[Phattires68]

Now that I've got my 1968 Volvo P1800 running and driving, I'm looking ahead to the next motor. I've read everything I can find from John Parker. Bought several parts from him as well. He sells a turnkey 2.3L or 2.5L B20. That is certainly an option but was wondering if anyone has heard of Sten Parner in Sweden. He also sells a rotating assembly, head, cam etc... for a 2.5 stroker but recommends a using a block from 74 -76 year model with 8 bolt crank to flywheel. Are there unforeseen fitment issue using this block rather than rebuilding my 69 B20 engine. You might tell me to stay away from pushing the 69 B20 block that far as I've heard they are not as strong as the latter ones.

I'm just starting to investigate where I want to go in with the drivetrain. Not averse to going with a more modern motor with an overhead cam. Don't mind blower or turbo (what do you guys think about that turbo kit on ebay? Probably a generic setup but wanted your thoughts)
Not looking for a V8. I am looking for minimal cutting, maximum economy with 200+ ponies.

 

[gdill2]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

A B20 with 200+hp will not give good mpg unless driven at a steady 2200rpm in OD.

Not much chance of that given your desire for power.

Decide how you want your FINAL finished car to be setup then work in that direction.

If you can be satisfied with 160-180hp then rebuild the '69 B20 using proven upgrades (ignition, fuel injection, cam, etc.) keeping the crank/pistons stock.

If you don't need AC run the Parker B20 supercharger setup (complete engine turnkey from him).

If you want to skip the mpg issue go all-out with a full-house stroker B20 block from the '75 USA 240 model and spend big bucks on a computer-controlled ignition/fuel setup running a hot cam, 10+:1 CR, Aqua Mist, etc.

Me? Get the stock setup running right and enjoy the ride!

George Dill

 

[Phil Singher]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

I don't know anything about the Swedish kit, but John's strokers are very well developed and proven to deliver the power he advertises. There's no problem running premium unleaded.

There's no particular advantage to using a later B20 block. There's some notion out there that those have more metal around the cylinder bores, but neither John nor I have ever been able to confirm that. What's important in doing a large overbore (and 92mm is not the absolute max in any case) is that the block doesn't have much "core shift," which is the block originally being machined offset to the casting, and having cylinder walls thinner on one side than on the other. A good machine shop should be able to sonic test your block and see if yours lends itself to overboring or not.

As for fuel economy, it doesn't have to decrease. If it takes 50 HP to go 70 MPH (I don't know what the figure is -- this is just for illustration) with an engine that peaks out at 120 HP, it still takes 50 HP to go 70 MPH with an engine that peaks out at 220 HP. You just don't have to push the gas pedal down as far. Of course, you do burn more fuel making 220 HP than 120... so, it depends how you drive it.

 

[Phattires68]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phil Singher)

So to recap your two posts:
1.) A 1976 8 bolt crank to flywheel B20 would fit with no major modificaitons and bolt up to my bell housing transmission etc...
2.) The 1976 8 bolt crank is probably not any stronger than my 1969 B20 6 bolt crank (assuming it checks out as a good candidate).

My goal: This will be my daily driver with a commute of 35 miles each way but 95% highway driving.

Criterion: This will be as good FUNCTIONALLY as a Civic or Cobalt or Accord or Focus (select the toaster oven of choice)

Must have's:
Air Conditioner and get at least 29 MPG if I drive it right (70 mph max but mainly highway). Upon meeting the above criterion make it as stinkin' fast as possible...

Because of the AC I'm thinking about doing it all with the motor rather than a supercharger. I don't know a thing about turbo's but not upposed to what I don't know.

I'm wanting tourque. More cubes will need more gas but more cubes will produce more torque which will allow me to reduce the rear end gear ratio from 4.56 to something a bit more managable like 3.55 or 3.73 Not sure on the gears but 4.56 is nuts... My speedo broke last week (parts on order) but flow of traffic (65-70 miles an hour) I was over 4,000 rpm with overdrive.

 

[gdill2]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

Quote, originally posted by Phattires68 »

My goal: This will be my daily driver with a commute of 35 miles each way but 95% highway driving. Criterion: This will be as good FUNCTIONALLY as a Civic or Cobalt or Accord or Focus (select the toaster oven of choice) Must have's: Air Conditioner and get at least 29 MPG if I drive it right (70 mph max but mainly highway). Upon meeting the above criterion make it as stinkin' fast as possible... Because of the AC I'm thinking about doing it all with the motor rather than a supercharger. I don't know a thing about turbo's but not upposed to what I don't know. I'm wanting tourque. More cubes will need more gas but more cubes will produce more torque which will allow me to reduce the rear end gear ratio from 4.56 to something a bit more managable like 3.55 or 3.73 Not sure on the gears but 4.56 is nuts... My speedo broke last week (parts on order) but flow of traffic (65-70 miles an hour) I was over 4,000 rpm with overdrive.

You will not 29mpg in a B20 under any cirumstances.

Skip the supercharger and skip the turbo. Go with the '69 B20 in perfect condition with perfect FI or twin SU HS6 carbs, R134a AC with rotary compressor, electronic ignition, mild cam, water injection and running premium pump gas with no additives.

If your car is stock and the OD is working correctly 70mph should be well under 4000rpm on the tach if the tach is reading correctly.

BTW, your car is a '68 with a '69 B20?

George Dill

 

[Phil Singher]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (gdill2)

George, I beg to differ on the mileage thing. I built and installed a 2174cc ~180 HP B20 in an ES for a guy near Tucson last year, and he averaged 30+ MPG on the drive back from my place, taking mostly secondary highways and cruising around 80 MPH. That with 200 miles on the engine (not fully broken in), 4.30 gears, AC, and the injection settings just roughed out.

With the ~200 HP B20 in my 1800S, I get 28+ at 70 MPH cruise with the original 4.56 gears. That's with 48mm Weber sidedrafts dyno tuned for power, not economy.

You are quite right about the tach readings, though -- those old Smiths tachs are notorious for reading higher and higher as they age. With 4.56 gears and D-type OD, 70 MPH is about 3400 RPM, which is right about where the torque peak is and a stock B20 gets its best efficiency. I don't subscribe to the theory that lowering RPMs necessarily improves economy -- note that VW used to advertise the Beetle in the '60s at getting it's best gas mileage at 72 MPH, where it was essentially flat out.

4.30 gears go really well with a torquey performance B20. I built a 2.3 liter stroker for a targa-type 122S last year (not using John's kit -- we engineered our own), and set it up for a really wide torque band rather than peak power. It was within 10% of peak torque from 3200 - 6500 RPM, and with 4.30 gears was able to top 130 MPH (which is about as fast as it's sane to push a 122 through the air, IMHO).

I dunno what kind of fuel economy that one got, though...

 

[gdill2]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phil Singher)

MPG revisited.

Once the odo is corrected for its "optimism" go through at least ten complete tanks keeping records of total gallons and miles travelled.

If desired, calculate the speedometer error but this is unrelated to mpg calculations.

Also, temporarily hook up a tach known to be accurate and compare the car's tach. This is also not related to mpg calculations.

If you make major performance changes to the car start the mpg calculations anew.

Let's say you start keeping accurate records with a full tank at 120,000 on the odo.

Six months later you again have a full tank with 130,000 on the odo (you enjoy driving!).

Looking at your records - you have travelled 10,000 (odo-corrected) miles using ??? gallons of gas. Don't include the gas gallons at the first odo fillup but do for the last.

Now you have a good picture of your car's mpg.

Since you (and I) enjoy reading all about Volvos here is some B20 stuff just be wary as the www has a lot of bs out there...

http://www.buvic.com/car/repairs/b20.html

http://www.1800philes.com/ianr....html

http://www.classicvolvo.com/on...e.htm

http://www.1800philes.com/tuning_article.html

http://www.1800philes.com/engine_article.html

George Dill

 

[Phattires68]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (gdill2)

I've read all but the first one!!! I LOVE Mr. Berry's car. LOVE LOVE that car. When you read his posts, you can hear, "If I only knew then, what I know now..." Truly great stuff. He's in Austin now, I think. I'd like to track him down and see that car of his.

Bottom line... if John's engine was a little less expensive, I'd probably do that but I ain't got that kinda coin... No knock, just can't swing that for a motor. Not in the budget. I've got his suspension and exhaust system so why not. He obviously knows what he's doing plus is well respected by you geniuses.

 

[Phattires68]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

Phil? you still building engines?

 

[gdill2]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

Quote, originally posted by Phattires68 »

Phil? you still building engines?

Just took a quick google for "Phil Singher" and "Volvo" (within the last year) and he continues to be admired and recommended for his superb work...

http://www.v-performance.com/docs/

http://www.hemmings.com/users/1/ride/21.html

http://vintage-cars.old-n-good....html

George Dill

 

[Phil Singher]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

Quote, originally posted by Phattires68 »

Phil? you still building engines?

Sure, although you wouldn't know it from my very outdated website. Shoot me an email if you'd like to talk about one.

editor AT vclassics DOT com

 

[164 nut]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (gdill2)

Hi George,
These links are great. I like the list of parts available for B20's and that stroker crank is very impressive - no chance of getting similar for a B30 do you think (3.75 litres would be something)? I imagine there would not be enough demand to justify this sort of part. Lucky some of the other components can be utilized.
Like everyone budget, time and identifying what you really want from a car are things to decide early on otherwise a car project can just waffle into a total mongrel.
Cheers,
James

 

[R Salesman]

Re: modifying a B20 to a Stroker 2.5 liter 220hp+ engine while still running pump gas (Phattires68)

Quote, originally posted by Phattires68 »

Phil? you still building engines?

Not to downplay John Parker's prowess, but Phil's probably one of the foremost Einstein's of redblock engine building. He's a wealth of information, and has helped me out with knowledge on more than one occasion as I get my 164 back into good health. He gets a big thumbs up from me.