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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There have been many who have tried, but nobody does this concept better than Volvo does.











Regards,

P
 

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Yeah, Volvo makes beautiful wagons, but unless you have a top secret Polestar tuned 508hp wagon, it's not going to compare in any shape or form to the E63 you pictured.

Also, that's a body kit. Made by a tuner. Not MB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Roger that, got it, understood, that post was for you.

When it comes to 300 horses in a XC70 or V70 XC versus 500 in something else, just how much road are you going to need to show any difference, is my question?

If you are on flat interstate then yes you just sit back in the couch and press your right foot down and watch what happens, but on the non-interstate highways and back roads, my experience is I can easily overshoot a darn good chassis with far less horsepower than 500 and I suspect everyone else can too.

We had an interesting comparison with the SOHC and DOHC 928 cars. The twin cam motors just pull into the high rpm while the SOHC jobs breathe out at around 5000, with no point in going more unless you are driving a Euro version with hotter cams. The basic consensus was that the twin cam car was of course faster, breaking over 170-mph in stock form at the time on the flats, but a SOHC version driven in anger would generally be right on the tail of the faster model on a winding road circuit because chassis was the real limiting factor unless you were on the salt flats at the time (professional race drivers notwithstanding, nor having The Stig involved, lol).

I think some of the V70 wagons are some of the cleanest non-flashy Bauhaus designs of all time. Really simple and very nice. I have a XC70 version which is nice but it has a lot of "stuff" tacked on that make it a XC but also add some unnecessary clutter.

I saw the hopped up body kit for the Mercedes and it just looked like someone was really trying to make it a Volvo.

best,

P
 

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Guys, GTFOH

Let's appreciate Volvo for what it is, honestly. They make great cars for the money, but we lose credibility when we start to claim that they are better than the E-class when it comes to anything but safety, reliability (versus post w210 MBs) and maybe looks (versus w210 & w212). Seriously, one has to ask whether or not anyone making such claims has ever driven an E-class wagon, or even sat in one. The E-class is MILES UPON MILES better in terms of fit and finish and drive and ride quality. I've owned some E-class wagons over the years going all the way back to the w123s and test drove every one of them against their Volvo competitors (occasionally ones owned by family members) and there's no comparison; never has been if we're being honest here. Name any stock Volvo wagon and I'll take the same year E-class every time for every category except safety, and reliability (against later MBs); that even goes for the 850R and T-5R vs. the stock w210 E-320, though those Volvos are faster.

And we won't even get into details on the allroad, S4, RS-4, S6, and RS6 wagons from Ingolstadt, all of which have offered and continue to offer FAR better driving experiences and looks than their Volvo counterparts.
 

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NewVolvGuy,

I have to disagree with you regarding the ride quality of E-class wagons (newest model excluded as I have not driven it) vs previous Volvo wagons.
I know both very well and the last E class wagon, although elegant looking, had a ride that made me yawn. The seats were hard as wooden boards. The radio sucked. The COMMAND HMI was beyond ridiculous.

The XC70 T6 that I had for 12,000 miles was plainly awesome and cost a lot less (loaded with every option but RSE) than a modestly equipped E350 4MATIC. My 2001 V70 T5, with 125,000 miles, elicits from me a constant desire to drive it for errands or whatever even Fter 11 years of ownership. I cannot imagine I would feel even remotely close if I had an E320 wagon with its floaty ride, hard seats relatively anemic engine... :cool:

Don't get me wrong. I totally respect Mercedes cars with regards to their sound safety and technology. However, to paraphrase old politico and also Mr. P in an another thread: "I have had Volvo wagons and I know Mercedes wagons. Volvo wagons are very close to my heart. Mercedes, you are no VOLVO wagon". :)

That is one segment in which Mercedes cannot touch Volvo as an overall package, including what you get for the money. Exception to the rule: E63 but that is a totally niche offering and not for the masses so I will leave it out of the discussion/comparison.
 

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Now Yannis, let's get Volvo to send the V60 to the US!!
 

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Exception to the rule: E63 but that is a totally niche offering and not for the masses so I will leave it out of the discussion/comparison.
Yes and no, IMHO.

E63 wagon is a unique beast, combining, in theory, the best of all worlds. However, the reason is didnt make my list this time around wasnt so much the cost (!) as the fact that its not available in AWD. A fatal flaw for consideration in the the "all around best wagon" category, in my mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It is amazing how much money people will actually spend for a 3-point star out front of their nose, lol.

The part of many Mercedes models that offends me, other than being pompous and a bit ostentatious in some configurations, is the cost. As we all know, "cost" is not necessarily an indication of overall quality, it is more a function of "what can we get for this product" based upon market position, and of course expense and quality yes. Shipping bricks from Colorado to Nashville is no indication the cost equates to quality, because the freight is what runs up the cost, for instance.

When Mercedes builds a product that is equal in price to a Volvo, that is when they need to step up to the plate and see what quality is really all about. It is hardly fair comparing something that costs $10K, $20K or more.

:)

P
 

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The EUCD XC70 is a Swedish Buick. Big turn off. That's why so many people go to the XC60.
 

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It is amazing how much money people will actually spend for a 3-point star out front of their nose, lol.

The part of many Mercedes models that offends me, other than being pompous and a bit ostentatious in some configurations, is the cost. As we all know, "cost" is not necessarily an indication of overall quality, it is more a function of "what can we get for this product" based upon market position, and of course expense and quality yes. Shipping bricks from Colorado to Nashville is no indication the cost equates to quality, because the freight is what runs up the cost, for instance.

When Mercedes builds a product that is equal in price to a Volvo, that is when they need to step up to the plate and see what quality is really all about. It is hardly fair comparing something that costs $10K, $20K or more.

:)

P
The MB GL SUV's are one of the best packaged and executed SUV's. EVER. I have had 3 of them and put over 300,000 miles on them combined.

You really need to get out there and check out what's on the market NOW instead of reminiscing about what it was like in the 1970's and 1980's and stop talking out of your rear end.
 

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The owners of a Mercedes convertible (C-class?) and a new GL have moved into the high rise I live in, the personalized tags on the Mercedes convertible state "ENVI US" - I think that sums up the reason many people buy Mercedes Benz. Perception is also a factor, people still believe they are getting the best in Safety, Durability etc which isn't backed up by independent analysis or testing. I believe a lot of that perception is due to having spent a large sum of money on a a product and they want to believe that extra money is justified.
 

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The owners of a Mercedes convertible (C-class?) and a new GL have moved into the high rise I live in, the personalized tags on the Mercedes convertible state "ENVI US" - I think that sums up the reason many people buy Mercedes Benz. Perception is also a factor, people still believe they are getting the best in Safety, Durability etc which isn't backed up by independent analysis or testing. I believe a lot of that perception is due to having spent a large sum of money on a a product and they want to believe that extra money is justified.
When your advertising motto is "The Best or Nothing", I suppose you're hoping people feel that way. I loved the performance of my e63, although at times felt a little ostentatious driving it. There was a time I liked feeling that way. Now that I'm older, more successful, and more secure, it doesnt matter to me whether I drive a car whcih makes others envious or not. I like my XC60 quite a lot, and care not what my peers thing. Ah, maturity.


The MB GL SUV's are one of the best packaged and executed SUV's. EVER. I have had 3 of them and put over 300,000 miles on them combined.
100% agreed. I really, really, really wanted to get a GL550 rather than the XC60 I chose and bought. But, after driving them, and even finding a sweet 2010 CPO with just 10k miles, I still couldnt justify paying nearly 2x the XC60 cost, and then getting 12mpg (or less). Loved everything about the GL550 - rode like a dream, powerful, amazingly designed inside and out. Sigh. And for whatever reason, the GL450 didnt float my boat.

When you add the "...for the money" preface, I think the Volvo products cant be beat.
 

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Yes and no, IMHO.

E63 wagon is a unique beast, combining, in theory, the best of all worlds. However, the reason is didnt make my list this time around wasnt so much the cost (!) as the fact that its not available in AWD. A fatal flaw for consideration in the the "all around best wagon" category, in my mind.
I believe MB is considering AWD AMG's in the near future.
I would like to see AMG's with OPTIONAL AWD. There is still something about a powerful RWD car as you know.
Oh the sound of those AMG engines!!! I still like blipping the throttle in tunnels and in parking garages just to hear that 6.2 liter V8.
 

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The owners of a Mercedes convertible (C-class?) and a new GL have moved into the high rise I live in, the personalized tags on the Mercedes convertible state "ENVI US" - I think that sums up the reason many people buy Mercedes Benz. Perception is also a factor, people still believe they are getting the best in Safety, Durability etc which isn't backed up by independent analysis or testing. I believe a lot of that perception is due to having spent a large sum of money on a a product and they want to believe that extra money is justified.
Stop generalizing.
I drive my E63 not to show off. I am 45 years old and don't care about that.
But I do care about a car that used to be the fastest 4 door sedan in the World.
This is car that doesn't have a rattle. The doors close like a bank vault. The headlights are incredible.
More importantly, it is decently roomy and the car seems to handle better the faster you go.

After a long day at the office, it is nice to be able to start up that 6.2 liter V8 and enjoy the smooth torque as I drive east on I-90. It is the little things in life after a long day that recharge my battery.
 

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When Mercedes builds a product that is equal in price to a Volvo, that is when they need to step up to the plate and see what quality is really all about.
You mean the C-class? If you compare the S60 T6 AWD to the C300 4Matic or C350 you will find the Volvo is all around the better car and the obvious choice in all but three areas...

1. The C-class has a boring ride, so if you want soft and easy, it might win you over.
2. The C-class has that 3-point star.
3. The C-class has gorgeous exterior styling.

But in every other case, the Mercedes really does offer more for your money if luxury is your end goal.
 

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Stop generalizing.
Defensive aren't we ? I said that it sums up the reason "many" people buy Mercedes products, not all. I considered buying a nice used Mercedes SL Roadster but it didn't have the shoulder room I need AND after seeing the IIHS Small Overlap Crash test results I have lost some confidence in Mercedes' commitment to Safety Engineering.
 

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It is amazing how much money people will actually spend for a 3-point star out front of their nose, lol.

The part of many Mercedes models that offends me, other than being pompous and a bit ostentatious in some configurations, is the cost. As we all know, "cost" is not necessarily an indication of overall quality, it is more a function of "what can we get for this product" based upon market position, and of course expense and quality yes. Shipping bricks from Colorado to Nashville is no indication the cost equates to quality, because the freight is what runs up the cost, for instance.

When Mercedes builds a product that is equal in price to a Volvo, that is when they need to step up to the plate and see what quality is really all about. It is hardly fair comparing something that costs $10K, $20K or more.

:)

P
You are probably going to think I am going to disagree with you because you don't care for me...but honestly, we are all lovers of cars here! Stop talking about being ostentatious because you drive a certain car. Frankly a lot of folks could say the same because you drive an XC90. After all, a 2008 Explorer would serve you well too.

The MB's are generally speaking better built than Volvo's. They just are. But the beauty of Volvo's is that you still get a premium product at a decent price. This is the reason I bought my S60R over an S4 (well and the awesome OSD and my friendship with Bob Kennedy and Yannis). Is the S4 a better car than the S60R? Frankly yes, but factor in the price and it becomes less clear.
Is the MB a better SUV than the Volvo? Yes it is. Again factor in cost, it becomes less clear.
 

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If you look at Personal Injury claims, the C-class is about as safe as the average vehicle if you include all sizes and classes with about 8-9% more claims than the average.. The SL class on the other hand is about as safe as it gets based on claims data. The SL-class has 56% fewer claims than average. It's about as safe as the XC60, which is Volvo's safest model in the US right now. This actually puts the SL-class as the fourth safest vehicle to be in based on claims data, behind only the 911, Corvette, and Chevy Silverado Crew-cab. It's tied with the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Lexus LS.
 

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When your advertising motto is "The Best or Nothing", I suppose you're hoping people feel that way. I loved the performance of my e63, although at times felt a little ostentatious driving it. There was a time I liked feeling that way. Now that I'm older, more successful, and more secure, it doesnt matter to me whether I drive a car whcih makes others envious or not. I like my XC60 quite a lot, and care not what my peers thing. Ah, maturity.




100% agreed. I really, really, really wanted to get a GL550 rather than the XC60 I chose and bought. But, after driving them, and even finding a sweet 2010 CPO with just 10k miles, I still couldnt justify paying nearly 2x the XC60 cost, and then getting 12mpg (or less). Loved everything about the GL550 - rode like a dream, powerful, amazingly designed inside and out. Sigh. And for whatever reason, the GL450 didnt float my boat.

When you add the "...for the money" preface, I think the Volvo products cant be beat.

+1
 

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My other cars are a brace of Rolls-Royces.

I buy them to drive. I haul my dog around in them. I go to Safeway, TJ Maxx, Neiman Marcus, etc. in them.

I park them on the street.

NONE of my cars, except for a Delaunay Belleville, are put on a pedestal.

As for the GL vs XC, towing capacity, dealer responsiveness, air suspension, comfort, and ease of driving in city were what sealed the deal in the GL's favor.
 
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