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I need a nudge- Coming from a rare 09 SAAB 2.8T MT XWD Combi wagon and would have loved to replace it almost exactly with a newer one. Just love sport wagons. Impossible today so have been looking at sedans. G70 is top on the list, Stinger close but drove the S60 R Design and it's a strong contender. Found what looks like a nice 2019 RD T6 for ~$33K/ 15K Mi but w/o Polestar, Advance Package, Driver Assist or anything else special. Loaded 2019 RD S60 w/ 7K Mi locally (above options plus B&W) listed for $42K.
Now I found a V60 T6 RD w/17K Mi that has Polestar, B&W but not much else but they also want $41K. Seems high but they just dropped it $2K and don't seem like they are budging soon.

Reliability ratings on new Volvos are not the best and repair costs once out of warranty look to be scary high ($200 to reset code for new battery?). 316HP is a lot for a 2.0T. Is this Volvo going to hold up or am I asking for for trouble pursuing this car? Isn't $41K for a 2019 w/ 17K Mi high for this car or do the wagons really command that much more?
I haven't driven the V60 but do like the drive of the S60 and can probably get past the vacuum cleaner soundtrack. Power is less than the SAAB but decent. Handling is sharper.

The SAAB was a blast to drive (320hp/ 400lb-ft) yet super comfortable and practical at the same time but odd faults and failures through the years got very annoying. Risk of parts availability and an AWD failure forced the sale. I do most of my own auto work and could not have owned the SAAB if I didn't. Would have cost a mint plus. Am I looking at a repeat w/ this Volvo?
Thoughts?
 

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I would recommend that you look at the cars and decide if it is right for you. I have a V90 and an S60 (both R Designs) and like them both. Are they perfect, no. But then again, I have had other cars over the years from Honda, GM and Ford that had major issues when new. Heck, the Honda was so bad, that American Honda flew a team of factory workers from the plant to the local dealer the next day after I FedEx a letter to the president of Honda in Japan and American Honda in the US.

It is important to note that used car prices are crazy high right now. If I sold my two year old Suburban to Carvana today, I would get approximately $2,500 less than what I paid for it 2 years ago new. My 2 and 3 year old Ford Fusions for my college kids — Carvana would give me more than what I paid.

Unless you NEED a car NOW, now might not be the time to buy because prices are ridiculous, many dealers are adding stupid fees to used cars to pack profits and they do not have to negotiate. This reminds me of the craze in the 1980s when everyone wanted Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys and the dealers added adjusted market value to everything. Waiting lists were months long and you paid $1k just to be on the list.

My Chevy car sales person told me that the current situation has not gone unnoticed by the OEMs. He believes that we will not return to the good old days of large inventories and huge factory incentives to move cars. Rather, he believes that supply will be limited - which will reduce the need for huge incentives and prop prices up at the dealerships. In that case, everyone wins except the end user. Glad I bought my cars in the last two years or so, because I believe those deals are gone for good.
 
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With these cars I'd be most concerned about high speed vibrations in the drivetrain that can't be solved so I'd definitely recommend a highway run before you buy.

That secondhand V60 RD is a one year only car which accounts for it's price. IMHO you'd have to want a wagon pretty bad to pay that much more than the sedan.

To me a two year old S60 RD priced in the low to mid thirties is a great value.
 
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The wagons are rare, the sedans are common. So yeah, if you are okay with a sedan and looking for the best value, that's the way to go. Volvo uses the same block for their diesel motors and they really don't rev all that high compared to some sport motors out there, so I wouldn't be too worried about the motor. I would get a Volvo certified car though, and not just because I work at a Volvo store, I always recommend to my friends and family buying used, to do so at a shop that can support extensions of factory warranty. For the small price of extension, you can own the car out to 10 years of vehicle life and by then you'll have a pretty good feel for if it's time to move on, or if you have another gem like your Saab has been.

The market is stupid right now, but it doesn't look to be getting less stupid in the next few months. I think it might actually get worse into 2022 at some point based on the chip issues. Honestly, it feels like the other shortages, people hear there is one, and then feel now they have to buy one while they can. I had two great customers I've been working with for several months (into last year) both call me last week and say "okay, I'm ready I'll buy that one" with relatively little specific investigation. Not that it couldn't be they did their research and now they are informed consumers, but i think they just see what's happening and have a fear of loss. Normally that's a crappy sales gimmick, now it feels like customers are doign it to themselves.
 
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ND owner here. As they say in Miata circles, "For every question the answer is always Miata", lol.
 

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ND owner here. As they say in Miata circles, "For every question the answer is always Miata", lol.
MIATA: Miata Is Always The Answer.
 

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To the OP:

Owning a Volvo out of warranty can be iffy, especially for a T6 or T8 model. Maybe in other countries Volvos are considered reliable, but here in the US I don't think anyone would put them into the reliable category. Durable, maybe, since they seem running forever even when parts start failing and things start falling off, but nobody is going to mistake it for a Japanese car in the reliability / cost of ownership category. I made sure to get a 10yr warranty with mine; as soon as it's out of warranty I'm out. Just way too many expensive things that can fail.
 
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To the OP:

Owning a Volvo out of warranty can be iffy, especially for a T6 or T8 model. Maybe in other countries Volvos are considered reliable, but here in the US I don't think anyone would put them into the reliable category. Durable, maybe, since they seem running forever even when parts start failing and things start falling off, but nobody is going to mistake it for a Japanese car in the reliability / cost of ownership category. I made sure to get a 10yr warranty with mine; as soon as it's out of warranty I'm out. Just way too many expensive things that can fail.
I'm giving up my demo Volvo because my grandmother is giving me a 1999 Toyota Camry with less than 80k on it. She wanted me to sell it and keep the money, but the PA Dutch in me is speaking and I have to drive this for the next 15 years... well, only 8 years till my daughter is 16 and I can let her suffer with it. Nothing is more boring than a Toyota/Lexus. So if you want something that will be boring forever, it's absolutely the way to go currently. But that's not much fun... I think it will respark my addiction to buying project cars that having the Volvo demo had gotten me away from because I actually enjoyed driving the Volvo to work every day.
 

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I need a nudge- Coming from a rare 09 SAAB 2.8T MT XWD Combi wagon and would have loved to replace it almost exactly with a newer one. Just love sport wagons. Impossible today so have been looking at sedans. G70 is top on the list, Stinger close but drove the S60 R Design and it's a strong contender. Found what looks like a nice 2019 RD T6 for ~$33K/ 15K Mi but w/o Polestar, Advance Package, Driver Assist or anything else special. Loaded 2019 RD S60 w/ 7K Mi locally (above options plus B&W) listed for $42K.
Now I found a V60 T6 RD w/17K Mi that has Polestar, B&W but not much else but they also want $41K. Seems high but they just dropped it $2K and don't seem like they are budging soon.

Reliability ratings on new Volvos are not the best and repair costs once out of warranty look to be scary high ($200 to reset code for new battery?). 316HP is a lot for a 2.0T. Is this Volvo going to hold up or am I asking for for trouble pursuing this car? Isn't $41K for a 2019 w/ 17K Mi high for this car or do the wagons really command that much more?
I haven't driven the V60 but do like the drive of the S60 and can probably get past the vacuum cleaner soundtrack. Power is less than the SAAB but decent. Handling is sharper.

The SAAB was a blast to drive (320hp/ 400lb-ft) yet super comfortable and practical at the same time but odd faults and failures through the years got very annoying. Risk of parts availability and an AWD failure forced the sale. I do most of my own auto work and could not have owned the SAAB if I didn't. Would have cost a mint plus. Am I looking at a repeat w/ this Volvo?
Thoughts?
Well I can relate, having had 5 Saabs and now 2 volvos. I have both a 2017 S60 R design and a 2018 V60 cc. My advice would be to go with the T6 (vs T5) if you want to match the saab accel & power. The P tune can always be added later if the car doesn't have it.

The v60 cc does not have have T6 - although I believe the v60 may. If you can find a reasonably priced R design S60, that is the way to go. FWIW, I have the HK in my S60 - it sounds great.
 

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2019 V60 was the last year they offered the T6... fairly rare car.
 

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2019 V60 was the last year they offered the T6... fairly rare car.
If I came across one I
The wagons are rare, the sedans are common. So yeah, if you are okay with a sedan and looking for the best value, that's the way to go. Volvo uses the same block for their diesel motors and they really don't rev all that high compared to some sport motors out there, so I wouldn't be too worried about the motor. I would get a Volvo certified car though, and not just because I work at a Volvo store, I always recommend to my friends and family buying used, to do so at a shop that can support extensions of factory warranty. For the small price of extension, you can own the car out to 10 years of vehicle life and by then you'll have a pretty good feel for if it's time to move on, or if you have another gem like your Saab has been.

The market is stupid right now, but it doesn't look to be getting less stupid in the next few months. I think it might actually get worse into 2022 at some point based on the chip issues. Honestly, it feels like the other shortages, people hear there is one, and then feel now they have to buy one while they can. I had two great customers I've been working with for several months (into last year) both call me last week and say "okay, I'm ready I'll buy that one" with relatively little specific investigation. Not that it couldn't be they did their research and now they are informed consumers, but i think they just see what's happening and have a fear of loss. Normally that's a crappy sales gimmick, now it feels like customers are doign it to themselves.
I just got a 19 S60 T6 R-Design fully loaded, love the B&W, that was Volvo CPO with only 10696 miles. I'm sure I paid on the high side but I was ready to buy either a new S60 T6 RD or V60 T5 RD so buying CPO saved me a ton of money - I'll use that money to extend the warranty to 10yr 100k. The wagons are very cool but I'm really happy with my sedan.
 

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I've struggled with this "reliability" stuff over the years. Everybody has got to have at least one friend like I do "Subaru sucks, VWs blow up yada yada" well maybe but I was driving a perfectly good ES300 for 7 years and I was about to gouge my eyes out with boredom. I did my time, and I don't miss it! But I do miss my WRX some days. I want a car that isn't going to blow up a lot. But I also don't value trouble free running above all else. I like to tinker with my stuff so the warranty isn't necessarily a good solution for me but perfect for many. I'm willing to take my chances if I am having fun, and the possibility I can fix things that come up, or not crushingly expensive failures you see from time to time with some models that have a "fatal flaw". I feel like Volvo has a good rep for making stout turbocharged motors at least, and making things right if they mess up. Subaru sure don't and I still like them, well at least the fun models are worth the trouble.
 

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but here in the US I don't think anyone would put them into the reliable category.
You can DEFINITELY put me on the list of people that would call Volvo reliable. They are likely one of the most reliable luxury brands today. All these "reliability surveys" are hogwash. Talk with dealership owners or automotive groups that own a bunch of brands and ask them how Volvo compares to other brands.....then you will learn something. I've worked at Volvo and then immediately followed by Lexus employment and guess what....if you are being a $60K Lexus you are not getting a more reliable product than a Volvo. I've seen the numbers and lived them first hand. I don't know how Volvo got roped into the "not reliable" category but it's not the case at all. Seriously, there are a lot of internal numbers out there at dealers that show this to be the case. My mom pilled on 190,000 miles on her S60 and never once was the car not drivable, nor did they spend $5000 in ownership maintenance in 190,000 miles. I've had the same experience over and over.

Volvos = reliable, even the SPA cars for sure compared to other modern luxury cars.
 

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Unfortunately, the measure is not whether or not the car leaves you stranded on the side of the road or requires a major repair. Rather, the metric is the number of problems per X cars. Thus complaints about infotainment systems, vibrations, and other things that folks wait for the annual service visit to address count against the reliability score.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you all for your feedback and input. Decided to push off a Volvo or G70 to another day. Several dealers started bumping up their pricing in the last few days and they are doubling down on the "There is no inventory so I can't make a deal for you" message. Would have had to spend some time going to a distant dealer to try and get a deal and still nervous about reliability. Found a 35th Anniversary GLI w/ < 10K on the clock, 5 years warranty w/ CPO. Not a great deal but fair and if I want to get something nicer in a few years, it wasn't a huge investment and 35ths will likely hold their value. Less car than I wanted but I had an 03 VR6 Jetta previously which I put an LSD and blower on and loved that car. W/ a tune, this GLI will be in the same HP range (~320) and has both a mechanical and electronic LSD. It drives really well and the adaptive suspension is actually very good. Not AWD but with winter wheels/ tires, it ought to do for a few years. Thanks again- David
 

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I purchased a '19 RD T6 loaner car with 11k in June '20. Had all the options expect PS and Bower speakers. Dealer listed for $37,500. I was tracking this car and it's been on the market for about 4 months. Was able to negotiated the price to $33,300 out the door. This was in the height of the pandemic and dealership were sitting on inventories and the used car market wasn't affect yet. The other local Volvo dealership acquired a fleet of S60 from the rental market at this time as well. Was able to use all of those factors in the negotiation. Not sure if all this info would help you but just want to provide an insight.
 

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You might look at some used German wagons (Audi, Merc, Porsche) if you want a sporty wagon. I bought a 2018 Panamera Sport Turismo, which is as sporty a 4-door wagon as you can buy anywhere, and very fun to drive. Some can be had for close to what your general price range seems to be, and you can get CPO cars. As for people poo-poohing the stated unreliability of recent Volvo models, they aren't reliable; numerous different car rankings place Volvo near the bottom in terms of reliability and cost to maintain. Consumer Reports is derided by some in this forum, but when they rank cars in terms of reliability, they are getting hundreds or thousands of reports from actual owners (they aren't pulling the data out of thin air). Somebody here says "well my Volvo has been fine, and my mother's Volvo has been fine, and my friend's Volvo has been fine", so therefore Volvo reliability is fabulous. I'll take the high-stats assessments, thank you, not the emotional claims by Volvo lovers.
 

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You might look at some used German wagons (Audi, Merc, Porsche) if you want a sporty wagon. I bought a 2018 Panamera Sport Turismo, which is as sporty a 4-door wagon as you can buy anywhere, and very fun to drive. Some can be had for close to what your general price range seems to be, and you can get CPO cars. As for people poo-poohing the stated unreliability of recent Volvo models, they aren't reliable; numerous different car rankings place Volvo near the bottom in terms of reliability and cost to maintain. Consumer Reports is derided by some in this forum, but when they rank cars in terms of reliability, they are getting hundreds or thousands of reports from actual owners (they aren't pulling the data out of thin air). Somebody here says "well my Volvo has been fine, and my mother's Volvo has been fine, and my friend's Volvo has been fine", so therefore Volvo reliability is fabulous. I'll take the high-stats assessments, thank you, not the emotional claims by Volvo lovers.
The problem is you dismiss people that actually work with the brand daily and other brands side-by-side. You’re saying Volvos are unreliable because certain things say they are and you can’t trust enthusiastic Volvo owners really is disingenuous. There are many stores that sell multiple luxury brand side-by-side meeting the service department has real actual hard numbers for repairs I Volvo a Mercedes AMG Audi and BMW side-by-side.
you go talk to one of those stores and sit down and look at things like warranty claims and fill your rates and I think you’ll find it at the Volvo‘s in the real world are significantly better than what those reliability rankings make them out to be. So many of those reliability surveys are goofy they don’t show you much. It’s really helpful when a company scores a software glitch for Apple CarPlay the same as an engine that needs replaced. I worked at a Lexus store for a long time and you know what those cars broke down all the time in the service bays were filled every day with broken cars. So what happened to all those magazines that said Lexes was just the pinnacle of reliability?
 

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The problem is you dismiss people that actually work with the brand daily and other brands side-by-side. You’re saying Volvos are unreliable because certain things say they are and you can’t trust enthusiastic Volvo owners really is disingenuous. There are many stores that sell multiple luxury brand side-by-side meeting the service department has real actual hard numbers for repairs I Volvo a Mercedes AMG Audi and BMW side-by-side.
you go talk to one of those stores and sit down and look at things like warranty claims and fill your rates and I think you’ll find it at the Volvo‘s in the real world are significantly better than what those reliability rankings make them out to be. So many of those reliability surveys are goofy they don’t show you much. It’s really helpful when a company scores a software glitch for Apple CarPlay the same as an engine that needs replaced. I worked at a Lexus store for a long time and you know what those cars broke down all the time in the service bays were filled every day with broken cars. So what happened to all those magazines that said Lexes was just the pinnacle of reliability?
I love my Volvo but thank jeebus for the CPO. I've had a LOT of things fixed over the 92.5K lifespan.

1. Piston / Ring replacement along with Breather Box (Oil Consumption)

2. ECM / Thermostat - Thermostat had a Tj and through a code. Fried ECM

3. Driver's side Mirror Motor Died

4. Backup Camera wouldn't work reliably when I first bought car - 4 Attempts to fix before solved. Wiring Harness, Seal, Software Updates, new cam, etc.

5. Kept getting the circling globe of death where infotainment would never connect to internet (Sofware Fix)

6. SRS airbag Urgent (Beginning) - Software Fix

7. Rearview Mirror was clouded over at purchase (replaced).

8. Gearshift Enamel Cracked (Beginning) - Replaced

Car is currently at 92.5K and at dealer for what I hope will be a starter replacement. Start / Stop Engaged and car didn't restart.

So I'm not going to lie. I love the car, but if not for the CPO, it would have been an expensive proposition. Again, anecdotal as this is my experience alone. But I bet that above repairs have exceeded $10K. With Piston / Rings / ECM / Thermostat / Breather Box being $6,500 total.
 
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