SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alrighty, so the mechanic working on my car was out today, so when he gets back at 8am on Monday I have to have the talk with him about getting a new engine put in the car. As I went to VolvoPartsWebstore.com I saw engine exchanges for between $4600 and $7000, with no delineation between them. Bob Penkhus Volvo service rep told me if I put in a used engine sourced by them and installed by them, it'll get 12-month warranty, if it's a factory rebuilt/certified engine installed by them it'll get a 24 month warranty, and a brand new engine comes with a lifetime warranty.

I found a used engine for sale for $2999 that has only 38k on it, except it doesn't come with a turbocharger/headers stock setup but comes with a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty.

I am kind of at a loss as to what to do. Nothing else on the car needs any work. Thoughts on a course of action here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
I actually think you'll be able to fix your current engine once it's more in the open to inspect. You took the banjo bolt out, correct? Where the treads that came with it aluminum or Helicoil as the dealer claims? It CAN be repaired, re-Helicoiled, Timeserted, welded, etc. It's a bitch to get broken Helicoils out but hey you've got a minimum of $3000 to work with. By any chance did ALL the coils come out or can you see some remaining thread in the block? Now, in any case you are pretty much stuck with an engine R&R & that sucks. If time is an issue throw in a new engine. Then repair yours at your leisure & resell.

You don't say what year or mileage is on your current engine or your long range plans for the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,934 Posts
i dont remember which bolt broke off in your engine, but i was thinking it was exhaust manifold or something, Worst case scenario couldnt you just replace the top end? Get a new head and such, instead of the whole engine? It seems ridiculous to replace the whole thing because of one bolt... but i dont remember your exact scenario.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey guys, so to answer your questions, on the lower half of the block assembly, on the passenger side exhaust side of the block about 4 inches up (just below or just above the block assembly point but way lower than the head, think about an inch away from the crankshaft, I can't remember which it is top or bottom, but I think it's below) the place where the case is assembled, is the passageway for the oil feed line to the turbo. Correct, it is a banjo bolt-crushwasher-feed line-crushwasher-block setup, and when I did it, it about a turn and a half of threads came out of the very end of it, meaning once it was screwed in all the way and came time to snug up, it had nothing to grab onto.

The guys from the dealership said it comes helicoild from the factory. I am guessing that helicoil is bonded to it's respective hole in the block make it ridiculous to remove.

Either way, I'm looking at shelling out a bundle. I found a used engine for 3k with a great warranty and low miles. My current engine had 117k on it, so I figured if it's around 40k on the clock and will be good for 5 years, might as well do that and take the old engine home for parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
I think that's a good way to go.
Heli-coils are generally not bonded but since they are hardened it's really tough (impossible) to drill them out without a milling machine or similar jig. Hand drill isn't going to do it. The method generally used is to pry up the end of the first coil with a fine pick & slowly screw it out with needle nose pliers or similar. There are tools to deal with this also. The problem you have is access & the fact that the broken coils sound like they are a ways down the hole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I think that's a good way to go.
Heli-coils are generally not bonded but since they are hardened it's really tough (impossible) to drill them out without a milling machine or similar jig. Hand drill isn't going to do it. The method generally used is to pry up the end of the first coil with a fine pick & slowly screw it out with needle nose pliers or similar. There are tools to deal with this also. The problem you have is access & the fact that the broken coils sound like they are a ways down the hole.
Yep, so today I pulled the trigger adn got the following stuff:

$3000 - engine with 3 year parts and labor warranty
- Will get a new water pump, all 3 belts. Everything else will be transferred off the old engine since I just put new coils/plugs in there.
~$500 - brand new clutch kit.
~$75 - rear main seal replacement since it's out anyways.

Today I cracked apart the turbo setup, beat the old cartridge out of it (broke the center passageways in the process but no big deal) new balanced catridge is in the mail for $250, should be here in 3-5 days. I disassembled everything and cleaned it all. I cleaned the mating surfaces on all the headers with a wire wheel, so when I get that catridge in, I'll have a brand new turbo ready to give to them to put on the new engine.

So with that being said I have a couple questions, what does ViDA say the proper opening pressure for the wastegate is supposed to be for the B5254T3 engine (which is the 2006 T5's)? I keep reading everywhere ~4.5psi, but I am not sure about that.

Also, there is a circular area with three hex screws holding a cover with inset orings in it down. it's about 1.5" across and seems to be block off the passageways, All of the OEM replacements I see online have the same setup but with a nipple coming off of it, seemingly connecting to nothing, instead of a solid piece of aluminum like mine, anyone know what the difference is? It would make sense if it connected to something, but in no diagram does it connect to anything. Thoughts here? On the bright side, I'll have two more complete header/turbo rebuilds for those that want them in a month or two.

On a side note, I wrote Volvo headquarters asking if this seemed correct, that a singular stripped bolt hole in the block now will cost me a new engine to the tune of $5600, and they responded stating that I should trust their Service Managers to make their decisions based on the technical details of the issues and they backed their decision up. This is in my opinion, crookedness at the highest level - let's build a product we can't fix so you have to buy a new one...sounds like Apple to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
You were basically in the same boat I was in. I bought a 2005 S40 T5 back in June. It was running pretty well, but was using about a quart of oil a month. Finally my one friend suggested I take it in and have it looked at, and they ran a leak down test on the engine. One of the cylinders was at 50% leak, and all the others weren't far behind, the lowest one was at 18%. Thankfully, the used car lot I bought the Volvo from purchases a 6 month power train warranty so I was able to get it for a lot cheaper than otherwise. Their warranty covered $4,000 of it, and then I had to pay another $2,600 for the rest. They replaced the timing belt and spark plugs, etc. The used engine they put in comes with a 1 year warranty on labor, and a lifetime one on the engine itself. Here's to hoping I don't have to replace anything else in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You were basically in the same boat I was in. I bought a 2005 S40 T5 back in June. It was running pretty well, but was using about a quart of oil a month. Finally my one friend suggested I take it in and have it looked at, and they ran a leak down test on the engine. One of the cylinders was at 50% leak, and all the others weren't far behind, the lowest one was at 18%. Thankfully, the used car lot I bought the Volvo from purchases a 6 month power train warranty so I was able to get it for a lot cheaper than otherwise. Their warranty covered $4,000 of it, and then I had to pay another $2,600 for the rest. They replaced the timing belt and spark plugs, etc. The used engine they put in comes with a 1 year warranty on labor, and a lifetime one on the engine itself. Here's to hoping I don't have to replace anything else in it.
Oh wow man, that's a doozy. Sounds like previous owner didn't change the oil very often and didn't use the right kind. Yikes. Well fortunately if that ever happens to me I can do the new rings/pistons myself. I plan on getting an engine crane after the warranty expires to do any further work. Having a spare engine will be a nice thing as well when all is said and done too. I'm glad you had the warranty in place, that saved a lot. It was funny I was talking with my wife about all the options, and she said something about sleeping on it for a few days to make a decision, so I did, and then when I told her I had reached a decision, and it would take 7-10 days for shipping for the new engine she got upset about things taking so long. I just laughed at this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
Yep, so today I pulled the trigger adn got the following stuff:

$3000 - engine with 3 year parts and labor warranty
- Will get a new water pump, all 3 belts. Everything else will be transferred off the old engine since I just put new coils/plugs in there.
~$500 - brand new clutch kit.
~$75 - rear main seal replacement since it's out anyways.
Personally I find this insane in order to repair a bolt hole if I'm reading it right. First off, you could buy a complete wrecked car for $1,000 to $2,000 and use the engine while selling off the rest and be in it for a fraction of what you spent. Second, any machine shop or rebuilder should be able to fix damaged threads, why replace the engine? And BTW, why does a $3,000 engine need a new water pump, belts, rear main seal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
^This guy understands what I'm saying...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Personally I find this insane in order to repair a bolt hole if I'm reading it right. First off, you could buy a complete wrecked car for $1,000 to $2,000 and use the engine while selling off the rest and be in it for a fraction of what you spent. Second, any machine shop or rebuilder should be able to fix damaged threads, why replace the engine? And BTW, why does a $3,000 engine need a new water pump, belts, rear main seal?
Well, let's look at it this way - I bought the car as is, with no warranty. I agree that the dealership sucks. This way I get a warranty to get me through the upcoming years if anything goes wrong that I can't fix myself for cheap (installing the engine myself only nets me a 12month warranty per the engine invoice warranty fine print). The fine print in the warranty says I have to replace those particular items (rear main seal, water pump, the belts) when I have it installed to keep the warranty intact (not to mention the ones on my car, that I am not transferring over, had 118k on them, 2k short of their replacement time) - on the bright side, Volvo gives me their warranty on the parts and work for 12 months if something goes wrong, and a lifetime warranty on the water pump (so at 120,000mi I can take it back to them and have them replace it for free according to their service schedule). The rear main seal is something I am having them do as peace of mind(along with the warranty fine print), along with the clutch, so that I can tell my wife with some sort of honesty that I won't need to do anything fixed with it in the next 3-5 years. So it gives me/her peace of mind it's covered locally for 12 months and through the engine invoice for 36 months. I also now get to have an extra engine I can build in time and collect parts from various places. My wife comes into this equation as well. She is very much a dealership kind of lady that has this unshakeable idea that dealerships are the best option for large repairs.

Repair on the now extra engine would have cost me removal and teardown if it was done by the dealership probably about equivalent of a piston/rod replacement in terms of labor, which would have been a very large amount of labor(12-16 hours just to remove it (close hours to a clutch change), and then I am assuming at least another 6 for teardown(assuming that's how long it takes to take off the pan and head and separate the block halves), assuming there is no shortcut way of doing it. If I did it myself, it would have been ok, just more time and finding a machine shop that is will to fix the thread, flush the oil passageway, and guarantee no debris left over in there. That's what I plan to do over the next 3-5 years, either build a stock replacement or make a powerbuild from the ground up, giving me the option to build it the way I want it over the years. Someone said the 500whp hasn't been hit yet, might as well start now, so when I go apply for my first engineering job, I can say I have both a re-engineered HARLEY and a VOLVO that I did the work myself.

I understand this whole situation is completely rat****ed. But I'm essentially paying for a warranty, and an engine with only 60k miles, which if I take care of it, with the new clutch will last me to 180k miles before we'll need to check for compression and replace the parts per the service schedule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Alrighty, so I got the new cartridge in and put the turbo back together. I have a question. it seems to be very tight tolerances on the exhaust side between the wheel and the passageway in the exhaust manifold. So tight, it seems to be somewhere in the neighbourhood of between ~.01" to ~.001", if I put any sort of uneven pressure on it while turning it by hand, it rubs the exhaust manifold hole just the smallest amount to cause some resistance but still turnable by hand. If I put even pressure across it with two fingers, it spins freely and without any restriction or rubbing. Catridge turned freely as well outside of the exhaust manifold.

The band clamp keeping the turbo tight to manifold seems to be a source of uneven pressure. With the band clamp about 3-4 full threads tightened, it has absolutely no restriction of any kind no matter what pressure is put where and the wheels spin freely. If I tighten it down all the way is when the resistance starts showing up. different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Alrighty, so I got the new cartridge in and put the turbo back together. I have a question. it seems to be very tight tolerances on the exhaust side between the wheel and the passageway in the exhaust manifold. So tight, it seems to be somewhere in the neighbourhood of between ~.01" to ~.001", if I put any sort of uneven pressure on it while turning it by hand, it rubs the exhaust manifold hole just the smallest amount to cause some resistance but still turnable by hand. If I put even pressure across it with two fingers, it spins freely and without any restriction or rubbing. Catridge turned freely as well outside of the exhaust manifold.

The band clamp keeping the turbo tight to manifold seems to be a source of uneven pressure. With the band clamp about 3-4 full threads tightened, it has absolutely no restriction of any kind no matter what pressure is put where and the wheels spin freely. If I tighten it down all the way is when the resistance starts showing up. different.
So I resolved this last night. THe tolerance is so tight in the exhaust side of it with a new exhaust wheel, even with a wire wheel taken to get the buildup off the headers, that ANY pressure put anywhere on the exhaust wheel (uneven) causes it to rub, but with NO pressure it spins fine, and with oil in the system, it will spin and keep any movement other than the spin from happening. This will be good for spool time with the tight tolerances, and worse comes to worse, we take it off and remove a bit more material if it rubs for some reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, engine is on the way! Should be here in a day or two! Snow and ice storms here have really slowed down the traffic. Shipping weight of the new B5254T3 engine was 285lbs.

With that being said, I plan on loading up the old one and bringing it home. I am either going to strip it for parts and sell it all here/on ebay or rebuild it from the ground up and sell it if the price is right.

That being said, how much interest is there here for you guys wanting parts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
What year is this S40 anyway. AWD? Never thought of just selling it as is and starting over looking for a good car? Umm, always interested in a project if not too far away.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,114 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
What year is this S40 anyway. AWD? Never thought of just selling it as is and starting over looking for a good car? Umm, always interested in a project if not too far away.:D
It's a 2006 S40 T5 AWD MT w originally 118k on the dial with the B5254T3 engine. Well, I had considered it just selling it, and with as little wrong with it as there was when I bought it, there is no point in selling a car that could just require a little love (as it's a hobby of mine, and something I enjoy doing, it is not a big deal to me). And it basically boiled down to simple numbers ($2500 to have a dealership tear it down and ship it out for repair, $3000 for a new engine with 60k mi and a 3 year parts/labor warranty, or the 6k I already put into to buy it plus only getting 2-3k selling it as is, means i still loose 3k on the deal and I have to get a new car already 3k in the hole). So I did what I thought would be the best for something that needs some love but is good everywhere else.

I am located in Colorado Springs, DC is a bit of a distance for shipping or for a project, but up to you, I personally enjoy the driving!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,412 Posts
So if it's just a hobby, why not just pull the engine out of the bay, fix the bad thread and then re-install? That would be the cheapiest and easiest thing to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
So if it's just a hobby, why not just pull the engine out of the bay, fix the bad thread and then re-install? That would be the cheapiest and easiest thing to do.
Naw, that would be too easy. OP likes to tinker.:D

My current engine had 117k on it,
Nothing for these cars. My 2005 S40 AWD had over 250,000 miles when I sold it for $5,500 last year and it ran great.



Yep, so today I pulled the trigger adn got the following stuff:

$3000 - engine with 3 year parts and labor warranty
- Will get a new water pump, all 3 belts. Everything else will be transferred off the old engine since I just put new coils/plugs in there.
~$500 - brand new clutch kit.
~$75 - rear main seal replacement since it's out anyways.
What is the mileage limit on the warranty? 50K? Still, the chance of anything going bad under warranty with these engines is slim. The chance of anything going bad on a 117,000 engine is almost as slim. It's the parts that aren't covered under the warranty that you have to worry about. The turbo, the electronic throttle, the fuel injection system to name a few, all of which could be a $1,000 repair each on a 100K+ mile car. That's why it doesn't make economic sense to put a new engine in a 10 year old car. The rest of the car is still 10 years old and other things like ABS pumps, ECMs, air conditioning system, etc. can go bad and result in 4 figure repair bills. But at least it does look like a real nice car in clean condition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Naw, that would be too easy. OP likes to tinker.:D



Nothing for these cars. My 2005 S40 AWD had over 250,000 miles when I sold it for $5,500 last year and it ran great.





What is the mileage limit on the warranty? 50K? Still, the chance of anything going bad under warranty with these engines is slim. The chance of anything going bad on a 117,000 engine is almost as slim. It's the parts that aren't covered under the warranty that you have to worry about. The turbo, the electronic throttle, the fuel injection system to name a few, all of which could be a $1,000 repair each on a 100K+ mile car. That's why it doesn't make economic sense to put a new engine in a 10 year old car. The rest of the car is still 10 years old and other things like ABS pumps, ECMs, air conditioning system, etc. can go bad and result in 4 figure repair bills. But at least it does look like a real nice car in clean condition.
Where did you get those badges?
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top