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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Has any one tried LED headlight bulbs in our cars?

I have found a few on the market that will fit in the housing. Problem is that there will be no external cooling for the bulbs.

Has anyone had luck with fan or fanless units?

Has any one found an LED bulb that will fit in the tight corner for the high beam?

They will probably give a burnt out bulb error but I read that can be fixed with a load resistor.

(I did just order a BeiLan fanless model to try since it has a 30 day return on Amazon. But I am still concerned with long time reliability))
 

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I have Nighteye H7 60W 8000LM 6500K Led conversion kit on my lowbeams. Light output is actually surprisingly good and I have not had any problems with this set (no overheating for example). They give that burnt out bulb error though but I dont care about that since it can simply be hided with a press of a button.

Here is a link on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIGHTEYE-H7...ash=item33cee01368:g:rJUAAOSw44BYNV6C&vxp=mtr

In Europe we have h7 bulb on lowbeams but Im not sure if its h11 in America?
 

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I have installed LED headlights in my 2012 S60. They have fans in them. The lights are bright and I have no errors. If you are interested, I'll have to do a little digging to find the place. They are online.
 

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There have been many threads on this,
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?212925-LED-Headlight-conversion
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?224870-New-LED-headlight-options
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?426769-Working-HID-LED-headlight-upgrade
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?199402-LED-headlights-a-safe-alternative-to-HID-s
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?411177-2005-S40-LED-Headlights

While you might see nice looking pictures, in terms of light output, beam pattern, and lumens down range LEDs are not an upgrade from halogen. The lumen rating from LED manufactures is grossly overrated, based on what the emitter rating rather than what it is actually being driven at. Heat is enemy #1 for LEDs and keeping them in an sealed enclosure with the heatsink so close to the back cover will wreck their lifespan if you keep your high beams on for any amount of time.

They do look nice, if that's what you are after. But HID - 50W and/or D1S conversion - is the only way to go for increased nighttime visibility.

BTW:
I have installed LED headlights in my 2012 S60. They have fans in them. The lights are bright and I have no errors. If you are interested, I'll have to do a little digging to find the place. They are online.
Different headlight monitoring circuit in the S60 CEM so this is not applicable to P1 S40 / V50 / C30 etc. See https://www.skbowe.com/a/issues/
 

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They do look nice, if that's what you are after. But HID - 50W and/or D1S conversion - is the only way to go for increased nighttime visibility.
Light output of these Led bulbs are actually very similar to 35w xenon conversion kits. But with leds you dont have to worry about the windshield wipers going crazy etc.
 

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Light output of these Led bulbs are actually very similar to 35w xenon conversion kits. But with leds you dont have to worry about the windshield wipers going crazy etc.
Yes, WMM is less of a concern without the ignitor, but LED supplies will fail just as quickly as HID supplies running on PWM, especially DRL PWM.

But for light output, I'm sorry, they don't! Don't get me wrong, I love LEDs - I've been playing with high powered LEDs since before they were cool. I wrote the LED conversion guide. But for the same reason that HIDs are sub-optimal in halogen reflectors (including the ellipsoidal reflectors within our projectors), the angular emission profile of high powered LEDs are fundamentally incompatible with reflector systems designed for linear lamps. Yes, beautiful pure white light comes out of the front of the projector and ends up on the road. But the throw - the actual visibility at a distance - is determined exclusively by the focal point of that ellipsoidal projector hitting the shield and focusing through the lens. Only a small fraction of the LED's phosphor can be in that focal point, and the rest of the light is directed in non-useful directions (usually, very close to the car) which can make it look brighter, but in reality, it's wasted light.

There is a reason that cars that come with LED headlights have funky looking optics - the monolithic large diameter projector is about the worst possible design for a large surface area emitter. Much more efficient to use a lens-per-emitter and focus each where it is needed.

I've got nothing against doing LED conversions for aesthetics, but please don't claim that the useful light output retrofitting an LED into a halogen projector is comparable to a 35W HID bulb in that application. I guarantee I am the biggest LED nut on these boards, and if it were, I wouldn't be wasting time helping folks do HIDs.

EDIT: Somewhere I have the license fob to Synopsys LightTools 7, if I can dig it up I'll do a few simulations
 

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+1 to above, you just simply cant get proper light output because of the optic of our projectors. I have followed every thread on people experimenting with LEDs and most of them - decided to revert back to halogens or do a proper HID conversion. HAve seen one or two LED outputs where very good and expensive bulbs were used and users spent some time with proper adjustment, but even then the light output was inferior to what you can get with HIDs. ANd unfortunately, in most cases you get something like this:



thats actual S40 with LED thrown in.
If you are interested in blinding people or just to have "cool looking" lights, LED is the way to go, but if you want an actual light output improvement - go HID/projector retrofit, check out theshadow27's skbowe website to learn more about WMM issue and counteracting it.

as for LEDs in high beam - because of its nature, you are welcome to experiment with it as you wont have issue with blinding anyone anyway. Have no clue if its sensible or not and how good.bad it may be. The light pattern on high beam is completely different and light allignment is somehing like this \ / . LED may provide more light output but will be surprised if light pattern is held at all.If you decide to try, please share experience.

ps - HID in long beams is not good either, I tried, cant recommend it at all unless you have super quick igniters and proper bulbs.
 

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Well.. I have been using LED bulbs in my 2004.5 s40 for almost 2 years and I used to have 35w HID kit before that so I know what I am talking about. And every time I take my LEDs off my car (MOT for example) the stock halogen bulbs are a slight downgrade for light output. I have tested multiple different LED kits and some of those have had worse beam patterns and light outputs than others.

But for example that nighteye kit that I mentioned has very straight and linear beam pattern (almost identical to stock halogens) and if you adjust it correctly you wont be blinding anyone. If you really want to signifficantly improve your visuability I would still highly recommend you to invest in proper HID conversion. On the other hand LED conversion kits arent that expensive so maybe give them a try and decide yourself!
 

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Well.. I have been using LED bulbs in my 2004.5 s40 for almost 2 years and I used to have 35w HID kit before that so I know what I am talking about. And every time I take my LEDs off my car (MOT for example) the stock halogen bulbs are a slight downgrade for light output. I have tested multiple different LED kits and some of those have had worse beam patterns and light outputs than others.

But for example that nighteye kit that I mentioned has very straight and linear beam pattern (almost identical to stock halogens) and if you adjust it correctly you wont be blinding anyone. If you really want to signifficantly improve your visuability I would still highly recommend you to invest in proper HID conversion. On the other hand LED conversion kits arent that expensive so maybe give them a try and decide yourself!
Out of curiosity, what made you go from HID to LED? As I have said, I have seen examples of proper LED installation so it can be done, but even best ones seem to be inferior to output of HID kit. Do you maybe have any comparison pics from your installation?

Edit - interesting what you said, "slight downgrade". For me, when changing from HID back to H7 (even very good Osram NB Ultimate) there is literally like 50% difference for me, feels like driving on 1 light only. Just btw.
 

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Out of curiosity, what made you go from HID to LED? As I have said, I have seen examples of proper LED installation so it can be done, but even best ones seem to be inferior to output of HID kit. Do you maybe have any comparison pics from your installation?
I heard too many horror stories of the wmm breaking and other problems. I also watched few youtube videos about LED kits and decided to try them out. :)

Maybe my HID kit (35w) wasn't the best quality one (bought from ebay), but from my experience the light output of my current LEDs are very similar, beam pattern is slightly wider though. I dont have any pictures of course to prove this and I cant take any at the moment, because it wont get dark enough here in Finland at summer :(

Edit: Just to clarify, light output of these LEDs are far from good, but comparing to the appallingly bad stock halogen low beams, you can live with the light output of the LEDs.
 

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I heard too many horror stories of the wmm breaking and other problems. I also watched few youtube videos about LED kits and decided to try them out. :)

Maybe my HID kit (35w) wasn't the best quality one (bought from ebay), but from my experience the light output of my current LEDs are very similar, beam pattern is slightly wider though. I dont have any pictures of course to prove this and I cant take any at the moment, because it wont get dark enough here in Finland at summer :(
No worries, just wondering :) WMM is a force to be reckoned with, heh, true, but I suppose as long as you dont dazzle other users, you can drive on whatever you are happy with.
cheers
 

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I heard too many horror stories of the wmm breaking and other problems. I also watched few youtube videos about LED kits and decided to try them out. :)
Yes, there are lots of horror stories about the WMM, but this comes from a lack of knowledge and information. Just think - for thousands of years people were helpless against smallpox and polio. Then we discovered that these horrible diseases are caused by microscopic viruses and, with a bit of vaccination and quarantine there have been completely eliminated. Scientific method FTW.

Although it's no where near as important as the polio vaccine, I hope my research into the P1 electrical system will make HIDs less scary.

BTW, not everything you see on youtube is a good idea ;).

If you are interested in blinding people or just to have "cool looking" lights, LED is the way to go, but if you want an actual light output improvement - go HID/projector retrofit, check out theshadow27's skbowe website to learn more about WMM issue and counteracting it.
That website, by the way, is https://www.skbowe.com

Maybe my HID kit (35w) wasn't the best quality one (bought from ebay), but from my experience the light output of my current LEDs are very similar, beam pattern is slightly wider though. I dont have any pictures of course to prove this and I cant take any at the moment, because it wont get dark enough here in Finland at summer :(
And it probably wasn't working correctly due to the PWM. Your eye is a very bad judge of the output and effectiveness of a headlight system, just as is it difficult to judge HP increases without a Dyno. Other than setting up a sequence of targets staggered at known distances away in total darkness and comparing photographs, the only reliable way to check is with a lux meter and calibrated screen.

I know some of this sounds silly, but the purpose of headlights is to see stuff down the road in time to stop and avoid it. If light is not focused correctly there will be a bright spot close to the car and less light going down the road. This causes two problems: (1) there is less light reflected from objects in the distance, and (2) the close bright light significantly reduces the effectiveness of your night vision, making it even harder to see the distant dimly illuminated object.

as for LEDs in high beam - because of its nature, you are welcome to experiment with it as you wont have issue with blinding anyone anyway. Have no clue if its sensible or not and how good.bad it may be. The light pattern on high beam is completely different and light allignment is somehing like this \ / . LED may provide more light output but will be surprised if light pattern is held at all.If you decide to try, please share experience.
I agree for the high beam the distribution is much less important, and it is a straight relay to the battery in the CEM so there are no electrical issues with the conversion (unlike low beam). Of course you still need to drill another hole and find a place for the power supply (or cram it inside and sacrifice life span).

Personally I use 9011/HIR1 bulbs that fit directly in the 9005 socket. These are good for around 3000 lumens and last about 150 hours. I haven't had to replace them since 2008 and use my high beams quite a bit. I will say with the extra heat they tend to kill cheap LED city lights very quickly. I don't really care what color my high beams are as long as they are as bright as possible and work when I need them, but to each their own!

ps - HID in long beams is not good either, I tried, cant recommend it at all unless you have super quick igniters and proper bulbs.
Right - that's why bi-xenon projectors have the crazy mechanical flapper rather than igniting a separate bulb. Now there are HID aircraft wing marker bulbs/ballasts that are rated for strobe, and they are typically in 150w / 20,000 lumen range :eek:. Shame they are 28VDC or 400Hz AC.

Edit: Just to clarify, light output of these LEDs are far from good, but comparing to the appallingly bad stock halogen low beams, you can live with the light output of the LEDs.
That's what I mean by aesthetic purposes only - when you can "live with it" rather than it being a significant functional improvement. I don't care what you do with your car, as long as it's clear that LEDs aren't the same (or close) to HIDs in terms of light output from the halogen projector.

Honestly though, with the winters in Finland you are probably better off getting a set of HID auxiliary ("rally style") lights on a separate switch and putting whatever you want in the low beams. There was afactory accessory in the EUR markets that looks like this:


Also some folks here have done crazy things with LED light bars (which is the correct way to use LEDs - individual lens per emitter) that are VERY powerful.
 

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Right - that's why bi-xenon projectors have the crazy mechanical flapper rather than igniting a separate bulb. Now there are HID aircraft wing marker bulbs/ballasts that are rated for strobe, and they are typically in 150w / 20,000 lumen range :eek:. Shame they are 28VDC or 400Hz AC.

On the sidenote of above, I actually have seen few of the applications with using of standard automotive (but OEM) ballasts and igniters that works almost instantly and those worked impressively good. One of the fella used setup from Audi A4, that in Europe had single, bixenon projector in headlamp. With no physical halogen bulb present, they had to use (I think Hella's) quick-start ballasts, so those worked perfectly as long beam aftermarket setup. There was literally like half a second delay between engaging the flash and apx 80% brightness.
Expensive setup thought, and a lot of fiddling with wiring, but doable :)
 

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My main point and what the VictorVDC was asking is: Yes you can go with LEDs and they are definitely not a downgrade from factory halogens. Myself, I dont see any point of doing the "proper" HID swap, basically due to the cost and the time and effort it takes to do properly. Of course if you have time, money, interest and skill to do that, definitely go that way! If you only want better looks and dont want to sacrifice the light output of the stock halogens, LEDs are the way to go.

But for me, high beams are much more important anyways. And the LED bar that theshadow27 mentioned above is a great option to extend your visuability in the dark winter nights.
 

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In the winter, I would encourage you to grab a DSLR and a photometer and prove me wrong ;) Until then, I'm tired of going in circles, so for the record I'll leave it at this...

My main point and what the VictorVDC was asking is: Yes you can go with LEDs and they <strike>are definitely not a downgrade from factory halogens.</strike>
I do not agree with this statement.

An LED H11/H7 conversion is a "downgrade" from the factory 55w halogens when evaluating the following criteria:

- ease of installation, replacement, and parts availability
- cost
- night time visibility / performance
- reliability
- legality

The criteria where an LED H11 or H7 replacement improves are:

+ higher color temperature (white/blue) looks nicer aka aesthetics
+ more lumens (but less down range)
+ lower power usage (-20W/side == +0.053 HP)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
LED bulbs are not COOL

I received my LED lamps from Amazon. I bought two 8000 lm sets , one with fan and one fanless. After my testing they are being returned.

First installing them they appeared at least bright as my halogens with the same beam pattern. But after driving for a while (with one halogen and one LED) the LEDs were noticeably not as bright.

I picked up a light meter and did some testing and here is the interesting stuff.
(LX at about 7 feet when cold)
Stock H11 1350 LM --- 1800 lx
Belan H11 4000LM--- 2500 lx
Rover (fan) H11 4000Lm ---- 2600 lx

After a while heat builds up in the housing and this happens.
Stock H11 1350 LM --- 1800 lx (no change)
Belan H11 4000LM--- 1200 lx
Rover H11 4000Lm ---- 1800 lx

I am going back to my original H9 conversion
H9 2100 LM---- 2700 lx (hot or cold)
With that and the 9011 HIR high beam conversion I believe that is as good as I am going to get without major modifications.

Thanks for the feedback . I was going to put the fanless units in my fog lights since they are a bit brighter then the stock H11 (and I don’t trust the housing with H9s) but there is not enough clearance for the fins.
I have some cheapo ($6 a pair ) 20 watt 2100 lm coming from Hong Kong which I may try in the fog lights but they may just end up in the trash.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
H9 bulbs in the driving /fog lamps

Oh BTW had anyone ever done the H11 to H9 conversion on the fog lamps?
Can they take the extra heat?

(H9 Long Life bulbs are hard to find but Memotronics Electronics Supply has them for a good price.)
 

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I received my LED lamps from Amazon. I bought two 8000 lm sets , one with fan and one fanless. After my testing they are being returned.

First installing them they appeared at least bright as my halogens with the same beam pattern. But after driving for a while (with one halogen and one LED) the LEDs were noticeably not as bright.

....
Thanks for sharing! interesting stuff, sorry those didnt work for you but unfortunately just proved the point.
Just to clarify - is the Lm numbers (4000) stated by manufacturer or actually measured by your meter? Or you measured only lx output?
Interesting that heat buildup affect those LEDs so much, wouldnt think fan unit will cause problem.
 

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Honestly though, with the winters in Finland you are probably better off getting a set of HID auxiliary ("rally style") lights on a separate switch and putting whatever you want in the low beams. There was afactory accessory in the EUR markets that looks like this:


Also some folks here have done crazy things with LED light bars (which is the correct way to use LEDs - individual lens per emitter) that are VERY powerful.
I'm assuming this will fit the S40 as well, correct? I want one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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