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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I'd start a new thread to keep things tidy.<P>Here are the results from my crude 'bunsen burner' test:<P>If I lock the doors via remote after I have driven the car, the seats will indeed adjust back to the LAST setting that the seats were positioned at when the doors were locked... as long as I am using the SAME remote. <P>If I open the door by remote, adjust the seat WITHOUT CYCLING the ignition key or STARTING up the car, then relock the doors by remote, key, or central lock button... my seats will readjust to my last memorized DRIVING position the next time I unlock the car(you need to open the door for the seat to start moving... but you guys all knew that!).<P>In the event the seats have been adjusted and either the ignition has been cycled or the car has been driven, the remote has now coded the new seat settings and will be memorized into the remote which is CURRENTLY in the ignition regardless of whether the doors are locked by remote, key, or central lock button on driver's side door.<P>Now let's get real crazy. Lets say I adjust my seats while I'm driving and my wife locks the car with her remote. Guess what, the last memorized seat position is on my remote (last key in the ignition theory) not hers! Her seat settings are still coded to when she last drove the car. <P>So if someone plays around with your seat settings, all is well until they put a key in the ignition and turns!<P>I have tried this 8 times tonight and feel pretty satisfied that all is as it should be. There is a line in the manual that might be open for interpretation:<BR>"The seat will move to this position even if someone else has adjusted the seat since you last drove" I think the key phrase is "last drove" which goes back to my 'last key in the ignition theory'.<P>Well, since it is now almost midnight(seems like old times)I will call it quits for now until Darell finds some holes in my logic... what can I say it's past my bedtime.<P>Sweet dreams.<P><P>
 

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Rob,<P>I, too, spent last night playing with the memory seats and the remote (with strange looks from wife and dog and no desire to explain what I was doing to either one). I can pretty much confirm most of your results, except I only have one working remote, so my tests were not quite as extensive as yours. <P>You're right, though - which setting the remote memory retains depends on whether or not you cycle the ignition. This leads me to your problem, Darrel. It sounds as though your car is not "coding" the new setting when the ignition is turned on. That might explain why your seat keeps moving back to it's original position, even though you've made seat adjustments while driving. It's a thought.<P>I think we've also confirmed that the remote memory seat settings are also unrelated to the 3 memory seat settings on the seat itself.<P>Hope this helps.<BR>Frank<P>
 

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Thanks for the new thread Rob. Good idea.<P>It sounds as if yours and Frank's are both working as they should...it's exactly how I expect mine to work. My car seems to make a distinction between cycling the ignition and actually running though (just tested this last night, but only had time for one test). I cycled the ignition without starting the car, and the remote memory worked as it should. If I actually drive the car when I adjust the seat, the remote memory fails. This doesn't help ME any, of course, but maybe it will help the techs run this thing down. Since I've only had a chance to do the ignition-on-but-not-running test once, I have no idea if this is a real find or just a fluke. Thanks for the input.<P>Sure is easy to get confused with these tests, isn't it? I'm really impressed with the fancy stuff Rob tried...that just makes my head hurt.<P>- Darell<P>ps. My dog thinks I'm nuts too. He ventures out to the garage hungry for action....and trots back into the house when he realizes I'm boring and the garage is freezing.<P>
 

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Well, I just tested my ignition-on-but-not-running scenario a bunch more times, and it works perfectly. Now why would it act differently with the car actually? Hmmm. Well, I see the PSM( power seat module) has two programmable areas:<P>>seat temp settings (also in CEM) <BR>>seat settings remote memorization on/off<P>I wonder if they can just cycle that memory setting to get things right again.<P>We'll see tommoow.<BR>- Darell<P>
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey guys...<P>I forgot all about that valet key I haven't seen in months(nobody ever talks about their valet key!) I dug it up and put it to the test. Here's what I found:<P>Open the door w/ the valet key. Adjust driver's seat till your blue in the face. Lock the doors either by key or central lock button. Open door with valet key. The seat position will be the same as when the door was locked, regardless of whether the ignition had been cycled w/ the valet key.<P>Now open the doors with either of your remotes and the seat position will be reset to THEIR last memorized positions. <P>Note: There is one caveat... Do Not have any of your remotes nearby when you conduct the valet key test. My remote was in my pocket when I did the valet key test & it memorized the newly adjusted settings when the doors were locked w/ the valet key. Bringing the remotes into the house resolved this problem.<P>So in conclusion, if you need to loan your car to somebody or bring it in for servicing... give them your valet key. <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif"><P>valet noun [C] <BR>(esp. in the past) the personal male servant of a wealthy man, or (in the present) someone at a hotel or restaurant who puts your car in a parking space for you <P><BR>
 

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I have some philosophical questions about the seat adjustments:<P>1. When you get out of the car, why should the seats do anything until the next time someone comes to drive it? i.e. why don't they just stay where they are until there is a reason to change? From everything discussed in these threads, it sounds like the seat repositions itself when you get out of the car. My q. is why , and where does it position itself to?<P>2.I thought that the whole purpose of having memory seats was so the seat could be easily positioned to some previously selected position, and if you use the remotes, remote #1 positions the seat to memory position #1, remote #2 to memory position #2, and if you purchase a third remote, remote #3 positions the seat to memory position #3.<P>3. What about the side mirrors?
 

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Hi Roger -<P>We must have mislead you somewhere along the line. The seats do NOT move when you lock or get out of the car, only when you open the door to reenter. Here's how the the thing should work:<P>You're driving along with the seat exactly how you like it. You park, exit and lock the car with your remote. The next person to drive your car is your four-foot wife (sorry Kim). She uses her key with her remote. When she remotely unlocks the door and opens it, the seat should return to last position that she had it in when she last locked the car. So she does nothing buy happily climb in and drive off. She can do whatever she wants with the seat while she drives around, but the next time you open the car with your remote and open the door, the seat should return the last position that you had it in when you remotely locked. On later build-date cars (later than Rob's at least) the mirrors are memorized along with the seats. My mirrors work correctly, but my seats seem to remember the PREVIOUS setting in stead of their LAST setting each time. So, in short, I'd be better off with no remote memory function at all. The dealer is on the project as we speak.<P>The remote memories have NOTHING to do with the three on-seat memories. I've heard many dealers say they are connected, but they are not, to the best of my knowledge (which is far more extensive than it should ever need to be).<P>- Darell<P>
 

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Well as a practical matter, my description was probably close to the truth:<P>Let's say Person #1 always likes the seat in a certain position, and they set Memory #1 for this position. They use their remote (We'll call it Remote #1) to lock the car, then the next time they unlock with that remote, the seat goes to their position. Even though the remote may not be tied to the memory, it actually does the same thing.<P>Right??<P>I had it explained to me by the dealer that the remotes were keyed to the memories, but in reading the manual, I know that your explantions are correct; I just don't understand why they did it that way. It would be much more simple, and easier to understand if they just had each remote tied to one of the memories.<P>And to be honest about it, that's not the only thing I can't figure out the reasoning behind.....
 

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Roger -<P>Right, right, right, and right.<P>See if you can figure out the reasoning behind having to press the remote button twice to open the rear hatch (?) (I've decided to change mine to one-button full-unlock during this service visit. I have no idea if that will effect that hatch button as well...hope so. They want $100 for this software installation, BTW. Why the hell this would require new software is just WAY beyond my comprehension. I told them they should really throw it in for my troubles...this being my sixth service visit for warranty work in as many months - we'll see how that flies.)<P>Just about everybody I've talked to at my dealership is under the impression that the on-seat memories have some software tie-in with the remotes. I don't know where they get this info, and as usual it's difficult convincing them that a mere customer could possibly know more about the cars than they do. The VCNA guys that I'm now dealing with are somewhat fascinated (scared ?) that I can track info down faster than they can in some instances.<P>- Darell<P>
 

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Darell,<P>Just to follow up, I was at my dealer this morning to have my remotes replaced and the reprogramming performed. No problem. They seem to be working fine now.<P>While I was there I also asked if they could set up my remotes so that the lights flash twice when I press the Unlock button. Right now, the lights flash once when I press the Lock button, but not at all when the Unlock is pressed. They said they could do this, but needed to download the software (from Sweden maybe?) and install it in my car's computer. It would cost about 85 bucks. I also couldn't believe they were charging me for this. I was told there are a lot of custom settings they can download for you, but you have to pay for them. <P>To make a long story short, they were unsuccessful installing the software and I couldn't wait around any longer. However, they will follow up and call me back in when they figure out the problem and can complete the installation.<P>Frank<BR> <BR><P>
 

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Frank -<P>Well, I'm glad your remotes and seats are working well now. That's the good news. I'm sure they'll figure out the software download deal soon. <P>Yes, when they have to download software, they charge you for the software and for a mechanic's time to stand there and watch it download. Crazy.<P>I have what I think is the complete list of what can be changed via software. I'll post it as a new thread, so take a look if you're interested.<P>- Darell<P>
 

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OK, Ok, Ok… I was planning on staying out of this discussion but here I go anyway.<P>The remotes are just transmitters, right? So if Rob’s theory about the valet key is correct and you need to make sure that the remotes a not near the car when the valet key is used, wouldn’t that imply that they were also receivers that are constantly scanning for new codes to memorize? If this was the case, the little batteries would hardly last a day. Right? Also, what happens to my wife’s remote in her purse when I start the car with my key whenever we’re together, or vice-versa?<P>One more little thing that bugs me about the remotes. Let’s pretend that both of my remotes and my car are all working properly (I know that’s a real stretch). I go to the garage, get into my car and go do some guy things. While I’m out and about, I lock and unlock the door several times, but it makes no difference to me because I’m the only one driving. When I come home the car goes into the garage. However, and maybe I’m different than most people (no comments Darell), I don’t usually lock my car when it is inside of my own locked garage. Later, when my wife goes out, she opens the unlocked door and has to adjust the seat with the memory button on the seat because, since it wasn’t locked, the remote didn’t do anything. Then, as was the case with me, while she is out she locks and unlocks the car several times. But it doesn’t matter because it’s always just her in the car! Therefore, the seat function of the remote is only useful (for me anyway) if we ever trade drivers often while on the same trip (and that doesn’t ever happen), or if we start locking the car doors when the car is parked in the garage. Comments?<P>And I don’t even want to bring up what happens when we borrow each other’s keys!<BR>
 

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See? This is the kind of stuff that makes my head hurt.<P>A cerebral discussion such as this just wouldn't be the same without you Bruce, so welcome.<P>I'm almost thinking that Rob just experienced my standard memory problem, and attributed it to the remotes being in the proximity. Of course proving this one way or the other would take lots more late-night garage time, so we may never know that answer.<P>As far as I can tell Bruce, you're right. Used the way you use your keys and remotes, it would be just as easy to not have remote memory. If, god forbid, a valet parks your car at one of the swanky little restaurants that you frequent, and you manage to only give him the key and not the remote, then you'll be stylin' when you open the car with your remote, and the seat swings back around to how you like it (assuming the 500-pound valet had to move your seat).<P>Here's my biggest complaint in all this: If I didn't have the remote memories, I'd be much better off too, for all your same reasons. It's because mine resets to a previous setting that it really screws me up. When your wife hops in, she just sets the seat to her memory the first time, and she's set for the rest of her ins and outs. It always takes me twice to achieve this. Hop in, set my seat drive, get out, lock, unlock (seat moves back to position before I hopped in the first time), hop in, set my seat drive....<I>then</I> I'm good for the rest of the day.<BR>The only real work-around is to use the key to unlock the car. But trying to fit that big key into that little hole after all the cough syrup is way too much trouble.<P>The service guy just called to say my car will be ready in an hour...and one of the five items on my list this time was the remote seats, so we'll see how it goes...<P>(man I wish UBB had spell-check).<P>- Darell<P>
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Welcome Bruce to the fuzzy logic thread!<P>Doesn't matter how how many times you swap keys. If you adjust the seat, cycle the ignition, and lock the doors... the settings are memorized to that remote. However if you don't lock the door, nothing has changed & all settings are as they were. <P>You must remember that cycling the ignition & locking the car is all part of this memorization process.<P>In your scenerio(unlocked car in garage), your wife can also adjust her seat w/ her remote by pressing lock/unlock. This will bypass having to get into the car and HOLDING down the memory button. This is confirmed.<P>As far as how the remote is coded, I would agree that it is not the remote that is constantly "scanning" or "memorizing". My guess is that it is the car that sends a signal to the remote (my Sony receiver has a 2-way remote)which then codes it into memory. I've confirmed this coding appears to take place when the ignition is cycled.<P>I never tested the valet key further because in most "real world" applications... you would never use your own valet key, with your primary key & remote in your pocket.<P>It does bring up a new question that puzzles me. If you lock the doors with the key(not the remote) and you have both remotes in your hand... will both remotes be coded identically? Again not a "real world" scenerio, but I am curious. <P>If I have Darell's, Frank's, Roger's, & your remotes in my pocket and I lock the doors w/ the key... my quess would be only my remotes that have been programmed to my car would be coded.<P>Me thinks much too much time on our hands <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif"><P>See ya,<BR>Rob<P>PS - Bruce: Oui I visualize WE as well.<BR>Darell: good luck on your car, report back to us.<P><BR>
 

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Well, the only thing that I'm still sure of is that MINE don't work right!<P>I was thinking the same thing for Bruce's situation. Lock/unlock will reset his 'n her's seat positions since there is no key cycle. Of course I already know that Bruce and his wife use the same seat position, so it's moot for him anyway (he's just here to make my head hurt more).<P>Well, if they get mine working right I'll play around a bit with it, just for kicks. Hey, it's cheaper than actually driving. I'm told my car is done, but it's too late to pick it up, so we'll know tomorrow.<P>- Darell<P>
 

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It would seem logical that it is not the remote doing any memorizing; they are actually just transmitters, right? Each remote must operate on a different frequency, and the unit in the car recognizes the frequency of each remote and takes the necessary action.<P>If you get a new remote, you are not programming the remote, but programming the car receiver & computer to recognize the frequency of the new remote.<P>Right, geys??
 

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I'm sure you're right on that Roger. Modern garage door openers work the same way. You have to teach the main unit (opener or car) that you have certain remotes.<P>Well, my car is back from the dealer. Short answer for memory seats - NOT FIXED.<P>Long answer - When I took it in, I demonstrated the problem three times in a row to the service writer, the head mechanic, the VCNA After Sales Manager, the VCNA FST, and the Dealer's Customer Service manager. Everybody agreed: That can't be right. Fast-forward two days, and I'm picking up my car. There was something done on all items on my list EXCEPT the memory seats. Why? Well, because they could not reproduce the problem. Worked perfectly for them ten times in a row they say. <P>Deep breath. OK, fine. I walk to the car with the Cust. Service man, get in, start the car, adjust my seat and drive 20 feet. Get out, lock the car. We chat for several minutes. I unlock the car (all with remote) and when I open the door, OF COURSE the seat moves back to where the mechanic had it set last. I do it two more times before swearing. I told them that next time I'll stand by, ready to demonstrate the problem to anybody who cares.<P>The good news is that they managed to nail two items on my list of five. It's their best record yet!<P>Sorry to be sounding so ticked...but hey, I am.<P>- Darell<P>
 

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Is it just me, or is this WAY too complicated? I've seen other manufacturers use a system where you position everything and then use a set or memory button combined with a number. Just like the seat buttons. The remotes have numbers embossed on them (1 or 2). When you use remote #1, those settings are used. Ditto for #2.<P>I haven't received my Volvo yet, but I'm sure that I'll be fighting with this memory setup like others here. Thanks for all of the experimenting and tips!<P>-Rob <p>[This message has been edited by RobT5R (edited 02-22-2001).]
 

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Yes, the Volvo does that with buttons - but the interlock with the remote is a fancy addition to be able to recognise two drivers without the need to press the memory button if the other person has adjusted the seat. It seems to work well for most of us(!) but there is always the fall back position of using the memory buttons. There must be some reason for putting the buttons out of sight on the floor rather than on the arm rest as on my previous car - perhaps to be easily accessible before stepping into the car?
 

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If Volvo was actually thinking ergonomics by putting them low on the seat, me thinks they would have been better positioned up on the door somewhere. But you're probably right, seeing as how you need to press and hold the button until the seat is done doing it's boogie. Imagine getting in the car after your 4'-10" wife has driven it, if you couldn't easily reach the buttons.<P>A quick follow up on my particular remote memory problem: My VCNA contact just called today to tell me a story. The short version is that yesterday he had to pull over to nap in his S80, so he reclined the seat all the way. He slept, then put the seat back up and continued on his way. He locked the car at his destination, then unlocked it later that day to go home. When he opened his door, he stood there with his mouth open as his seat began the long, slow full-recline. FINALLY, he knows what I'm talking about. Seems to have been a problem for a while since our system comes from the S80, and his is an early 2000 model.<P>If they can't figure out what's going on at the next visit, I'm simply going to have them turn off the remote memory function until they can figure out what's going on. NO memory will be MUCH less hassle for me.<P>- Darell<P>
 
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