[Al Canuck]

Re: (slo-vo)

The Honduh comment was in reply to Oldman, he made at least 2 references about them in the initial post. As for the drag race stuff, I read lots about it on this forum, so I know it's something that several guys are into. My reply was not based solely on this thread, but on some observations I've made on this forum in general, that's all.

I'm sorry, but it just irritates me when I see people complaining about their expensive new cars on the internet. It happens here, and on BMW boards I visit as well. If you don't like something, get rid of it, and move on, simple.

I also don't enjoy seeing a vendor get bashed on an internet forum. As I said, I'm suprised that ANYONE makes an aftermarket performance part for our cars, and we should be grateful that someone at least cares enough to do it. By bashing these vendors, they WILL get fed up, and leave our cars alone, trust me. I don't think that's what anyone wants, do they? If you're not happy, say so with your wallet, and buy from someone else, don't complain publicly about it.

Al

 

[Oldman]

Re: (Al Canuck)

Al, my clutch smoke on the first past down the 1/4 mile, that is means it was a POSomething from the factory. Even a Yugo clutch would of held up. I'm sure a BMW clutch would hold up for many many many passes down the 1/4 mile. A drag race is no harder on a clutch then a street fight, and um if you could never use the power why even have a turbo?

Yeh vendor bashing, I wish BSR would post here, I ordered my upgrade in early Febuary.. not one reply to any email, any phone call. The don't need to be bashed Bo needs a punch in the nose and BSR is no better. Their service does not suck, the don't have any.

Oh and Al I said Honda, VW, ANY vendor out side of Volvo's BSR vendor. I think they would at least send me an EMail, I sorry that you feel just because I own a Volvo I should have a rape me sticker pasted on my butt.

You have already said your keeping your car stock, so you don't even have a dog in the fight so why don't you just move on to another thread ah?

I glad your expectation is so low, great for you. I've paid BSR more then 1,000 bucks you think I should get an email?

I'm surprised you are in business

I'm sure your customers like hearing that they are lucky to pay huge bucks and get no service cause the own a BMW. Your luck somebody will even take your money

Your right there are performance issues with the car, my car from magazine test, OEM posted HP should be able to do a 14.9 1/4 mile, find me a single stock S40 that can get close...NOT. Oh and I'm a great no more then great 1/4 mile driver and OK on the autoX. You gotta get a chip to bust into the high 14s and even that is not consistent and yes my near stock with two home made mod GS-R did a 14.7 in the 1/4 mile at 170 OEM HP. There are a few STOCK RSX with 197 peaky VTEC HP that can do the same 14.7. A true turbo 218 HP with broad torque should easily cut a high 14.. but it can't. Meaning outside of a few ringers for mag testing which altitude correct the 1/4 mile time, which of course can't be done on a turbo car there is no stock 14 second S40 that I know of and my car bone stock is some where in the 15.3 range of life or about .4 seconds slower then a 198 HP FSI GTI of near the same weight. Yes a chip does give the S40 30+ HP problem is the S40 comes from the factory about 20 or more HP short. http://********************/smile/emthdown.gif All the while a STOCK regular gas Accord at 244 HP can do a mid 14 in the 1/4 mile

I should add that the R has the same issues at least in Texas 14.7 is all she wrote on a manual R, many many many 14.7s. A stock 325 BMW can do that with 225 HP.

Modified by Oldman at 6:01 AM 4-20-2006

 

[v50t5black]

Re: (Al Canuck)

Quote, originally posted by Al Canuck »

I'm sorry, but it just irritates me when I see people complaining about their expensive new cars on the internet. It happens here, and on BMW boards I visit as well. If you don't like something, get rid of it, and move on, simple. I also don't enjoy seeing a vendor get bashed on an internet forum. As I said, I'm suprised that ANYONE makes an aftermarket performance part for our cars, and we should be grateful that someone at least cares enough to do it. Al

It irritates you that people complain about their cars on the internet? What would you have them do? Keep it to themselves? The point of this forum is to share opinions and experiences about our cars, good or bad. Not to only share good experiences or "MOVE ON".

As far as being grateful for vendors offering parts, they aren't offering them up for free or even at a low price. They are charging a preminum for them. If someone has had a legitimate problem about a vendor I'd like to hear about that as well. This forum should be about sharing information, not talk well about our cars and the aftermarket vendors or leave.

 

[Gregd]

Re: My third Volvo but my first chipped or modded Volvo and guess what. (Oldman)

Another Vote for hearing the complaints. I am waiting and listening. Greg

 

[Oldman]

Re: My third Volvo but my first chipped or modded Volvo and guess what. (Gregd)

this is my current thoughts on S40 performance:

IMO the little turbo just runs too hard and too hot even stock and has hence the ecu has to yank a lot of timing out for any fuel (once again I'm on 93 octane). We know that small turbos driven hard produce lots of hot air which leads to detonation. The intercooler is small too, much smaller then my V40. So IMO only under optimal conditions with optimal fuel does an S40 see 218 HP stock, conditions that don't happen in Texas. Maybe in Sweden, but see I purchased the car in Texas, and I would expect the OEM to design enough size and efficiency in the turbo and intercooler to provide acceptable levels of performance all the way up to 110 degrees. As we have seen in the magazine test of the R under hot conditions, Volvo seems unable to do so, and I'm sure the S40 performance would be just as poor. I live in Texas and you can believe me, that there will be lots of chip guys complaining of performance in the next month or so..

My dyno run at 27X engine HP was done at about 50 degrees. It's been in the 100 degree range here and my car with chip is maybe doing 240 engine HP….

A LP turbo, chip, small intercooler, Texas heat, your going to be lucky to see much gain. I think that is acceptable given the nice linear driving behavior of the car and the good MPG.

To sum it up we are where the 150 HP 1.8T guys were in 1998, the turbo is aready too small, given the right fuel, right temps, there can be HP, change anything from optimal and you are just a little ahead of stock.. reality bites.

BSR has responded and I have my stage III after this post, ain't the internet a great place.

 

[TFS]

I'm gonna have to agree with Al on this one. Yes, the V50/S40 doesn't have much of an aftermarket, did you not look into that when you bought the car? If you were looking for something to mod then you should have bought something else (as you stated) plain and simple. The reason there isn't much out there is because of demand, there are not a lot of Volvo's out there being modded which means there's not much money in it, since there's not much money in it, develpment is slow and expensive (as Heico has stated on here many times), they need to get that from somewhere so guess what, it comes from the customer. I don't really think they are charging a "premium" more like "recouping costs over a small number of items". Of course the aftermarket is good for Honda's, it's marketing and a fly by night company can come along stamp out 1,000,000 ram air intakes and sell them all for a profit, the same can be said for VW's. They can make pennies on each one and still make millions but how many would they sell for a V50/S40?? Likely a smal fraction of that.

I think over time you'll see a bit more aftermarket but it's slow going in volvo land and it should be obvious why. Yes, the 850 and such cars have a dedicated following but i'm sure all the parts that are available didn't appear over night. I'm sure development was just as slow and frustrating for the new 850 owner years ago.

I'm sorry that you're not having much luck with the vendors you are dealing with and there's no excuse for that, but I think being a monopoly (well BSR isn't really but it's a small pool of companies) doesn't always promote good C/S. If you want to buy a hot air intake (ram air) for a Honda and someone doesn't treat you right, there's another 5 stores in as many blocks that will be happy to sell one to you.

Someday I'd like to mod mine too (and plan to), but that was not my sole reason for buying it, if it were, I would have done what you stated, I would have bought something else. As for the whole drag strip thing, that i'll never understand. Volvo's have ALWAYS been one of the heaviest cars on the road, why you'd buy a Volvo to drag it will never make sense to me.

I too get a little tired of all the complaining around here, I think that more people should have done their research (this is a general statement, and i'm not referring to the "lemons") if they are this unhappy. My first post to this forum was to understand what I was "getting myself into" by buying this car, I took that good with the bad, weighed them against other cars I was looking at and we ended up with the volvo. Sure the lack of aftermarket is too bad as these are great cars but I knew that upfront and chose to buy it anyway.

Edit: just read your post, glad you got in contact with them.

 

[TFS]

I should also mention that I don't think prices for Volvo stuff is that high. 1000 for a chip that can be modified via the OBD port does not seem that unreasonable. If you buy a VW, APR is not much difference price wise. And H&R coilovers for 1200 US!! That's cheap for ANY car. Also, the body kit pieces aren't that outragous.

I think the biggest disadvantages are selection, which (IMHO) has an upside. At least you don't have to weed through tons for garbage to find a good quality product, chances are, if it's poor quality it either won't last long, or no one will even bother trying to make it because the "quick buck" they are looking for won't be there because there's not much money in Volvo aftermarket.

 

[Marmoset]

Re: (TFS)

Sod the straight line stuff, cheapest way of making the car quicker down the road is to install some semi-slick "cup" tyres - they've worked wonders on various cars over here in Europe according to the road tests.

I suppose the easiest mod would be to strip the interior out, probably increases the power to weight ratio more than a chipping. How's about some 4 carbon buckets in place of the standard seats

 

[Oldman]

Re: (TFS)

My port loader for my Camaro was like $300.00 and I got it in a couple of days. Sorry I did not know that Volvo vendors such as BSR work on 6 to 12 week delivery times, with no further response. It ain't like I'm looking for a turbo kit, we're talking chip tune a stage one mod.

Coilovers: well one I do race my car and please high school coil overs is not what I consider a performance mod, and the Focus, Mazda 3 both have the same suspension so there is a HUGE market for that stuff.

No I did not look into the Volvo aftermarket, my other two Volvos are stock. Like I said chip tune, is a stage 1 mod.

I don't consider spark plugs, tires or oil Volvo aftermarket, cause that stuff fits all cars. Now Volvo rims with the right bore center and offset.. ya can't get them either, or you can but they cost 2x as much for a limited selection, you see me crying, no I'll just keep the stock rims. But please chip tune for $1100 and a total of 16 weeks turn around time.. yeah what does limited market etc have to do with no email response for what must be $900 or more of profit?

 

[Johann]

Re: (Oldman)

iPD, shipped on Sunday to Europe, on the car on Friday. http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

 

[TFS]

Re: (Oldman)

Camaro? My point exactly, there's 50 Camaro's for every Volvo running around (with a much higher percentage of people modding them to I might add).

Yes, H&R coilovers are def. a High school mod

 

[Oldman]

Re: (TFS)

yes coil overs are high shcool mods, I'll see you at the race track with your high school coil overs. LOL children toys. There are some "racers" that have all the theory, fact is the CO is useless, you show up with your CO on autoX day and you will then get spanked by any and all other guys with just plain near stock height HD springs and dampers, in fact I'll just say that most CO can't even give you stock performance

. CO

wow real race stuff there....

Yeah well on my Camaro I can get dozens of heads, cams, superchargers, turbo kits, clutchs etc, once again we are talking stage 1 mods, the "simple mods" . I can understand 12 weeks for a one off turbo kit, but that long for off the shelf unit, a stage 1 mod NOT

It ain't like I'm saying hey where is the new head, cams, turbo kit, aftermarket intercooler, setup. We're talking chip, you know simple device that uploads software to the port, yeah the one that has already been develped and is now 90% straight profit.

Modified by Oldman at 9:54 AM 4-21-2006

 

[ukmatt]

Re: (Oldman)

Quote, originally posted by Oldman »

We're talking chip, you know simple device that uploads software to the port, yeah the one that has already been develped and is now 90% straight profit.

I don't know how you can comfortably comment on the profit margin BSR is making on the Volvo chip - they certainly don't provide that information so it's guesswork at best.

They may have recouped their R&D outlay on the OBDII port upload piece but I'd say they'd have to sell quite a few boxes to recoup the R&D outlay on the S40 specific software development and testing.

UKMatt

 

[swedishiron]

Direct Injection - VAG has it - their 2.0T doesn't suffer like Volvo's Turbo engines under adverse conditions (extreme heat). Even GM is about to start using it. Volvo should at least fit some form of DI on the R engines. Time to up the power too - the current R should be the new T5 (with 4C as an option). Dodge is producing a FWD only 300HP Caliber - I'm sure torque is less then the current Volvo R though. New R should be a min of 350 HP in my humble opinion with at least the current amount of torque though 330lb feet greater would be nice.

 

[Oldman]

Re: (ukmatt)

I said it is already developed which it is, so it is straight profit minus the cost for a cheap digital upload unit, I said nothing about recouping investment etc which I bet ain't that hard. Oh and I'm a digital engineer, design lots of logic and translation circuits. So I MAY have some clue about ROM decoding and you?

 

[Oldman]

Re: (swedishiron)

Direct inject works better for sure, but really at WOT the differences are not that great as the lion's share of the charge is done during the intake stroke. For VW in America the DI is completely unfunctional, it works as a conventional fuel injection unit FYI.

Look ALL mag testers use NHRA correction factors on their test, most of the test are in LA you can search I've posted the link before. Turbo / supercharged cars and in general ANY street car can't use drag racing correction factors which are based on perfect drag slick traction and NA engines. So in reality the 14.6 you see posted for the R is really a 14.8 or slower actual time, the 15.0 for the S40 is really a 15.2 or 15.3 real time and since the turbo car and maybe even slower for a FWD due to wheel slip. Like I've said IMO a S40 T5, normal track, normal temperature, good driver low 15s. This is a small turbo for drivable torque and great MPG but don't ask it to put out boost through the gears for 15 second cause things get hot very quickly…

 

[Nebor]

Re: (Oldman)

There are several issues at hand here:

To start with, you're dealing with the wrong people. You should be dealing with iPD, Eurosport Tuning, or Viva Performance (VPtuning) and maybe Volvomotorsports. Outside of those three north american vendors, forget about it. If you try to deal with someone outside the country, most of the time they're going to screw you, because you can't do anything about it. One exception that I've found is Sam Steffanson of Sweden, I've bought several thousand dollars worth of Volvo performance parts from them with no problem, aside from having to wait for a boat to cross the Atlantic with my parts.

Second, your aftermarket is severely limited by the European lack of interest in the S40 T5 engine. I'm not sure if you're aware of thise, but the S40 T5 motor isn't what we traditionally call a T5. It's what we call an LPT, low pressure turbo. It has a 9:1 compression ratio, just like a GLT, and runs only 7-8psi of boost, just like a GLT. Now that's not necessarily the end of the world, there are some fast 2.4L 850\S70 GLTs out there. It just takes careful tuning and a big turbo. Unfortunately, the S40 T5 engine isn't exactly like the old GLT enigne. It has what has been described as "breathing problems" when a bigger turbo and more boost are introduced. Even the most prominent European tuners haven't been able to overcome it and produce more than 300hp out of this so called T5. You'll also notice that Heico's high performance S40 uses the drivetrain of an S60R, which is also the same motor\turbo you'll find in an S60 T5.

I don't know why Volvo decided to make two different T5 motors, one for the S60 and one for the S40. But the S40 certainly got the short end of the motor stick. And then they shoved that stick in the new C70.

I've dealt with several aftermarket Volvo companies, and generally had very good service. My S70 can manage 13 second passes, but still needs further tuning at this time. My point is that the Volvo aftermarket is out there, you just need to deal with the right people.

For engine tuning for an S40, I would talk with Jross from Volvospeed, he does RICA tuning (the best chip tuning you can get) out of Los Angeles. You can mail him your ECU if you're not local to LA.

 

[Helmut Ranff]

Re: (Nebor)

+5 http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

 

[Oldman]

Re: (Nebor)

my T5 does 8.5 PSI and drops to about 6 PSI at 6000 RPM
with stage 1 chip it does 13 PSI and drops to about 7 PSI at 6000 RPM

Looks like the tuner knows that the car is turbo flow limited and only keeps the boost up till about 5700 RPM and it falls from there.

Yeh I know this is a LP, I don't expect to take down LS1 Camaros here, I do expect reasonable service for crazy prices. Outside the really really poor BSR service I''m now happy with the performance, and yes I have learned that you can't expect much from this car add in a little heat say 80 degree at night now and there goes the performance, don't even think about it when it is over 100 degrees like for the next 6 months.

 

[Nebor]

Re: (Oldman)

Quote, originally posted by Oldman »

my T5 does 8.5 PSI and drops to about 6 PSI at 6000 RPM with stage 1 chip it does 13 PSI and drops to about 7 PSI at 6000 RPM Looks like the tuner knows that the car is turbo flow limited and only keeps the boost up till about 5700 RPM and it falls from there. Yeh I know this is a LP, I don't expect to take down LS1 Camaros here, I do expect reasonable service for crazy prices. Outside the really really poor BSR service I''m now happy with the performance, and yes I have learned that you can't expect much from this car add in a little heat say 80 degree at night now and there goes the performance, don't even think about it when it is over 100 degrees like for the next 6 months.

I live in DFW, Texas, so I know all about the heat. Get an FMIC and water injection. Your car will run faster all the time, even in the 100 degree heat.