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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I promised a post when my oil consumption saga was finally over and here it is. I'm not going to go into a ton of detail in this first post, but I will gladly go into detail about any specific questions anyone has. I am not pretending to be any sort of authority on what you should or shouldn't do if you have oil consumption in the early 2.0T 4-cylinder B4204T11 engine. I am only relaying my experience.

So, what happened?
This...
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The piston ring on one of my cylinders completely broke. It explains why I was burning nearly 1 quart of oil every ~200 miles and the back of my car was covered in soot.

So what did my Volvo dealer do? They made me go through a lengthy process of documenting the oil consumption. Then they passed that data on to the Volvo USA Tech Line. The Tech Line recommended they follow TJ-30087 (replace the breather box). I had a warranty, but my warranty was powertrain only, so it did not cover this service. It cost me $488 out of pocket and did nothing to fix my problem. After continued oil consumption was documented, the Tech Line told the dealer to tear down my engine to see if they could see what was wrong. That was when they found the piston with the broken ring. At that point, they got in contact with the folks that manage Volvo's VIP warranty, Fidelity Warranty Services. The dealer told me that an adjuster came out and agreed that the car needed a piston/ring job (which is recommended in TJ-31216 if TJ-30087 doesn't work).

However, the adjuster did the right thing and analyzed the oil to see how much metal was in it. This was oil with less than 500 miles on it (I just had the 80k mile service done). And it came back with quite a bit of metal in it. Based on that, the warranty adjuster determined that new pistons/rings may not permanently solve my issue, so he approved the purchase and install of a brand new B4204T11 engine in my car. The dealer told me it cost them around $11,000. I was on the hook for only a $100 deductible. Now I have put nearly 1,500 miles on the new engine and had zero issues. So I am satisfied that everything was done well and the saga is over. I now have a car with about 82,000 miles on the chassis, transmission, and turbo, and 1,500 miles on the engine. It is a weird feeling. But it's a much better feeling than when I was wondering if it was going to spill its guts on the side of the road because of the unknown internal issues while it burned all that oil.
 

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woow a brand new block because of this. First time I heard about it and glad this is finally solved. I cannot remember how much I followed on all those topics

Question: did you get an extra warranty to cover this?
 

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Good thing you purchased that warranty protection. Whoa..you sure dodged a bullet.

Reading bits and pieces of those other 5 threads you post makes me wonder if Drive-E's 4 cylinder Volvo S60s are problematic for ring failures. Could it be your prior owner drove it like a madman and rarely did oil changes and used dino oil instead of synthetic ?

80,000 in 3 years is some serious driving. And if he ran it on regular grade gas with a lead foot the compression on these engines can't take that much abuse.

Baby these cars guys, doesn't look like these engines will last as long as the P1s. Have read a lot less of these issues from the S I 6 which is the top tier engine with a chain and no belt.

My 2012 oil guzzling T5 is a dismantled wounded warrior right now with pistons that survived valve collisions with valves from a timing belt skip.

Babying it once I put her back together.

Take care guys, good luck meade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
woow a brand new block because of this. First time I heard about it and glad this is finally solved. I cannot remember how much I followed on all those topics

Question: did you get an extra warranty to cover this?
The work was done by a Volvo dealer, so it comes with whatever warranty coverage that their dealer repairs normally come with.

Good thing you purchased that warranty protection. Whoa..you sure dodged a bullet.

Reading bits and pieces of those other 5 threads you post makes me wonder if Drive-E's 4 cylinder Volvo S60s are problematic for ring failures. Could it be your prior owner drove it like a madman and rarely did oil changes and used dino oil instead of synthetic ?

80,000 in 3 years is some serious driving. And if he ran it on regular grade gas with a lead foot the compression on these engines can't take that much abuse.

Baby these cars guys, doesn't look like these engines will last as long as the P1s. Have read a lot less of these issues from the S I 6 which is the top tier engine with a chain and no belt.

My 2012 oil guzzling T5 is a dismantled wounded warrior right now with pistons that survived valve collisions with valves from a timing belt skip.

Babying it once I put her back together.

Take care guys, good luck meade.
Yes, the early drive-e engines are known for ring problems. They knew about it pretty early on because they changed the rings used on the pistons in the factory during the 2016 model year. Then as the early cars were coming in with oil consumption issues, they issued TJ-31216, which says to replace the pistons that have the new rings installed. Engines up to serial number 1501327 have the "bad" rings. The new engine they gave me has the serial number 2835197.
The prior owner was a female pharmaceutical rep and that is why she put 70k miles on in 3 years. Don't know if she had a lead foot, but I doubt she really beat on it. I didn't buy it directly from her, but she left a ton of personal info in the car. The service records she left were from a non-dealer shop showing synthetic was used, but they weren't complete, so I'm not sure what change interval she used. Regardless of how hard someone drives a car or how often they change the oil, a failure like the one in that photo should not happen.
 

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So what did my Volvo dealer do? They made me go through a lengthy process of documenting the oil consumption. Then they passed that data on to the Volvo USA Tech Line. The Tech Line recommended they follow TJ-30087 (replace the breather box). I had a warranty, but my warranty was powertrain only, so it did not cover this service. It cost me $488
Not trying to hijack your thread and take off topic, but I would have a polite sit down with the Dealership General Manager doing the work (work orders in hand) and politely request a refund of $488. Stating that while the dealership followed the proper protocol, the issue ended up being completely outside the scope of a new breather box.

If he refuses, I'd contact Volvo Corporate or the Executive....Don't know about you but ~$500 isn't a small chunk of change to most people and I'd really want that back for a repair that resulted in nothing.

Yes, the early drive-e engines are known for ring problems. They knew about it pretty early on because they changed the rings used on the pistons in the factory during the 2016 model year. Then as the early cars were coming in with oil consumption issues, they issued TJ-31216, which says to replace the pistons that have the new rings installed. Engines up to serial number 1501327 have the "bad" rings. The new engine they gave me has the serial number 2835197.
The prior owner was a female pharmaceutical rep and that is why she put 70k miles on in 3 years. Don't know if she had a lead foot, but I doubt she really beat on it. I didn't buy it directly from her, but she left a ton of personal info in the car. The service records she left were from a non-dealer shop showing synthetic was used, but they weren't complete, so I'm not sure what change interval she used. Regardless of how hard someone drives a car or how often they change the oil, a failure like the one in that photo should not happen.
I asked Tech a while back about how many cars have failed and he didn't have access to any hard numbers. Would be nice to know what percentage of vehicles are coming back with problems. I own a 2015.5 FWD Drive-E S60....Knock on wood haven't had this issue.

That being said, I would order the CarFax on the vehicle and see if there are any records about where and at what intervals service was performed. Seeing she went to independents and not Volvo. I ordered a CarFax from here to check on my car's records and this site is legit. https://www.gooffood.com/

CarFax aren't all inclusive and many places don't report, but spending a few dollars might give you an idea of the car's history if services were reported. Who knows, this lady could have been terrible about oil changes and service. Figuring she'd drive the car to the ground, trade it in, and get another one seeing she is such a high mileage person.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Not trying to hijack your thread and take off topic, but I would have a polite sit down with the Dealership General Manager doing the work (work orders in hand) and politely request a refund of $488. Stating that while the dealership followed the proper protocol, the issue ended up being completely outside the scope of a new breather box.

If he refuses, I'd contact Volvo Corporate or the Executive....Don't know about you but ~$500 isn't a small chunk of change to most people and I'd really want that back for a repair that resulted in nothing.
I made that appeal to the service manager and directly to Volvo corporate BEFORE the work was done because I knew that it wouldn't solve my issue. There's a bunch of posts about it in one of the threads I linked. The original cost was actually more than $500 and my bothering them got them to give me a discount. Then my appeal to Volvo got me a 30% rebate on the part, so it was actually $488-$56=$432. I agree with you that I shouldn't have had to shell out the money for a repair I knew wouldn't work, but I had to follow Volvo's process in order to eventually get where I got, so I was bent over a barrel. The dealer knew how much trouble I went through, so they worked with me on other stuff. I can't expect them to not be paid for a repair that actually took place. At this point, I just factor the $432 into the whole ordeal and it was still a really good outcome.

That being said, I would order the CarFax on the vehicle and see if there are any records about where and at what intervals service was performed. Seeing she went to independents and not Volvo. I ordered a CarFax from here to check on my car's records and this site is legit. https://www.gooffood.com/

CarFax aren't all inclusive and many places don't report, but spending a few dollars might give you an idea of the car's history if services were reported. Who knows, this lady could have been terrible about oil changes and service. Figuring she'd drive the car to the ground, trade it in, and get another one seeing she is such a high mileage person.
I got a CarFax before I bought the car. It showed fairly regular services. Nothing that jumped out at me as abuse or neglect. Not sure why you would recommend I get the Carfax now though.
 

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I made that appeal to the service manager and directly to Volvo corporate BEFORE the work was done because I knew that it wouldn't solve my issue. There's a bunch of posts about it in one of the threads I linked. The original cost was actually more than $500 and my bothering them got them to give me a discount. Then my appeal to Volvo got me a 30% rebate on the part, so it was actually $488-$56=$432. I agree with you that I shouldn't have had to shell out the money for a repair I knew wouldn't work, but I had to follow Volvo's process in order to eventually get where I got, so I was bent over a barrel. The dealer knew how much trouble I went through, so they worked with me on other stuff. I can't expect them to not be paid for a repair that actually took place. At this point, I just factor the $432 into the whole ordeal and it was still a really good outcome.

I got a CarFax before I bought the car. It showed fairly regular services. Nothing that jumped out at me as abuse or neglect. Not sure why you would recommend I get the Carfax now though.
1. My recall sucks, did I help you out at all or you did that on your own? Can't remember all the people I've helped at this point as I don't keep a running list and it numbers in the couple dozen.

2. I understand and concur the dealer should get paid for work performed, but I'm of a different perspective. Volvo Corporate should be the one compensating the dealer since:

A. The repair was not covered and the repair resulted in zero correction of the issue
B. The seriousness of the issue which resulted in a complete engine replacement.

So I do extend my offer, if I didn't help, about having you reach out to the executives. Now that everything has been resolved and you have a long paper trail, you might stand a reasonable chance of a refund....I.E. What do you have to lose from sending out an email?

3. I only recommended getting CarFax now had you not gotten or reviewed one at purchase. More so to see if anything listed stood out as problematic on the routine maintenance. Merely, to see if there was an explanation that might clarify why the piston broke. I.E. The woman came in every 20,000 for maintenance, didn't follow up on maintenance repairs, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
1. My recall sucks, did I help you out at all
No.

2. I understand and concur the dealer should get paid for work performed, but I'm of a different perspective. Volvo Corporate should be the one compensating the dealer since:

A. The repair was not covered and the repair resulted in zero correction of the issue
B. The seriousness of the issue which resulted in a complete engine replacement.

So I do extend my offer, if I didn't help, about having you reach out to the executives. Now that everything has been resolved and you have a long paper trail, you might stand a reasonable chance of a refund....I.E. What do you have to lose from sending out an email?
I guess I just look at it as not really being worth the hassle. Have you ever heard of Volvo Corporate cutting someone a check for because they paid for a repair that didn't fix an issue on a car with 80,000 miles? Seems pretty unlikely.

UPDATE: Since I already had a case open with Volvo USA, I went ahead and sent a reply to that email explaining what I had to have done and asked "if there is any sort of compensation Volvo is willing to extend considering the $431.86 I spent on an unnecessary repair that I advised would not work and did not want to have performed in the first place." If I get anything from them, I will be sure to update and thank you for encouraging me to press the issue with Volvo USA. I'm not expecting anything more than an oil change coupon at this point, but we'll see.
 

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Very unlikely, but of course he would email everyone about it.

Oil consumption can be caused by several things. So if there is a bulletin for an updated part that was updated to fix a consumption issue, than that's where you start. A new engine for under $600 is hard to beat.

In any case, I'm glad you got it resolved.
 

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Very unlikely, but of course he would email everyone about it.

Oil consumption can be caused by several things. So if there is a bulletin for an updated part that was updated to fix a consumption issue, than that's where you start. A new engine for under $600 is hard to beat.

In any case, I'm glad you got it resolved.
A. Volvo recommended he follow the TJ steps. The TJ did not resolve his issue. Thus, OP shouldn't be on the hook for cost. Analogous to making a doctors appointment for a broken arm, and the doctor enters and says here's an Ace Bandage without performing any diagnostic, I'd be quite pissed.

B. What Volvo did here was "a cursory inspection", because their protocol instructs techs o follow a flow chart. The customer shouldn't be on the hook if these steps don't pan out and the issue is far bigger than indicated. I.E. They wanted to go to Step #2. Tear the engine down and replace the pistons...Until insurance agent INSISTED on inspecting the oil for Metal. Who would have been on the hook for Step #2? OP... at least $100.

C. We disagree as usual....However, my advice tends to result in favorable outcomes. Because if you never ask, the answer is automatically a "NO".....So it doesn't hurt to try.
 

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No.

I guess I just look at it as not really being worth the hassle. Have you ever heard of Volvo Corporate cutting someone a check for because they paid for a repair that didn't fix an issue on a car with 80,000 miles? Seems pretty unlikely.

UPDATE: Since I already had a case open with Volvo USA, I went ahead and sent a reply to that email explaining what I had to have done and asked "if there is any sort of compensation Volvo is willing to extend considering the $431.86 I spent on an unnecessary repair that I advised would not work and did not want to have performed in the first place." If I get anything from them, I will be sure to update and thank you for encouraging me to press the issue with Volvo USA. I'm not expecting anything more than an oil change coupon at this point, but we'll see.
I'd recommend doing executive emails here....If you don't mind my suggestion:

Executive Contacts

CONTACT

Primary Contact
Bill Casey
Operations Manager, Customer Care Center
[email protected]
[email protected]

Secondary Contact
Scott Doering
Vice President, Customer Service
[email protected]

Send an email TO BOTH of Mr. Casey's Emails. And a Second Email to Mr. Doering (Change Salutations) I.E. Dr. Mr. Doering but use the same email

I am writing this email to Volvo Corporate in the hope of receiving some assistance with regards to my vehicle. In march of 2018, I purchased a 2015.5 Volvo V60 T5 Premier FWD (Drive-E 2.0T 4 cylinder). At that time (or X date), I added a Volvo VIP Warranty to the vehicle. Within a few thousand miles, the vehicle developed a noticeable oil consumption issue. At the instruction of my Volvo Dealership (Insert Name), I went ahead and took the vehicle in for an inspection.

(Insert Volvo Dealership Name) contacted Volvo USA Tech Line. The Tech Line recommended they follow TJ-30087 (replace the breather box). I had a warranty, but my warranty was powertrain only, so it did not cover this service. It cost me $488 out of pocket and failed to resolve my issue. After continued oil consumption was documented, the Tech Line told the dealer to tear down my engine to see if they could see what was wrong. That was when they found the piston with the broken ring. At that point, they got in contact with the folks that manage Volvo's VIP warranty, Fidelity Warranty Services. The dealer told me that an adjuster came out and agreed that the car needed a piston/ring job (which is recommended in TJ-31216 if TJ-30087 doesn't work).

However, the adjuster did the right thing and analyzed the oil to see how much metal was in it. This was oil with less than 500 miles on it (I just had the 80k mile service done). And it came back with quite a bit of metal in it. Based on that, the warranty adjuster determined that new pistons/rings may not permanently solve my issue, so he approved the purchase and install of a brand new B4204T11 engine in my car. Which was installed and the vehicle runs great.

My concern is that I had to spend $488 for a diagnostic that did not resolve the issue and am hoping Volvo can extend some good will in order to compensate me for this loss. While I understand the need to follow a trajectory when troubleshooting, replacing the breather box resulted in no improvement. Thus, being an unnecessary repair that cost me $488. See attached work orders for Breather Box and diagnostic determining that an Engine Replacement was ultimately necessary.

Respectfully,

Your Name
Phone Number
 

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No, it's analogous to having a doctor check your symptoms and say that there are a few possible causes and remedies. Then starting with the cheapest, less invasive remedy that still has a fairly high probability of resolving the problem. It turns out it doesn't work because your problem is more of an outlier. The doctor isn't about to issue you a refund. But he also isn't about to start with complicated surgery right off the bat when many cases have been solved with his first remedy.
 

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No, it's analogous to having a doctor check your symptoms and say that there are a few possible causes and remedies. Then starting with the cheapest, less invasive remedy that still has a fairly high probability of resolving the problem. It turns out it doesn't work because your problem is more of an outlier. The doctor isn't about to issue you a refund. But he also isn't about to start with complicated surgery right off the bat when many cases have been solved with his first remedy.
But the doctor needs to believe there's a very reasonable chance the recommended solution would work....

Correct me if I am wrong, but an oil analysis is pretty cheap...Wouldn't that have been the first place to start? To see how much metal is in the oil before determining whether a breather box, new piston, or engine is the likely solution?
 

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And who pays for that?

Look at it this way. Let's say your car is out of warranty (obviously there would be goodwill, but just say there's no chance of it for this example.) You have an oil consumption problem and you take it in. They verify no external leaks are present and find a bulletin saying that your engine is in a range that had a breather box that has since been redesigned because it was causing oil consumption. Cost to update the breather box is $500. But they tell you it could also need rings and pistons. Cost for that job is $2800. Additionally, they say there is a small chance they find damage when they are doing the piston job and then it would need an engine. Cost for that is $11,000.

Where would you like to start?
 

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And who pays for that?

Look at it this way. Let's say your car is out of warranty (obviously there would be goodwill, but just say there's no chance of it for this example.) You have an oil consumption problem and you take it in. They verify no external leaks are present and find a bulletin saying that your engine is in a range that had a breather box that has since been redesigned because it was causing oil consumption. Cost to update the breather box is $500. But they tell you it could also need rings and pistons. Cost for that job is $2800. Additionally, they say there is a small chance they find damage when they are doing the piston job and then it would need an engine. Cost for that is $11,000.

Where would you like to start?
For an engine falling within the TJ for bad piston rings, I'd start with the Oil Consumption Test......

Where I risk shelling out maybe $100-$200 to get an immediate answer with no guessing games. If oil comes back negative for metal, then we've ruled out a lot of "What Ifs". So now we have either a bad breather or a bad piston ring that has yet to destroy the engine. So then it's a matter of presenting customer with two choices.

A. We can try a breather box since there is a possibility this could solve the issue. Cost = $500

B. Your engine falls under the Drive-E TJ serial number where we've had rings fail. So this remains a solid possibility. This will be about $2800 to inspect and repair.

Customer outside of warranty asks
= I've always taken my car to Volvo for Service. If I opt for the Piston Rings, and a problem is found, is there any chance Volvo will intervene here?

Customer with warranty like op - My warranty won't pay for a breather. Let me consult them and see what is recommended. Since we do know that my engine falls within the range for bad piston rings. And while we have no metal in the oil, I see a likelihood of bad piston rings being a real potential If they won't pay, then lets discuss my options

Customer is given choices vs. hey you're sh*t out of luck on that $500 bucks....But you got a new breather box.

Why I still feel OP should reach out to corporate for some good will here.....

I've had some very serious and major health issues that have gotten progressively worse. When I go see my specialist, I am always presented with options. Here's the least invasive and most invasive options with X risks and X rewards....Where the benefits and limitations of each procedure are explained to me. Similar to my example with the OP. I've yet to have my doctor tell me, we're doing it this way be damned with your logic and input into the situation.

Life has options. Some better and some worse. But putting the options on the table allow one to make an educated decision. My point here.
 

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I assume you mean an oil analysis, since an oil consumption test won't tell you anything except how much oil is being consumed. A broken ring is an outlier. We aren't going to check every oil consumption engine for a worst case scenario when there are bulletins for common known issues. It's like diagnosing a misfire fault code- if the spark plugs are worn and the coils are working then we recommend spark plugs first. We don't sell 3 hours of labor to run a compression test and cylinder leakage test first in case the car happens to have a much less common problem.

The difference between your doctor and this situation is in this situation, there is an extended warranty involved. If it wasn't powertrain only, the warranty company would be buying the breather box as a first step. You gotta play by their rules. They aren't going to pony up for a $2800 or $11,000 repair when there is a known issue outlined in a bulletin that specifically states the bulletin must be performed first. This needs to be ruled out as a contributing factor before they will pay for an engine teardown, it's as simple as that. Since the repair in the bulletin is not a covered component, the customer is on the hook for it. You're right, it doesn't hurt to ask for reimbursement. But I wouldn't be too hopeful.
 

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The work was done by a Volvo dealer, so it comes with whatever warranty coverage that their dealer repairs normally come with.



Yes, the early drive-e engines are known for ring problems. They knew about it pretty early on because they changed the rings used on the pistons in the factory during the 2016 model year. Then as the early cars were coming in with oil consumption issues, they issued TJ-31216, which says to replace the pistons that have the new rings installed. Engines up to serial number 1501327 have the "bad" rings. The new engine they gave me has the serial number 2835197.
The prior owner was a female pharmaceutical rep and that is why she put 70k miles on in 3 years. Don't know if she had a lead foot, but I doubt she really beat on it. I didn't buy it directly from her, but she left a ton of personal info in the car. The service records she left were from a non-dealer shop showing synthetic was used, but they weren't complete, so I'm not sure what change interval she used. Regardless of how hard someone drives a car or how often they change the oil, a failure like the one in that photo should not happen.
Thanks, so there is a bad batch of Drive E's with bad rings. My 2012 T5 has a TJ-29871 :

https://images.firstcallonline.com/parts/img/motor2/130443.pdf

First found out about my problem on the main Oil Guzzler and No Warning 23 page thread:

https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?227512-2012-T5-S60-Oil-Guzzler-and-No-Warning!/page23

Still...no recall....case by case basis is how they handle these engine rebuilds. Why not do the right thing and issue a recall ?
 

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regarding oil consumption VOLVO TECH site posted THIS WEEK an update document but we need VIDA to read it
Can someone help fetching this document so we know what it says?

TJ34588.2.0-2019-04-17 High oil consumption. Engine 61
 

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regarding oil consumption VOLVO TECH site posted THIS WEEK an update document but we need VIDA to read it
Can someone help fetching this document so we know what it says?

TJ34588.2.0-2019-04-17High oil consumption. Engine 61
Would be interested to see that!

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
 
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