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Well, I begin a new thread as I end the Toyota one. I want to get to the heart of my decision making working with you guys. I search the web and the questions abound in regards to these 3, well, they usually add the X3 as well.

I am usually a person that has no problem making decision at all, I usually know exactly what I want and then I go for it. This is proving to be quite distressing to me :confused: So I start this new thread so we can chime in regards to these 3 vehicles, and of course to solicit you wonderful opinions currently owning volvo's right now.

Had the XC60 RD in passion red for a day and a half. Loved the power! Felt great. Had the S60 and if I was to get a sport sedan, would drop change for that one for sure.

However, right now it's looking at the XC60 RD and the Audi Q5 SL. The Lexus isn't going to be out until August of this year so I will comment on it then. However, looking at the specs, not the highest on my list. Looks better now, but I don't know how much f sport they are really putting into this thing.

I took out the Q5 SL (s-line) today. I had only driven the base version before. Some of the things I liked on it are as follows:

-Obviously, the interior appointments were nice. I love the speedo, with the digital read out in hi res, in clear white, and it actually had my speed in km/h. In the Volvo, the digital read out only occurs in mph. Kinda frustrating for sure. It had a lot of information readily available, really liked it.
-the navigation was in a more 3-d, looked really nice and movement around the system was pretty good.
-I did enjoy the 8-speed automatic and the paddle shifters, although, I might not used them that much. I did find using the volvo in sport mode, that turning corners faster, I would end up pulling it out of sport mode into drive.
-I found the premium sound system to be superior. Turned it up and it was clear, bass solid, and no rattling
-I did find a difference in opening the doors. The volvo as I opened them, felt a little more 'plasticy" if such a description could exist. It wasn't quite as solid of a feel opening and closing.
-Using the 3 settings for steering and suspension, I found there was a nice difference between the 3, with dynamic feeling extremely solid. Took some corners really fast and it held the road nicely
-The cabin was extremely quiet! I was taken back how quite the ride was.
-I liked some of the other little features as well, the tri-climate controls, the controls for the sunroof (multiple positions), the fog lights, I even liked the start/stop button.
-I found I like the 'BLIS' system better in the Audi. I don't know what they call it in Audi, but they used Sonar vs the cameras, so no problems in rain etc. I found in both volvo's, that sometimes it would go off with nothing beside me, kind of distracting.
-I didn't like that you can't stream music over bluetooth, but you can use it for your phone
-I do like the look of the xc60 much better on the outside for sure
-I don't know how comfy the seats would be over time, the volvo was really comfy
-I guess lastly, a fully loaded Audi costs less than a fully loaded XC60. What I would be looking at in the Volvo is the inscription package to get a more luxurious inside, black headliner, and electronic lumbar support (which Audi already has), which will add even more cost to the vehicle.

So there we have it. Feel free to chime in with your experiences and expertise! I know that one of my previous posts I put Audi on the back burner, but driving the model I would be looking at, it is still a toss up.

For the volvo, love the power, love the look, and some of the little features it has such as streaming bluetooth, warranty, comfy seats etc. At least I don't have to decide today.

I'm sure both would handle just find in the canadian winters (calgary), and both would do equally the same off road, which isn't really off road for me, just not pavement :p Anyway! I don't know much about the Volvo system for AWD and the Quattro.
 

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Ia the S-line a 2.0t or a 3.2 6?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
it was the 2.0t. They are getting rid of the 3.2 and bringing in the 3.0L supercharged from the S4 for 2013. That will be interesting to drive. I found the Volvo much more fun in the 0-100, but then again, I had it for a whole day and got to drive it lots. Both times I drove the Audi, it was in traffic and didn't get to really test this out. On paper, they are similar, but couldn't get a real feel for the 0-60, but got to do lots of turns, sharp turns, and rough roads, all of which were great on both.
 

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I only drove the 2.0t, but thought, overall, it handled and rode better than the XC60, but the power wasn't in the same league - Volvo was definitely superior on that front. Supercharged 3.0 could be a whole different ball game.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just spent a little time with a new friend of mine, current owner of an Audi A4. Short and sweet, he loves the car, but as soon as it got close to warranty, that is when everything started to break and has cost him a big wad of cash to fix everything. He has only had it on the road for 3 months of the year, it's been in the shop. Everything from the turbo, to diverter valves, to you name it.

His parents just bought 2 A3's, brand new in '10, and then after 18 months, trouble started, and they got rid of them.

I know every car manufacturer will have issues, we are humans making these things, no one is immune. I also know that forums have a slight bias to those experiencing problems than not. So in your opinions, volvo's are good as far as maintenance, cost of maintenance, and amount of maintenance, or are they worse or better in your experience?

I have always had this gut feeling about the headaches that I have heard may occur with Audi, but sometimes get blinded by some of the niceties outlines in OP. Any thoughts or experiences? I hear a dealership can make all the difference. In Calgary, there is only one and have been very impressed with them thus far. I have also spoken with others that deal there and they love it! That is a comfortable feeling to have as well. Sales guys are great, know the manager a little (our sons go to the same school and play together), and service I hear is very customer based.
 

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I'm looking at the same three except just the regular RX350. Is the inscription pkg available for the XC60? I haven't seen that yet. What does that include?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey JonnyO,

From what I've read, the inscription package will be available for MY2013's. I found a good article about it here.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1075448_2013-volvo-xc60-inscription-makes-debut

It looks more interior than anything, which would be nice. I'm most interested in the leather, the black headliner, and electronic lumbar seats.

I took out the RX350 the other day. I posted my experience with it under a previous thread called "coming from a long line of toyota's" Simplistically, after driving the xc60, I felt the power was non existent, so if you test drive these, start with the Lexus and see if you like it. The F-sport is coming out (in Canada anyway) in August sometime and will work a little bit with the suspension. The engine looks to be the same though. Post your thoughts as well as you test drive, would love to hear your experiences and thoughts.

Where are you sitting right now? What things do you like about each and wish about each?
 

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Chinese Ownership?

Does anyone have any concerns with this? I don't know many of the details at all, for all I know, it could be just a trading company that took over, left everything alone. However, I don't think that if they manufactured the car in China that I would consider a Volvo anymore. Thoughts?
 

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Chinese Ownership?

Does anyone have any concerns with this? I don't know many of the details at all, for all I know, it could be just a trading company that took over, left everything alone. However, I don't think that if they manufactured the car in China that I would consider a Volvo anymore. Thoughts?
Geely -- Volvo's owners -- are not just a trading company. They manufacture (extraordinarily crude) cars for the domestic Chinese market. Acquiring Volvo is part of their ambition to grow into a global provider and to profit from expanding sales of Volvo-branded cars in the PRC.

As with all acquisitions -- especially of Western companies by Asian buyers -- there is a period during which the acquisition believes the propaganda it is fed about "not wanting to kill the golden goose" and "running the companies separately. (For an example of this hallucination, all you need to do is search this forum for a post in which I mention Geely while complaining about something or other. It drew an immediate response from a Volvo person insisting they run the companies separately.)

In truth, Geely has already begun the process of absorbing Volvo. The senior management of Volvo is now (temporarily, believe me) at the "top" of Geely. This will not last. No westerner ever will truly run a Chinese company. I know that from experience living in Singapore.

When Geely has had enough of Swedish labor laws and extracted as much IP as it can from Volvo, it will begin the final assimilation of Volvo. Believe me, you don't want a car designed, engineered or manufactured with Chinese business processes at the heart of the product.

But, not to worry about this generation of XC60. It's a "Volvo" in the sense that any Ford-platformed Volvo from the Aughts is a Volvo. For example, the T6 engine is manufactured in a Ford engine plant in Wales.

Personally, by the time Geely does its nasty on Volvo -- an absolute certainty in my mind -- I will have long since sold my current XC60. Bottom line? If you want a Volvo, get one now while the car is still built to Western engineering and manufacturing standards, you can get one that was assembled in Europe and Volvo people are still deluded enough to think their new overlords are going to "let them be."
 

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When Geely has had enough of Swedish labor laws and extracted as much IP as it can from Volvo, it will begin the final assimilation of Volvo. Believe me, you don't want a car designed, engineered or manufactured with Chinese business processes at the heart of the product.
Agreed. I know they say the companies will run independently but I personally believe that's just marketing BS. It's just a function of time before Volvo becomes very Chinese. Just look at how much Ford parts and design got into Volvo (which was actually a good thing).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmmm, I wasn't aware it went so deep. Thanks for the info yobyot and jexx. So it may look like if I go with Volvo, it will be my first and possibly last one? The world sure is changing isn't it? All I want is a nice car to drive, fun, reliable, dependable, and without having to fork my salary over to maintain it! Too much to ask? ;)

The hunt continues. In all of this, my wife wasn't able to test drive any of the cars yet, so we hopefully go this week and she will sit in and test drive the Audi for the first time, and she will test drive the xc60 for the first time (she drove the S60 RD last week).

I didn't think this would be that frustrating of a venture, but I keep flipping and flopping (can you tell??), back and forth. One day, I'm convinced it's the Volvo, the next day, it's the Audi. I'm sure many of you are laughing as you went through the same thing. I'm just thankful I have time!
 

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Well, I'm marginally dismayed by a couple of things...Chinese ownership and eventual influence on the vehicles and Inscription. We 'made fun' of the Inscription concept over in C70 land a while back...
"Hey! Cool car...what's it called?"
'Inscription'
"Nice...what's it inscribed with?"
'Umm...INSCRIPTION'
"Huh...must be the Chinese interpretation of Swedish for leather dash"

Inscription...might as well have an Eddie Bauer or Nautica edition. ;) Big ole wheels...meh; 'Inscribed' headrest...meh; special leather...yawn; unique body colors...possibly; dark headliner...should blend with interior color, anyway. Sort of a watered-down version of the 'f-sport' RX from Lexus, I reckon.

Having said all that, I'm still looking forward to something new next year...although, the idea of holding on to a 'first edition' XC60 has some appeal. What could be really interesting is the dollar value of our vehicle when it's four years old and has 70,000 miles on it.

Now that our XC is out of warranty, it'll be interesting to see what problems might pop up. That 5-year S&S plan is looking pretty tempting. I hope Volvo continues to offer it through next year. Do you folks have a clear picture of the available warranties/service pkg for the Lexus and Audi? I know it's not always easy to determine Volvo's programs at any given time...do Audi and Lexus have programs similar to S&S?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Now that our XC is out of warranty, it'll be interesting to see what problems might pop up. That 5-year S&S plan is looking pretty tempting. I hope Volvo continues to offer it through next year. Do you folks have a clear picture of the available warranties/service pkg for the Lexus and Audi? I know it's not always easy to determine Volvo's programs at any given time...do Audi and Lexus have programs similar to S&S?[/QUOTE]


From what I understand, the salesman I am currently working with at Volvo, mentioned that the 5-year S&S plan was something brand new this year and is only offered on the MY12 Volvo's. He didn't have any idea what was coming around for MY2013. I would think they would continue it, but from your comment, I am starting to gander that Volvo changes a lot of things around all the time.

Lexus has an upgraded warranty from Toyota by 1 year all around from what I can tell. Audi is the same as Lexus from what I hear. But both of them are your standard warranties, meaning, if something goes wrong, they will fix it. Unlike Volvo which covers your maintenance costs for the 5 years. Pretty appealing to me that is for sure.

As far as Inscription goes, mostly interested in the leather application (looked at several used xc60's at the dealership which were 1-2 years old, and they all had really worn seats, especially the drivers side so I was hoping the upgraded leather would be better), and the electronic lumbar (nice, not necessary). For myself, would prefer not to have inscription all over the vehicle, but at least the font is nice!

The Lexus dealer has a nice feature though with their cars under warranty. They pick your car up, wash it, service it, and then return it to you. They give you a loaner as well while they have your vehicle. Nice touch I think, makes it easier to have service done while at work, not having to take time off, arrange rides, etc.
 

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It's interesting that so many people like the Audi interior better than the volvo.
For me, I don't like the look of the Audi inside or out. Outside it looks too much like a minivan. Inside, too cheap and plasticy.
When I bought my first volvo it was between that and an Audi and the interior of the Audi turned me right off. I especially hated the red dials. Admittedly I have never been inside the Q5, but after the interior on the A4S wagon that I drove, I never wanted to test drive an audi again.
I do notice that the cabin of my new XC60 could be a bit quieter.
 

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nuccadoc:
"I am usually a person that has no problem making decision at all, I usually know exactly what I want and then I go for it. This is proving to be quite distressing to me So I start this new thread so we can chime in regards to these 3 vehicles, and of course to solicit you wonderful opinions currently owning volvo's right now"


It gets even more complicated after owning some very nice vehicles over a period and being 'less' impressed with the new offerings. Other than the' safety' gee-gaws on the XC60, we got much the same gruppo of goodies as we had on previous Volvos and our Lexus RX...plenty of air-bags, power hatch, nice leather appointments, decent stereo, seriously comfy seats, extra 12v outlets, etc. Volvo holds the power edge with the T6 but the 3.2 is similar to the other n/a engines available.

In other words, personal preference will likely be the determining factor in the model selection. That's why we see Audis, Volvos and BMWs just on our block of the neighborhood. Go a couple more blocks and you see Infiniti, Acura and Lexus. Take a guy like me who enjoyed and drove the wheels off an Audi GT in the mid-'80s but found it was worth NOTHING after the 'unintended acceleration' claims all over the TV...I would be a little gun-shy regarding Audi--but it has little to do with the current state of Audi quality(although the next door neighbor's friend who's spent thousands in wheel/tire/brake related repairs might offer some current insight regarding her Q).

It's a tough place to be...having to spend 40-50 thousand bucks on a vehicle.:rolleyes: It sure would be nice to get the 'perfect one'; but I doubt we could come up with an absolute best among all the vehicles discussed here...never mind what might come down the road in another year!

Have fun and good luck!
 

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Coachrick had asked about Audi service. Just spoke with Audi, and at least in Calgary, they are offering 4 years 80,000km service paid. Not as long as Volvo with 5 years, but that includes everything like Volvo does. So no hassles over 4 years with them. Now, the salesman at Volvo doesn't know if they will offer the same on MY2013's or not. Audi did confirm they will continue to offer this for MY2013's as well.
 

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I would never buy anything made in China...except for 75% of the stuff I currently own. Heck, I have a 67 Firebird an guess where I had to get a new "Pontiac" 455 crankshaft from...
 

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I would never buy anything made in China...except for 75% of the stuff I currently own. Heck, I have a 67 Firebird an guess where I had to get a new "Pontiac" 455 crankshaft from...
There's a big difference between a toy -- or even an iPad -- and a car. I'll bet most of the Chinese goods you buy were probably designed and engineered outside the PRC.

Just look at the business scandals that happen all the time in China: tainted milk, the poor construction of the high-speed railway system (which many people believe is simply appropriated technology from the joint ventures that the government has required companies like Siemens to enter into in order to sell to the Chinese market).

The Chinese pattern of forced industrial JVs, followed by more-or-less indigenous products that result from these efforts coupled with the well-known corruption and short-cuts endemic to the Chinese style of business will result in some very nasty cars.

It's one thing to get a part from a Chinese vendor -- it's another thing to put your life on the line in a car designed, manufactured and marketed by a Chinese company.

Consider this: according to Wired magazine "..a premium-class automobile runs 100 million lines of computer code, more than Boeing’s new 787 Dreamliner." I'll bet if you get a fully-safety-loaded Volvo like I did, there's even MORE code in the car. As this article also points out, the wheels on a modern car are really there just to hold up the computers.

Would you really trust a device that complex that is from a Chinese company? Why do you think Chery is being so duplicitous about what it intends to do in the long term with Volvo? They know their cars are inferior.
 

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There's a big difference between a toy -- or even an iPad -- and a car. I'll bet most of the Chinese goods you buy were probably designed and engineered outside the PRC.

Just look at the business scandals that happen all the time in China: tainted milk, the poor construction of the high-speed railway system (which many people believe is simply appropriated technology from the joint ventures that the government has required companies like Siemens to enter into in order to sell to the Chinese market).

The Chinese pattern of forced industrial JVs, followed by more-or-less indigenous products that result from these efforts coupled with the well-known corruption and short-cuts endemic to the Chinese style of business will result in some very nasty cars.

It's one thing to get a part from a Chinese vendor -- it's another thing to put your life on the line in a car designed, manufactured and marketed by a Chinese company.

Consider this: according to Wired magazine "..a premium-class automobile runs 100 million lines of computer code, more than Boeing’s new 787 Dreamliner." I'll bet if you get a fully-safety-loaded Volvo like I did, there's even MORE code in the car. As this article also points out, the wheels on a modern car are really there just to hold up the computers.

Would you really trust a device that complex that is from a Chinese company? Why do you think Chery is being so duplicitous about what it intends to do in the long term with Volvo? They know their cars are inferior.
As if to make my point: http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2...ic-car-after-crash-fire/?mod=google_news_blog
 

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I hear you yobyot, but I'm sure the cars themselves are loaded with parts actually manufactured in China, and in case you haven't noticed third world countries like India (and now China) are writing a whole bunch of those millions of lines of code these days. Is Chinese manufacturing and design where it should be - nope. Is China going to get there and get there fast - the smart money says yep. Ultimately, that's what it is all about "money". The comparatively closed China will eventually open wide for cash. All of these same comments were said about Japanese cars back in the day - I know, I said them - and China is probably years ahead of where Japan was when they first started.

My guess is you are already putting your life on the line every day with tons of critical parts designed and manufactured in China. Who knows where stuff is made any more. Heck, I swapped in new shock and coil springs on my XC60 yesterday....springs were labeled "Made in France" and the "German" Sachs shocks were made in Slovakia. They might have been designed elsewhere, but that's just Geography and eventually in-house design will be the order of the day for China too. Sadly, look at the student population in the U.S. Engineering schools...a larger and larger percentage are foreign born and intend to go back home whenever they finish school. The real question on all this is "how long will it take?".
 
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