SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Tl;Dr Can I remove an angle gear and use the same axles?? Trying to get a stock aw55 car into the 13s with no monetary investment.

Hey all, I've had this parts R for quite sometime. I affectionately named it mule, because it carries all my spare parts obviously...
It's an 04 aw55 worn the heck out v70r. The good is it's got a dealer maintained book going back to 04 and it runs wonderfully.. BUT it was smoked in, it was eaten in, it was probably slept in and anything else Tucker Max would do in a car, this one probably had.

So I started racing it at our local 1/4 track, it only sees track time, and it will continue to until something breaks, then it's going to the dump after I take the bits I need.

I have a personal best of 14.66 at 4600 ft and 80*.
The car is all stock except weight loss, and the weight loss is dramatic...
My question is, can I remove the angle gear without having to put different axles in it?? Now the reason I ask is because in all my race times, with awd activated I actually run slower, so I am removing the drive line soon, and thought if I could get the whole angle gear out, that would be great...
My end goal is to hit 13.99 on stock tune with no mods but weight loss...before this thing blows up on me.

Here's a quick video of the weight loss... Not shown is the sunroof and AC removal. I have yet to drill some speed holes as well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,030 Posts
Wow - that is a dramatic weight loss. Do you need all that wiring going to the back? I guess you need to drive it there and it needs to have lights...
I see the escort - still going strong?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yeah about 10k miles on the rebuilt motor in the escort. It runs great.

I am going to cut a lot of the wiring out of the Volvo this spring. I need to lose 700 more pounds I think. Realistically I would be in the 13s with the torque limits removed in 1st and 2nd, but I am not going to do that. This is a fun and silly project that I don't want to invest money into... Only time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
I don't see any particular reason why you couldn't physically remove the angle gear, rear diff, driveshaft, and rear axles.

Things might get interesting though when you consider the angle gear sleeve has a seal between it and the transmission. This would be my only concern, and you'd probably need to find a new seal with smaller ID to seal against the axle instead. The output shaft that is there to drive the sleeve/AG would be spinning, but not attached to anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,030 Posts
Wouldn't look as cool, but lose some of the lower cladding, wang?
What's it look like under the hood?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I don't think I have any under hood pictures, but I removed all the plastic and useless items, such as the top mount and bar.
I am going to remove the haldex and all that.
You bring up a good point of creating a leak with the collar gear seal point negated... I'll have to take a look into this as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Have you tried swapping the DEM with an instant traction one (aka 06-07) to get off the line faster? It's a plug and play swap no software required. If you end up removing it all you might be better served buying a FWD AW55 for $300 and swapping it in--different engine config ones have different final drive ratios (like the NA one is different from the LPT one)

You should also check and see if you have laminated or non laminated glass, that would save you a bit by swapping. And then toss the exhaust and put a hater pipe through the hood... (honestly the exhaust weighs a ton and is not giving a benefit). And then swap the headlights for the later plastic halogens.

Also the top mount actually matters...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
Have you tried swapping the DEM with an instant traction one (aka 06-07) to get off the line faster?
Not trying to discredit you or hijack the thread but I feel like this gen 3 DEM in a gen 2 AOC is a bit of a myth, Contrast told me he thought so too.

The hydraulic circuitry of the gen 3 AOC is different from gen 2 to allow this "instant traction" function. Have a look at the hydraulic circuit diagrams in VIDA. Enter vehicle profile for vehicles having the gen 2, 3 and 4 AOCs, and look at the information tab, it's under AOC general information or specifications or something like that. Gen 3 DEM in Gen 2 AOC may engage the pump early but at the end of the day I don't think it makes a difference at all because the electric pump is just a feed pump. Electric pump feeds hydraulic fluid to the actual pump which is mechanical. In gen 2/3, it requires a difference in rotational speed from input/output of Haldex to generate any working pressure to engage the clutch pack. Gen 4 Haldex/AOC uses the the electric feed pump to generate the main hydraulic working pressure to the clutch pack, no more mechanical pump.

It may be possible to an entire 4th gen AOC into the rear diff housing... THAT would be the sh!t.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
You can remove the angle gear and use the same axles. I have recently done this on my XC90. There are a few threads about this, and most people suggest you need to do something to retain the collar sleeve in the transmission. I put two screw clamps together around the passenger side axle and the screw part of the clamp is pressed against the sleeve to help hold it in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Not trying to discredit you or hijack the thread but I feel like this gen 3 DEM in a gen 2 AOC is a bit of a myth, Contrast told me he thought so too.

The hydraulic circuitry of the gen 3 AOC is different from gen 2 to allow this "instant traction" function. Have a look at the hydraulic circuit diagrams in VIDA. Enter vehicle profile for vehicles having the gen 2, 3 and 4 AOCs, and look at the information tab, it's under AOC general information or specifications or something like that. Gen 3 DEM in Gen 2 AOC may engage the pump early but at the end of the day I don't think it makes a difference at all because the electric pump is just a feed pump. Electric pump feeds hydraulic fluid to the actual pump which is mechanical. In gen 2/3, it requires a difference in rotational speed from input/output of Haldex to generate any working pressure to engage the clutch pack. Gen 4 Haldex/AOC uses the the electric feed pump to generate the main hydraulic working pressure to the clutch pack, no more mechanical pump.

It may be possible to an entire 4th gen AOC into the rear diff housing... THAT would be the sh!t.
Instant traction is just starting the feed pump at engine start vs wheel spin start to provide a reserve of pressure that can be released instantly... Gen 2 is 1/4 a wheel rotation to get pressure on the clutch, gen 3 is like 1/17 or something minuscule. Alternatively you could override the AOC entirely to apply full clutch pressure at the start...
 

·
Registered
2006 S60R. gt, nordikap
Joined
·
13 Posts
Instant traction is just starting the feed pump at engine start vs wheel spin start to provide a reserve of pressure that can be released instantly... Gen 2 is 1/4 a wheel rotation to get pressure on the clutch, gen 3 is like 1/17 or something minuscule. Alternatively you could override the AOC entirely to apply full clutch pressure at the start...
as someone with and 06 SR GT. i can tell you that i feel almost 0 wheel spin when my car kicks me in the butt squats and goes you can clearly feel the rear "kick in". i have a dem from an v8 xc90 which i personally removed from xc and installed it on my R. prior to fixing angle gear sleeve, all i did was light up front wheels not fun actually scary w. but i will say it makes the car fell like a normal awd car. not and awd on demand car. i replaced the dem before i knew the collar was no good so i have no comparison. i can only say what i feel as i drive the car now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Have you tried swapping the DEM with an instant traction one (aka 06-07) to get off the line faster? It's a plug and play swap no software required. If you end up removing it all you might be better served buying a FWD AW55 for $300 and swapping it in--different engine config ones have different final drive ratios (like the NA one is different from the LPT one)

You should also check and see if you have laminated or non laminated glass, that would save you a bit by swapping. And then toss the exhaust and put a hater pipe through the hood... (honestly the exhaust weighs a ton and is not giving a benefit). And then swap the headlights for the later plastic halogens.

Also the top mount actually matters...
Thanks for the ideas, I am not going to go as extensive as swapping the glass out, thought I did check already and it is not the laminated glass. I have considered chopping the exhaust off at the resonator but then I'd have to start trailering it to the track.
My current plan of action is to remove the prop shaft, rear diff, and axles. Take my first run at the track this spring with those out, see where I am and go from there... As a last ditch effort if I am say... 14.1ish... Will be to take my two R spares I have and get real tires put on them and run them in the rear.. This will cost some money, but should lighten the car while also removing rolling resistance...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Also, I have a aluminum racing seat I am looking into getting installed, but it's nice to race in comfort... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
Instant traction is just starting the feed pump at engine start vs wheel spin start to provide a reserve of pressure that can be released instantly... Gen 2 is 1/4 a wheel rotation to get pressure on the clutch, gen 3 is like 1/17 or something minuscule. Alternatively you could override the AOC entirely to apply full clutch pressure at the start...
Did you look at the hydraulic circuit diagrams? They are different between gen 2 and 3. It is not just a software difference. The feed pump will not generate clamping force on the clutch pack by being engaged early on gen 2 from what I remember when I was studying the diagram vs gen 3 diagram.
 

·
Registered
2004 V70 T5M
Joined
·
1,910 Posts
@kTaLgsTo
Interesting project. I need an HU-850. I think '04 is a little early. Still have the radio/CD?
HU803 is much better than an 850 anyways, despite having only four CD slots in the changer versus six
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
@SilverStreak177
Not so concerned with the # of CD slots, but the HU850 was/is the unit that I've seen in 98% of 2006 V70R's. However, I'm intrigued by your comment that the 803 is a better unit. Can you expound on the differences & why you would choose the 803 over an 850?
Thanx.
 

·
Registered
2004 V70 T5M
Joined
·
1,910 Posts
@SilverStreak177
Not so concerned with the # of CD slots, but the HU850 was/is the unit that I've seen in 98% of 2006 V70R's. However, I'm intrigued by your comment that the 803 is a better unit. Can you expound on the differences & why you would choose the 803 over an 850?
Thanx.
HU803 has far better audio processing, despite the HU850's Pro Logic 2 vs the 803's Pro Logic 1. The quality of the actual components used is higher in the 803, and the cost cutting tricks (thinner, cheaper wires, cheaper processors, etc.) used in the 805 aren't there in the 803.
On top of that, with the 803, you get some hidden menus -- an EQ menu for adjusting levels on all the car's speakers, a settings menu for the head unit's various other functions, diagnostics modes, etc. Tons of writing and videos on that, so not going to expand upon how to use them here.
The EQ menu, especially, allowing you to adjust each speaker's levels to your liking is an extreme benefit, and can help you get whatever sound signature you want based on the music you listen to and/or your personal preferences. Immense plus in my books.
HU803's preamp is much better as well, providing cleaner power and more aural transparency. The 805 colors the sound a bit, adding a sort of processed/metallic synthetic quality to it. To most ears it's a minimal difference (and many non-audio people don't notice it at all), but it's there, and to me, it's obvious.
If I were to ever add an '05+ V70 to the fleet, an 850 >>> 803 swap would be one of the first things on the list bar attention to mechanical issues.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top