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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

I went through a few front sub-frame bushing over time and here is my 2c that may help others make better decisions. As good as this forum is, it has changed the membership over time (getting younger and less family people) and because feedback is subjective I ended up making some bad choices over the years that according to the advice received should have been great.

Here are the options for bushings with comments:

1. R OEM PN:3507923. When new they are Okish for street use but not for performance and when old they are bad. They also get tired quickly and require #3.

2. XC90 OEM bushings PN:8678497. Because of the XC90 larger mass they are stiffer than ours but not by a lot.

3. ipd poly insert kit. They can be used as band aid for worn out OEM bushings (either #1 or #2 above) or better with new bushings for increased performance with little loss of ride comfort or increase of engine vibrations transmitted to the cabin. I like the difference they make keeping the front end tight but civil. The drawback here is the install. If your bushings are in good condition get ready to fight them getting them all the way in. Once in there is no way to get them out w/o removing the bushings but that's actually good.

4. Kaphlenke Delrin bushings (or equivalent). These are the high performance bushings. Get these ONLY if you are racing your car or if you like your car to rattle like a tin can, like a Honda Civic from the '90. No joke, these are very bad for your comfort. You will feel every pebble and every crack on the road along with increase engine vibration. And that is even when suspension is in Comfort mode! They are awful in this regard and change the character of your Volvo from a touring car to a bare bone racer car. If you are after that go ahead but I plan on removing them the first time I drop the frame. In the plus side they are easier to install than the OEM and if you race then that's what you need.


Here are the options listed by what you want to end up with:

1. Just bring the car in working condition because you want to sell it or you want the most comfortable ride or you want the cheapest fix - get the R OEM ones ($40/set aftermarket)
2. GT - Grand tour car (what our cars original design was) - get the OEM V70/XC90 with ipd inserts; this is the most expensive ($150/set) and the most labor intensive
2. Race - get the Kaphlenke ($140/set); the easiest to install

Hope this sets the record straight about bushings for our cars. You may want to add it to the sticky.

As for my next setup: XC90 bushings with ipd inserts. That will give me longer life and performance than the R bushings but with added performance of the ipd inserts.
 

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I totally disagree withtourtake on delrin subframe bushings. I have them and have had other cars with solid poly bushings etc that did rattle and my Ris nothing like that. Its very smooth and handles extremely well.

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Delrin bushings were amazing and way better than tired OEM parts. Before I had them installed, my 4C lived in comfort mode. Now, I can keep the 4C in sport mode, and occasionally get it into advanced depending on the road condition. Of course, the disclaimer is that I've never experienced new OEM bushings, and my other car is a Mini which has a firm suspension as well.
 

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I just put some delrins in three week as ago along with ipd track sways and 19” rims, and while the ride has firmed up, it’s not gained in harshness.


2007 V70R Ti Grey Nordkap GT, 2008 C30R-Design Black M66
 

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Soooo how is this feedback not subjective and misleading?

I have delrin bushings in my s60r and they improved the handling greatly. They did not add any harshness to the ride, though I cannot comment on vibration for this car because it had poly and solid mounts everywhere and single mass flywheel and all that race car crap before I put these in. But it didn’t make vibration any worse. And it improved the ride as far as crashing.

On my V70R (p80) the delrin bushings improved the handling greatly and added no vibration what so ever. It did not make it crash at all. These bushings actually do the opposite, they made it so it doesn’t crash as bad. And a 00R kinda rides like shiit to begin with, this car is more mild, Koni yellows, ipd bars, oem Volvo strut brace and euro Nivos, oem ohlins going in soon . But the only poly mount is the iPd top engine mount.
On both cars, the subframes have been out, every bushing replaced, every ball joint, engine and trans mount replaced with oem, suspension parts etc. each car is meticulously maintained and not all worn out either. And I have nice tires on both cars.
Maybe you have bad engine mounts or something else going on that is leading to all the vibration and harshness. I wouldn’t have put the bushings in my wagon if they made it more uncomfortable because that is more of a stock OEM+ car and I like driving it. The rattle stuff bothers me bad, I don’t even like closing the door on my girlfriends brand new VW Jetta, it sounds like it’s made out of recycled soda cans like a jap car when you close the door lol. Awful.


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I have two v70r's. One has oem bushings at 240,000 and the other has fresh delrin bushings.
The delrin are much much better, I don't notice harsh vibrations. I do notice lots of vibrations in the rotten bushings though.
 

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FYI, the C70's have a solid sub-frame. Do they rattle like a tin can? Harsh ride that so many complain about? I think not. I too have a set of the Delrin bushings on my 850 and they force the suspension to work as designed. At that point shock, spring and tire selection is the key to your comfort level. I am very happy with the noticeable increase in stability and decisive steering.
 

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Sorry to join in the group bashing, but I'm adding my positive experience to the pro delrin camp.
I did a full sweep of power flex, IPD sways and delrin all in one swoop, which I will admit leaves me unable to scientifically isolate the effect of each individually, but it now feels far more precise and confidence inspiring.
I now can feel exactly what it's doing, rather than the rubber-ised 'approximate' feel that they had before.

Now when I dropped in the BC Racing DS coilovers I got a harsh ride at low speeds, but that was me not asking the right questions about the trade offs were to their new design
 

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doru, very informative on the different bushings available for our caRs. Do you happen to have other suspension mods as well that may be influencing your answer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The only change at the same time was a brand new LF strut and replacing the links for rear LCA sensors (not the sensors) that were getting very stiff.
The SUM was adjusted by the dealer after that (or at least they said they did and I paid for it).
 

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If delrin makes a p80/p2 atrocious to live with due to NVH the motors hitting the subframe because of collapsed mounts. Happens by age as much as miles. If they have not been replaced, the hydraulics and passenger lower support mount absolutely need to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
^That may be true but that does not explain why it feels so strong inside the cabin when going over rough patches or very shallow (0.5") holes in the road or relatively small pebbles. I do feel everything that's happening under the front tires. The rear is unchanged.
 

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I welcome any discourse about mods - popular or otherwise.
Just because someone said somethin' on the interweb doesn't make it true

I still haven't been bothered to do the Bob Villa mod yet.....
 

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^That may be true but that does not explain why it feels so strong inside the cabin when going over rough patches or very shallow (0.5") holes in the road or relatively small pebbles. I do feel everything that's happening under the front tires. The rear is unchanged.
That’s just 4C.

Chassis rigidity =/= ride quality.

Starts to get into tires and unsprung weight and dampening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm not trying to debate how the suspension works. I'm just making a comparison on how the front of the car feels between before and after the change.
 

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I'm not trying to debate how the suspension works. I'm just making a comparison on how the front of the car feels between before and after the change.
And it sounds like you've tried more combinations than most of us, and to be honest if we got the results you reported we too may have swapped back - thankfully most of us didn't, and liked the change.
 

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Well, I am in my 40's with a family of 5, I have Yother Delrin subframe bushings in my V70R and kaphlenke in the XC90 (would have been Yother too as I like that design better but they were discontinued).

I didn't tell my wife anything when I installed the Delrin, done at the same time I changed all engine mounts and refreshed LCA's with poly in the front position, along with an iPd sway bar.

She didn't say a thing...

I drove it and there was zero increase in NVH, just razor sharp steering. Love it love it love it. Will put in Delrin rears if I get the chance...
 

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Had them in my V70R, drove normal with a more connected feel. No notice in additional harshness. No vibration.


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