Therefore there are trade-offs that have to be decided on when designing an intercooler. If you make the core denser for example you are increasing it's thermal mass. When this happens it will be slower too heat up and slower to reach the point of heat soak. It's also slower to cool off when there is no air flowing across it. When you have less air moving across a dense core you will have slightly higher outlet temperatures as indicated in the graphs and as stated above (oversimplified but true). However when you start moving larger volumes of air across that core it will reject heat much faster than a less dense core with lower thermal mass making it capable of rejecting more heat.

We logged temperature and pressure pre intercooler and post intercooler and drove the car not on a dyno but on a road where the car get's exposed to real volumes of air moving across it. I've tested the intercoolers on dynos as well and while they perform well it's never as good as it is in the highway and you get a better understanding of how the intercooler can cool charge air under load and in varying conditions when testing on the road. When you compare the Mark II intercooler to the Mark I intercooler you can see that the IAT temps are higher in slow moving traffic and only slightly higher on the highway cruising. However when pushed through repeated WOT runs on back to back testing the Mark II intercooler consistently has lower temps, less temperature fluctuations and because of the baffled endtank design and denser core as soon as you start accelerating and pushing air through it the temperatures they are drop. On the newer tests we've been able to gather more robust information about how the intercooler is performing but in order to try to most accuratley compare Stock VS Mark I VS Mark II I've used the same method of graphing. I also added a graph showing turbo outlet temp VS Mark II IC outlet temp along with a calculation for IC efficiency. Again you should keep in mind that were were not able to do these tests in a controlled testing environment. This is on the road testing and the graphed data is meant to give you an understanding of how the intercooler has changed with the new design and how it performs with on-road testing at WOT.

STOCK INTERCOOLER


SNABB MARK I FMIC


SNABB MARK II FMIC





All that said we've managed to keep the prices the same and we have individual listings for all the intercooler kits below. I hope you're as excited as I am about the new product, I'm happy to answer any questions you have!

http://www.snabb.us/best_volvo_front_mount_intercooler_fmic_kit.html

Also I want to take this opportunity to let everyone know that we developed some cool extra parts this summer, it was so busy however that I didn't get a chance to advertise them so not very many people have been able to take advantage of the options that we have.

I finished the layout for the the recirc and ultimately went with 1.25" recirculation line to easily accommodate anything up to 500 HP builds. The larger 1.25" line will help prevent the turbo flutter (back-pressure) that can ultimately destroy your expensive turbo upgrade. The 1.25" line will vent fast and can accommodate many different brands and variations of BOV's and recirc valves.

We Stock the Synapse Synchronic BOV, Synapse Diverter Valve and the Turbosmart compact Diverter valve. All have 1.25" mounting bosses and 1.25" oultets. I'll go more into the BOV and DV options later.

We designed and manufactured our own 1.25" billet aluminum recir boss that we can TIG to the upper charge pipe and the aluminum section of the intake pipe. Because we make the parts ourselves we can keep the cost down on this. There is still man hours into cutting welding and polishing and you have to be willing to pay a human to do that kind of custom work but we've made it as simple and as cheap as possible to add top-of-the-line recirc options without limiting you to a specific one brand or style like many other companies do. We also stock the bosses so if you want to do your own custom project just email me and we can get you the parts that you need.

I don't have these options listed on the website so if you need something like what's shown below then please email me [email protected] and be patient we're a small shop and sometimes we get buried with work so it can take a couple days sometimes. I hate that but it's a reality until we get bigger and can have full time staff ready to answer emails and phones

Here are some pics of how I've set up the recirculation. This will work for all P2 vehicles and even P80's. The turbosmart BOV's will be coupled with a 1.25" ID silicone to the weld on boss but the synapse valves have their own weld on bosses so they mount very neatly to the pipe, look and sound great.





 

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I like what you all are trying to do here, but having a third of that intercooler blocked by the bumper bar is really going to ruin the efficiency of this unit as that section of the intercooler begins to heat soak and doesn't have the external flow required to cool it back down. This is the kind of issue that isn't revealed by single gear romps that last only 10 seconds or less. Some of us really push our intercoolers for extended periods of time as we drive up mountains that keep our boost high for minutes at a time.

For that reason I'd much rather see you guys develop and sell a couple smaller units that could fit in the upper and lower openings that are tied together by some Y plumbing at each end. When it comes to testing data, it would be nice to see data from longer runs at more difficult outdoor temps like over 80 degrees. With the above time ranges and temps all we are really seeing is the thermal capacity of the mass of aluminum in the intercooler instead of how its actually working as a heat exchanger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I like what you all are trying to do here, but having a third of that intercooler blocked by the bumper bar is really going to ruin the efficiency of this unit as that section of the intercooler begins to heat soak and doesn't have the external flow required to cool it back down. This is the kind of issue that isn't revealed by single gear romps that last only 10 seconds or less. Some of us really push our intercoolers for extended periods of time as we drive up mountains that keep our boost high for minutes at a time.

For that reason I'd much rather see you guys develop and sell a couple smaller units that could fit in the upper and lower openings that are tied together by some Y plumbing at each end. When it comes to testing data, it would be nice to see data from longer runs at more difficult outdoor temps like over 80 degrees. With the above time ranges and temps all we are really seeing is the thermal capacity of the mass of aluminum in the intercooler instead of how its actually working as a heat exchanger.
Hey Stealthy! thanks so much for your post. I understand what you're saying regarding the elevation but I should take this opportunity to clarify a couple things. While we don't live in the rockies, these tests were performed on the steepest extended incline that we have in Ithaca. The total elevation change on the test run is (edit) 700 feet as shown in this Topo map. Additionally the tests were performed on the on ramps of this grade. In the sample shown; two of the pulls are uphill and the middle one is downhill



What I'm showing is just a section of the data on three runs that best correlated to each other -These are groups of 3 back to back runs which are uphill, downhill, uphill in this area of elevation but they were not the entire length of the test. I can graph significatly longer lengths of time but the intercooler doesn't heat up much beyond what is shown in the graphs under any circumstances that I saw in my logging. You can most clearly see the intercooler work as a heat exchanger in the last graph where inlet temps climb 40 degrees but the intercooler outlet temps actually drop and efficiency increases. I could show repeated results from the same run that duplicate those results. Most of my data logs are 3000 data points or over 25 minutes of WOT up and down this hill. So you definitely have a great point that there are harder terrains and I know that yours and many others elevations are steeper and more extended, but these tests were performed on the most challenging road that we had around here (with a 55mph speed limit) My goal was to create a kit that could keep performing under hard abuse and would be sufficient for the very challenging environments. I believe we'd delivered such a kit but I'm 100% on board with continuing to test in different environments as possible! I'll see if I can find logs at higher temperatures or I could most likely arrange some given a little bit of time. It's just that we have a lot of 60 degree days around here and I wanted the tests which started with the stock IC to be done at similar temperatures.

The consideration of the bumper crash bar which is discussed at length on the boards is highly speculative in my opinion because it's not backed up by any data that I've ever seen. If such data exists then I would be interested to see it? I think ultimately it's the data that will show how the intercooler performs.
 

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Will there be an upgrade Kit ?
 

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Good to see you are still hard at work coming up with more refined parts Kristian!

:cool:

I think that even if the crash bar/bumper block part of the IC to air flow, the larger intercoolers act as a heat sink transferring a bunch of heat from air to the core while you are in boost for a 15 or 20 second romp on the throttle, and then cool back off as you drive out of boost 95 percent of the time. 20 seconds of throttle is way, way past legal speeds even in a pretty much stock R.

Even back to back throttle application like at a road course would require pushing the car way harder than 99 percent of owners do to even get to a point where the bigger IC core heat soaks and would also mean tons of other systems on the car would be overheating as well.

In that case all that would be required is a cool down lap in between hot laps.
 

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hey kristian -

love the kit. however checkout quoted me $900 USD shipping to Australia. which is a bit of a deal breaker. :eek:

I'd be better of flying to the states and bringing it back as luggage.

What is the total weight of the fmic?

cheers

Matty
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Will there be an upgrade Kit ?
Sorry can you clarify? If you mean existing customers changing to this intercooler? If anybody wanted to do that it's as simple as changing the intercooler and the upper brackets. Everything else is the same.

Good to see you are still hard at work coming up with more refined parts Kristian!

:cool:

I think that even if the crash bar/bumper block part of the IC to air flow, the larger intercoolers act as a heat sink transferring a bunch of heat from air to the core while you are in boost for a 15 or 20 second romp on the throttle, and then cool back off as you drive out of boost 95 percent of the time. 20 seconds of throttle is way, way past legal speeds even in a pretty much stock R.

Even back to back throttle application like at a road course would require pushing the car way harder than 99 percent of owners do to even get to a point where the bigger IC core heat soaks and would also mean tons of other systems on the car would be overheating as well.

In that case all that would be required is a cool down lap in between hot laps.
Thanks yes. And if you feel the endtank and piping after a pull they are typically ice cold so there is plenty of airflow to remove heat. Another thought In the testing these are steep ramps with the car under full load and the test car was my old Stage 3 S60R with the K24 pushed to it's upper limit. This could perform even better with a larger turbo just because the turbo theoretically won't be pushing air that's as super heated. Although now I'm speculating as I don't have test results for that (yet)

yep , very nice Kristian ! to you and your team :thumbup:
Thanks Dougy, I really appreciate that. It was hard work but fun and worthwhile.

hey kristian -

love the kit. however checkout quoted me $900 USD shipping to Australia. which is a bit of a deal breaker. :eek:

I'd be better of flying to the states and bringing it back as luggage.

What is the total weight of the fmic?

cheers

Matty
That's can't be right I will figure out what's wrong. I'll PM you to get your postal code and get a quote.

Very nice, indeed! :)

But will it be available in BLACK!?

And is it possible to use the stock over engine pipe with this set up?
I can get it annodized gunmetal(for a pretty penny) or We would certainly spray it for you. Interestingly enough It will actually reject heat at idle better painted black. That and pretty much anything else you can imagine is an option. We're happy to customized requests and actually have a lot of custom options that aren't listed on the site some of which I will add to this thread as I have time.
 

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Is there a black friday or chrismas discount soon��?
 

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Can you use the stock charge pipe with this ?
 

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I can get it annodized gunmetal(for a pretty penny) or We would certainly spray it for you. Interestingly enough It will actually reject heat at idle better painted black. That and pretty much anything else you can imagine is an option. We're happy to customized requests and actually have a lot of custom options that aren't listed on the site some of which I will add to this thread as I have time.

Nice, I sendt you an e-mail regarding this.
 

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Canada quote makes it unbearable and unjustified to buy anything in the US states...

For this kit : http://www.snabb.us/Ultimate-BIG-Volvo-Intercooler-Kit-04-05-S60RV70R_p_197.html

I'am being quoted 1400$ including shipping ( canadian dollar ), which is way too high.

I can see that the kit provides many other things that i dont want to upgrade right now, i was thinking of keeping the stock charge pipe and only connecting the upgraded intercooler to my stock pipes with the provided base intercooler piping.

Is this the actual FMIC shown in this thread ? http://www.snabb.us/22x13x275-Front-mount-intercooler_p_161.html

Is there any way to get a better quote for me in this case ?

ty kristian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Can you use the stock charge pipe with this ?
So on the tail end of saying that we can customize the kit unfortunately the answer to this question is I wouldn't recommend it. This kit is designed to completely replace all the factory piping. The Sanbb piping doesn't come up to a point where it will connect nicely to the stock pipe. I know the stock aluminum pipe looks nice but it's actually pretty small at each end. The only way that you could connect it to the factory piping is like this which although not the end of the world it it less than ideal and the piping is getting necked down. The problem with that is that's on the hot side where the air is very hot 95f - 175 f and much less dense than the cold side.

Please see my diagram below. This is one way to get it to connect the the factory piping which clearly is not ideal. Remember that the factory IC and factory replacement IC's all have 2.25" inlet/outlets.

 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Is there a black friday or chrismas discount soon��?
there definitely may be one, I'll be considering that more early this week.

Nice, I sendt you an e-mail regarding this.
OK thanks I'll take a look and reply in pm.

Canada quote makes it unbearable and unjustified to buy anything in the US states...

For this kit : http://www.snabb.us/Ultimate-BIG-Volvo-Intercooler-Kit-04-05-S60RV70R_p_197.html

I'am being quoted 1400$ including shipping ( canadian dollar ), which is way too high.

I can see that the kit provides many other things that i dont want to upgrade right now, i was thinking of keeping the stock charge pipe and only connecting the upgraded intercooler to my stock pipes with the provided base intercooler piping.

Is there any way to get a better quote for me in this case ?

ty kristian.
Let's get in touch via PM so I can get your postal code. As for the charge piping thats' the one caveat. I don't recommend it although it is possible to do. See above. I can sell the intercooler and weld bungs etc separately if anyone wants to make their own piping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Reposted from above. Regarding customization... I want to take this opportunity to let everyone know that we developed some cool extra parts this summer, it was so busy however that I didn't get a chance to advertise them so not very many people have been able to take advantage of the options that we have.

I finished the layout for the the recirc and ultimately went with 1.25" recirculation line to easily accommodate anything up to 500 HP builds. The larger 1.25" line will help prevent the turbo flutter (back-pressure) that can ultimately destroy your expensive turbo upgrade. The 1.25" line will vent fast and can accommodate many different brands and variations of BOV's and recirc valves.

We Stock the Synapse Synchronic BOV, Synapse Diverter Valve and the Turbosmart compact Diverter valve. All have 1.25" mounting bosses and 1.25" oultets. I'll go more into the BOV and DV options later.

We designed and manufactured our own 1.25" billet aluminum recir boss that we can TIG to the upper charge pipe and the aluminum section of the intake pipe. Because we make the parts ourselves we can keep the cost down on this. There is still man hours into cutting welding and polishing and you have to be willing to pay a human to do that kind of custom work but we've made it as simple and as cheap as possible to add top-of-the-line recirc options without limiting you to a specific one brand or style like many other companies do. We also stock the bosses so if you want to do your own custom project just email me and we can get you the parts that you need.

I don't have these options listed on the website so if you need something like what's shown below then please email me [email protected] and be patient we're a small shop and sometimes we get buried with work so it can take a couple days sometimes. I hate that but it's a reality until we get bigger and can have full time staff ready to answer emails and phones

Here are some pics of how I've set up the recirculation. This will work for all P2 vehicles and even P80's. The turbosmart BOV's will be coupled with a 1.25" ID silicone to the weld on boss but the synapse valves have their own weld on bosses so they mount very neatly to the pipe, look and sound great.





 

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would have chosen this over Phuzzy's if it was a symmetrical setup, something about the way the end tanks are arranged I do not like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
would have chosen this over Phuzzy's if it was a symmetrical setup, something about the way the end tanks are arranged I do not like.
Sorry to hear that but we designed it with efficiency and functionality in mind (both in the shorter length of the piping and efficiency of the intercooler for this setup paramount)
 
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