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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am seeing a small amount of leakage coming out from around the dipstick. The oil is not overfilled.

Is there some bushing or something that goes there that I am not aware of?

- After some additional review, it looks like this may be associated with crankcase filter blockage. I have been meaning to ask what was the reason for the hoses around the block that seemingly don't do anything... They are there, I just don's really know what this does. I will be checking it though!

Any additional insight into possible reasons for the oil leak would be appreciated.
 

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Pressurization of the crankcase can result in increase oil leakage from - just about everywhere. Crankcase filter blockage - are you talking about blockage in the positive crankcase ventilation system? In 1966, I think the B18 could have had positive crankcase ventilation or a simple vent to atmosphere depending on the market. In the early PCV system, there was a hose that went from the oil separator on the driver's side of the engine block, over the valve cover and connected to a nipple on the intake manifold. Air entered the crankcase through a connection from the filler cap to the air filter housing. On the later system the air flow direction was reversed.

The oil separator on the side of the block can become plugged so that is the first thing to check; however, to pressurize the crankcase the air inlet from the air filter would also have to be plugged or blocked off or disconnected.

The Volvo parts manual does show something that sort of looks like a bushing that fits on the end of the dipstick tube. The manual just calls it a pipe. The part # is 418645; however, it appears to be out of production.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Ok. So here is a few photos of my setup. There is a tube from the oil cap to the air breather. There is another tube that is T'd into the first tube and then goes to the crankcase breather oil trap.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rnysoBTuG3epWXCG9

All of the tubes appear open. I blew into the tube on the crankcase breather oil trap and I saw some smoke come out of the front of the engine near the fan (I had been driving). I also have some oil pushing out of the timing chain cover - this is a new leak and I am wondering if it is from the crankcase air pressure.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zvdhoi65BhrJp3mS7

Do you think I need to replace the timing chain cover gasket - even if I get the crankcase breathing properly? Urk...

I took the crankcase breather oil trap off. It looks empty. I suppose that I can just clean it with gas and an old toothbrush? I can blow through it but there is some resistance. The flame trap appears to be built into it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uMQ5kW6S5MYxMPPP7

So. If I get the crankcase breathing better, do you think I still need to replace that timing gasket?
Also, Can I clean this thing or do I have to get a new one? Please confirm that it is supposed to empty with no media inside. I expected it to have some type of media in there.

I could blow through the oil cap as well - but there is some resistance there. It does not blow through perfectly easily.
 

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That crankcase ventilation system seems to have suffered from some previous owner creativity? It definitely was not designed by Volvo. As currently installed, you are not getting any positive air flow through the engine to remove vapour from the crankcase. However, the crankcase filler cap is vented into the air filter housing so the crankcase should not be pressurizing unless the oil filler cap is plugged and the oil separator is plugged. This diagram is from the 140 parts manual. The oil separator marked #4 9on the left) is the arrangement used on the B18 in the 140.

PCV.JPG

The hose from the filler cap to the air filter on your car looks sort of correct; but, you don't have the hose from the separator to the nipple on the intake manifold and I don't see any place on the intake manifold to accommodate a nipple. Is the intake manifold a transplant from an earlier car which did not have a PVC system?

From my B20 experience, there is nothing in the oil separator canister except the restriction on the outlet. You can clean the separator by soaking it in mineral spirits or with a blast of throttle body cleaner. You can also clean the filler cap by removing the top - I think there are 3 or 4 retaining screws around the periphery of the cap.
 

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Breaker;

I agree with 142G...your PCV Sys is not per (ANY) of the factory designs, but some POs creative plumbing (possibly because engine was developing blowby)...hoses and components may be free to flow and unblocked, but I suspect because of the non-valid config, you are still creating positive Crankcase pressure under certain operating conditions, and this is all it takes to cause oil expulsion (and no, Timing cover gasket should not leak, but way up there is well above oil fill level, so I wouldn't think about replacing gasket until after correcting PCV Sys and seeing if leak there persists!).

First, I'd return it to one of the Factory configurations, see link, or 142G info...if engine is producing excessive blowby, which in this config can foul Air Filter, you can arrange for a different filtered fresh air source, but first things first!

Oiltrap has no filling...it works by gravity only...Oil Filler Cap has course mess filling.

I request your permission to republish your pix (with attribution) on my page as an example of wrong config.

Good Hunting
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ron,
Post away - you have my permission.

142 and Ron,
Thank you for the insight!
I soaked everything in carb cleaner, blew it out, resoaked, and blew it out again. The oil cap is now flowing with no restriction. The oil trap is flowing well also.

The gentleman that I purchased this from said that he had 5 of these that made this one. He was a director of engineering at a nuclear plant. It is a 1966 P1800S, but it has a B20 engine. The carbs, I am pretty sure from my lookups in the past, are from the B18 originally.

So, I am sure that it is a bastardized system. I have no place to connect on the manifold.

If you have any recommendations on how to edit the hoses (sans manifold nipple), I am all ears.

Ron - I do not understand exactly how you recommend that I connect this - unless you are saying to dump it on the ground. I could just take the connected hose and circle it around towards the ground.
 

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Breaker;

PO of otherwise high qualification is impressive, but does NOT assure that he was necessarily qualified in changing the Volvo PCV system...even proves it, if he's the one who got creative! Specialization is specialization!

My non-specific recommendation is that because you have some options and leeway as to which config you should bring your PCV Sys to...you should first determine what hardware you have (Oil Filler, Oil Trap[probably big B20 or small B18 style], restriction orifice, etc), if you have excessive blowby (a compression check would do this), then also which config you would like to install based on those fixed parameters, plus your choice! If you have B20 components, it would obviously be simplest to bring it to the factory B20 Carb config, or functionally equivalent.

Tnx for repost permission, please private message, or better yet, e-mail me name besides Breaker, you would like me to credit.

Cheers
 

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Being a Director of Engineering does not necessarily mean that he is an engineer, and if he is he forgot or missed out on the typical second year physics class where you get an introduction to basic fluid dynamics. Particularly the part where you need a pressure differential to induce flow. At that Tee where the hose from the oil trap and the filler cap join up, the air pressure is the same, ipso facto no pressure differential between the filler cap and oil trap and no air flow. However, as set up if the oil trap and filler cap are not plugged the crankcase should be vented to atmosphere and should not be pressurized.

The diagram I provided may not be that useful for your B20 retrofit hybrid. The B18 arrangement on the 140 probably won't work for you because I think (I am not sure) that Tee in the PVC hose on the B18 was used to provide vacuum to the 140 brake booster which is why there is a valve (part #11) below the Tee. Volvo ditched that design on later cars so probably not a good idea to try and replicate it. If you go here:

http://volvo1800pictures.com/sweden/Volvo_1800_dokumentation_main_page_en.php

you can download copies of both the service manual and the parts manual for the P1800. From the manuals, you may be able to figure out a workable / easier PVC arrangement for your car. That said, I think you are going to have to find a manifold with a port in it or drill a hole in the thickest part of your existing manifold to accept the correct fitting for the tube for the PVC. Use the correct fitting from Volvo. It has a restricting orifice in it. If you try to use a conventional barbed to NPT fitting from someone like Lowes or Home Depot it will result in too much air by-passing the carburettor metering circuits which will screw up your fuel mix. As it is, if your carbs have been set up without the PVC they may need some tweaking after you have added in the PVC.

The gasket on the timing cover is a thin paper like material. The timing gears tend to spray oil on that seam as the engine runs. If the gasket is original it will have hardened and likely cracked and it would not be unusual to see surface accumulations of oil along that seam. Pressure in the crankcase would definitely make it worse. As an observation, the valve cover gasket is usually the most leak prone gasket on the B18/B20. Make sure that its not oil leaking down from the front of the valve cover onto that spot. However, as Ron suggests, deal with the PVC system first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Okay! Update!
I removed the T and now the oil cap is connected to the air breather only.
I took the pipe from the oil trap and made an upside down U.
This means that it goes up from the oil trap then turns and is pointing down toward the front cross-member under the engine. The other end is open.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3TUgjhssgRmQUFr78

I have been driving all over today and the pressure issues appear to be corrected. I still have a small amount of leakage from the timing belt cover, but it is not leaking because of crankcase pressure. I will try (probably unsuccessfully) to tighten up those timing belt bolts to see if that makes any difference.

I will likely drive it like this for a while to see how it reacts over more time. I also want to see how much oil is coming out of the downturned tube. I saw none today. I will button it up and do a more professional job once I am satisfied. I may add an oil catch can if needed.

Thank you all for your insight into this issue! You have been a huge help!
 

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Hi,

Not sure if this will help, but this is how it looks like on my 65 with a B20 engine from 69.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4ab4h66gsZ9vcSj29
That is the correct arrangement for a dual carb B20 (hose from the oil separator to the fitting on the intake manifold). If you can replicate that on your '66 you should be good to go.

How many vintage Volvos do you have?
 

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Okay! Update!
I removed the T and now the oil cap is connected to the air breather only.
I took the pipe from the oil trap and made an upside down U.
This means that it goes up from the oil trap then turns and is pointing down toward the front cross-member under the engine. The other end is open.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3TUgjhssgRmQUFr78

I have been driving all over today and the pressure issues appear to be corrected. I still have a small amount of leakage from the timing belt cover, but it is not leaking because of crankcase pressure. I will try (probably unsuccessfully) to tighten up those timing belt bolts to see if that makes any difference.

I will likely drive it like this for a while to see how it reacts over more time. I also want to see how much oil is coming out of the downturned tube. I saw none today. I will button it up and do a more professional job once I am satisfied. I may add an oil catch can if needed.

Thank you all for your insight into this issue! You have been a huge help!
That works. You have effectively turned the engine into an early '60s Volvo without 'Positive' crankcase ventilation.

Small correction, the cam drive is by gears not a belt on the B18 and B20. The belts came with the later OHC engines. If you decide to replace the gasket around the periphery of the timing cover, plan to replace the seal on the crankshaft also. The original Volvo seal is felt and they harden with age and once disturbed by removal of the timing cover I am willing to put serious money down that it will not reseal (if it isn't leaking already)

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/6801/101448-volvo-felt-front-crankshaft-seal-b18-b20-elring-418622

For significantly more $ than a simple felt seal you can get a complete replacement timing cover with a modern neoprene lip seal for the crankshaft. High probability that it won't leak in your lifetime.

http://212.247.61.152/us/main.aspx?page=article&artno=418693

IPD used to sell these on a core exchange basis for $30 or $40; but, no longer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
142,
Thanks for the update! I am ordering the new timing cover and gaskets. I plan on keeping this car forever and I don't want to deal with leaks forever. The cover replacement really looks pretty easy.
 

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142,
Thanks for the update! I am ordering the new timing cover and gaskets. I plan on keeping this car forever and I don't want to deal with leaks forever. The cover replacement really looks pretty easy.
Its been a while since I did my engine rebuild, so this is from memory. As I recall, the front of the oil pan is attached to the bottom of the timing cover with a couple of bolts - don't forget those bolts when attempting to remove the timing cover. they need to be accessed from below. The sticky point is that depending on the age of the pan gasket, when you pull the timing cover forward to remove it the pan gasket may stick to the bottom of the timing cover causing it to rip. In that particularly ugly event you are into a pan gasket replacement which entails lifting the engine so that becomes a case where a simple job suddenly becomes more complex.

The other thing to be aware of is that there is a spacer (Volvo calls it a hub) on the snout of the crankshaft. This hub fits over the snout and it provides the surface which the timing cover seal contacts. On my engine, there was a slight groove where the hub was in contact with the felt seal and there was some corrosion on the surface at the contact point (the car and engine had been parked for 20+ years before I started the resurrection process). Neoprene seals are excellent seals when the mating surface is in good shape. They are not so good at accommodating surface irregularities. Check that hub. If it does not polish up nicely with some 600 SiO paper, then you might want to consider replacement.

Ron had recommended a compression test. I suggest doing the compression test before you do anything on the car because if it does need ring or valve work then you might want to do the timing cover replacement and the potential gasket replacements as part of that work. If the compression is good, then proceed with the timing cover on a stand alone basis.

Working on old engines is always a potential case of opening a can of worms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you! This engine does have less than 5,000 miles (probably less than 1,000) - but it is 10ish years old since the build. The pan gasket issue is pretty serious. That is noted!
 

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Breaker;

142g already mentioned it, but I want to reiterate because getting this wrong is easy, and yields no improvement...!

...the Oil Pan Gasket does interface with the lower Timing Cover...two bolts must be removed and depending of which kind of gasket sealer was used at installation, and how well it glues thing together, you might be able to CAREFULLY, and with a thin, sharp putty knife or razor blade, separate the gasket from Timing Cover BEFORE trying to remove the TC...that's what I'd try first! With care and a bit of luck, you can separate them, and not tear up the OP Gasket as you pull away the TC, and effectively relocate your oil leak with this operation... If oil pan gasket does get destroyed during this work, to the point of obviously not being able to keep the oil in anymore, a replacement for the destroyed part should be cut (from gasket material of similar thickness), the area cleaned well and degreased, and resealed well during reinstallation.

Remember also: During reassembly, Neoprene Crankseal will tend to self-center on Crank, BUT not if biased to the side heavily by the oil pan and gasket...definitely check for this...and you may need to assure centering with shims!

Good Hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Ok. So after much time and sealing of other leaks, I would like to report that my current fix is still not great.

As a reminder, I had just turned the hose down from the crankcase breather oil trap - like in older P1800s. This hose is open to the atmosphere under the engine.

I have determined this is a problem for the following 2 reasons.
1) When connected correctly, you should be providing a very small negative pressure (especially no positive pressure) in the engine which will help to reduce oil leaks.
2) It is all pretty stinky when sitting at a light to have the vent coming out basically just in front of you.

Because my manifold is from an older P1800, I do not have the breather tube port. I will be making one and adding a PCV.

Do I need a restrictor orifice as well? If so, I am having a hard time finding one. Any suggestions?

Also, any suggestions for drilling and tapping the manifold without taking it off? I do not want metal filings? Can it be done or should I just order some gaskets now? I hate to screw with the whole intake system all because it cranks and runs perfectly.

Thank you all for your help.
 

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I am not really knowledgeable about carb arrangements; but, it might be easiest to see if you can find a later B20 dual carb manifold with the correct nipple from a salvage car. I believe that replacement nipples are available from VP Auto, CVI and the like; but, you would have to assess whether you have a boss on your current manifold that is suitable for drilling and tapping for the new nipple. As to doing the drilling and tapping of the manifold on the car, the carbs are going to have to come off so that you can stuff rags inside to prevent filing from entering the engine. Depending on the location of the nipple, this might not even be possible. I would be inclined to suck it up and plan for the complete removal of the manifold to do the work.

Yes, compared to modern cars with evap systems, sealed crankcase systems and exhaust emission controls old cars do have a significant olfactory presence. However, before getting too far with your car, how is the condition of the engine. Have you done a compression test or are you monitoring oil use (as opposed to loss). If the rings are tired and you have a lot of blow by, that is going to increase the volume of fumes exiting from your current crankcase vent system and even if you can switch to a closed system you may find that you are still pressurizing the crankcase and have leaks.
 
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