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Can we at least meet halfway? what are your criteria and needs/wants? what models/motors/transmissions are you considering? Budget? Is this a new purchase? Have you driven both, and if so do you have any impressions?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I was looking at a used wagon. I can probably afford one that is a 1999 or a 2000. As far as transmission goes, I can drive either manual or auto but will probably have to go with auto b/c my wife can't drive a manual. I am interested in the 2.4T (but am curious about the T5). Basically, I am looking for a more family oriented vehicle that has some utility to it without getting the poor SUV mileage. As always, I am looking for a car that is very reliable, safe, gets good gas mileage, and can be drive for a long time. <BR>I have done a little homework on both cars through consumer reports and have drive the jetta and the passat. Jetta is a little small in the backseat (I am about 6'3) and this concerns me in regards to passengers. However, does get better mileage than the V70. Drove the Passat 1.8T with 170 HP. I was concerned about the lack of low end torque but liked the size.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fishhead:<BR><B>Why should I consider the V70? Let me hear what you have to say.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You gotta be kidding, right? Comparing the...JETTA wagon with the V70? I can see, perhaps, comparing the Passat with the Volvo but the....JETTA??? And, on top of that, you are 6'3"? You are not even comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing apples to WATERMELONS. I don't want to be presumptious but you are obviously a "payment" or "price" buyer...Which means that the V70 will come in last unless you can find a previously enjoyed one, a.k.a. pre-owned. No VW model will give you the overall roominess, versatility, safety and overall performance of a V70 2.4T or (even better) T5.<P>The VWs are pretty nice cars, especially with the 1.8T engine but they will feel slow, overall, when compared to a 2.4T or a T5. Plus the style (I know, I know, that stuff is purely subjective but....the truth it the truth!) of either VW wagon leaves a lot to be desired.<P>Bite the [financial] bullet and get yourself a nice, pre-owned 2.4T or T5. <P><BR>Yannis<P>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You're right. I am a "price" buyer due the fact that I can not justify buying something overly expensive that is just going to depreciate to nothing over time. However, I am not cheap. You get what you pay for but I still can not justify buying a new car that costs about 1/3 of what my house costs. Definately not a payment buyer, you can make a payment what ever you want it to be with financing. <P>Anyways, I was questioning a Volvo due to its durability, safety, fit, efficiency, and reliability. I was looking through the Consumer Report buyers guides and noticed that the 1999 wagon had some electrical issues. However, as of now, the 2000 and on had all excellent ratings. I was also concerned about fuel efficiency. Speaking of that, what does the T5 get for city and highway miles?<P>Anyway, I know that the Volvo sounds like a logical choice. It has more room, drives as nice as or better than the Jetta/Passat, has similar crash test ratings, probably holds its value better (even though it will eventually worth nothing), and appears to be incredibly durable (average life is 18.6 years). Plus, my wife wants to get one. <P>What more can you tell me (about the vehicle that is)?<P>Thanks, <BR>Chuck
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fishhead:<BR><B> However, I am not cheap.</B><P>Never implied that.<P><B> You get what you pay for but I still can not justify buying a new car that costs about 1/3 of what my house costs.</B><P>True (about the "you get what you pay for) but if a car costs about 1/3 of what your house costs, then that particular car is not the right car for you, if you want to be financially sensible. Unlss you have no other responsibilities, everything has been paid for...then go for it! I would love to own CLK AMG55 but that is roughly 1/3 of what my house costs...can I afford to buy it? Sure...would I be crazy to do so...Sure! <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/wink.gif"><P><B>Definitely not a payment buyer, you can make a payment what ever you want it to be with financing.</B><P>Not necessarily true as purchase price is an integral part of a monthly payment. <P><B>Anyways, I was questioning a Volvo due to its durability, safety, fit, efficiency, and reliability.</B><P>You got all that and more with the new generation V70s.<P><BR><B>I was looking through the Consumer Report buyers guides and noticed that the 1999 wagon had some electrical issues.</B><P>WHO? The Consumer Toastmaster experts? Definitely take that with a grain of salt. There are many cars on their recommended list that truly S..K, and also many cars on their "don't" list that are not bad. They are stupid enough to disgrace the 1999 S80s but not honest enough to make a note on their <B><I>2002</I></B> issue that the car has had stellar results after MY2000. I live with these cars every day and I will tell you to, honestly, do not be afraid in buying a Volvo. There were some years that were tougher than others but the new V70s, S60s and late S80s are tremendous cars to own!<P><B>I was also concerned about fuel efficiency. Speaking of that, what does the T5 get for city and highway miles?</B><P>You are right to be concerned about that and the T5 will be the worst of all the models you are looking at. Don't get me wrong; it is not a gas hog at all but it is not a 4-cylinder Jetta or Passat. And since you will have a lot of extra power I am sure that you will feel "inclined" to use it! If you have a heavy foot avoid any turbo cars (even the VWs) as you will see increased fuel consumption. If you don't care, then go for it! On my T5, I get (even with my ECU upgrade) 17 to 18 in the city, about 21 to 22 mixed driving and when we go on a trip, even if I sustain avg. speeds of more than 75mph, I will never fall below 26 mpg; going up to NY or down to Washington, I have averaged as high as 29mpg even when I was pushing the car forcertain periods of the trip.<P><B>Anyway, I know that the Volvo sounds like a logical choice. It has more room, drives as nice as or better than the Jetta/Passat, has similar crash test ratings</B><P>SIMILAR? Er, I would rather be in ANY Volvo than a Jetta (pretty safe car, especially since the Side Airbags became standard but not a Volvo, by all means). Even the Passat won't give you the full spectrum of safety that Volvo does (Inflatable side Curtains, etc.). Do the VWs have pretensioners on ALL 5 3-point seatbelts? Because Volvos do.<P>What more can you tell me (about the vehicle that is)?<P>I believe I, personally, covered all the great points of why one should own a V70; overall a wholesome car that combines tremendous safety, lots of room, great ease to operate (therefore, pleasurable car to own), excellent versatility for whatever you want to do plus reasonably good performance that can be upgraded for a fairly cheap price (in case you are interested to get more out of it).<P>Good luck!<P><BR>Yannis<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>
 

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make sure if you are going used you get a VW over 97 (98+) if you are going with the PASSAT. <A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95016.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95016.htm</A> <P>over 99 (00+) jetta<BR> <A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97018.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97018.htm</A> <P>but even the 02 jetta isn't as safe as the 93 volvo :|<BR> <A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99001_2001.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99001_2001.htm</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm</A> <P>head restraints VW <A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_vw.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_vw.htm</A> <P>head restraints Volvo! <A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_volvo.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_volvo.htm</A> <P>God I love this company <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif"><P>
 

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BTW, I have a '97 850 wagon, and i wouldn't trade it for any VW, I love my volvo!<P>My mom had a '97 VW cabrio, and it was a great little car, but by no means is it as nice as my 850. And my 850 is base model. No leather, no power seats, no keyless entry. Still a great car.<P>
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This has turned into a very productive discussion. I am willing (and able) to pay around $20,000 for a used Volvo (preferably a little less). How feasable is this for a newer model (1999-2000)? If so, what array of accessories/options should I expect? If not, what is a reasonable price for a used 1999-2000 with lower mileage (for example, a lease turn in)?<P>Thanks
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fishhead:<BR><B>This has turned into a very productive discussion. I am willing (and able) to pay around $20,000 for a used Volvo (preferably a little less). How feasable is this for a newer model (1999-2000)? If so, what array of accessories/options should I expect? If not, what is a reasonable price for a used 1999-2000 with lower mileage (for example, a lease turn in)?<P>Thanks </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't see why others have to convince you in to a Volvo.<BR>I am not driving the car for you altough i'd love to welcome another Volvo driver.<BR>Most techniques used in both brands come from the same suppliers and quality doesn't differ that much.<BR>It's mostly a matter of taste and personal liking.<BR>If you buy a Volvo and don't like it after a few months you can always say that those bastards at SwedeSpeed talked you in to it but it's your money being invested.<BR>Volvo drivers believe like any other brand driver that their chosen product is the best it gives.<BR>I drive Volvo because I dislike anything VAG in a severe manner and because the Volvo gives more room on shoulder height.... <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/biggrin.gif"><P>
 

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Johann makes a lot of good points, because the buyer is the person who is stuck with the car at the end no matter which brand it may be or what other people might tell you. <P>All cars have their positive and negative aspects, but it is really the purchasers prerogative to determine what they value the most, in a car.<P>If it were my $20k dollars, I would try and pick up a really nice used/certified 1998 V70R or 1999 V70 T5:<P> <IMG SRC="http://ebay-images.autotrader.com/images/auction/2002/06/05/3424757/01_YV1LV62D3X2585733_1023321990808.jpg"> <P> <IMG SRC="http://ebay-images.autotrader.com/images/auction/2002/06/05/3424757/02_YV1LV62D3X2585733_1023321434525.jpg"> <P>Or even something like this if you need AWD, a 1999 or 2000 V70XC SE:<P> <IMG SRC="http://users.rkis.com/photos/CG2531/pfa.JPG"> <P> <IMG SRC="http://users.rkis.com/photos/CG2531/dash.JPG"> <P>With these kinds of cars, you really don't have to worry about options, because they basically come fully loaded and the power should be way more than enough to please.<P>I think you might have a hard time finding a 2nd generation V70 below $20k, but I am not exactly sure.<P>-Drew
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InDy:<BR><B><BR>I think you might have a hard time finding a 2nd generation V70 below $20k, but I am not exactly sure.<P>-Drew</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly.<P>Fishead. What's the most dangerous thing I do every day? No. It's not getting out from the wrong side of the bed. It's getting in my car.<P> <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif"><P>I ain't rich. But I made sure to budget in enough money for safe, solid cars that will protect me and my family for years to come. It's all about priorities.<P>I'm not here to convince you of anything. But I do recommend listening to your wife. <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/wink.gif"><BR><P>
 

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You can get a V70 on ebay for around 20K. Just look for a few weeks, you will find what you are looking for. <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif"><P> <A HREF="http://www.ebay.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.ebay.com</A> <P>
 

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I drove a 1998 V70R that had 114,000 miles and it felt better than my 850 with 80,000. They new supension they used must have been way nicer <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif"><P>v70r <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1837930701" TARGET=_blank>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1837930701</A> <P>v70t5 <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1839189459" TARGET=_blank>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1839189459</A> <P>v70 <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1838223924" TARGET=_blank>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1838223924</A> <P>
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for all of the information folks. I am waiting for the local dealer to get some used wagons in for test drives. Unfortunately, this dealer does not carry a large inventory of used vehicles. Maybe I will have to travel to get a wagon.<P>I do have one more question. What does the Certified Vehicle Warranty cover on a used wagon. Anyone answer? Yannis - can you help?<P>Thanks, <BR>Chuck
 

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<A HREF="http://new.volvocars.com/preowned/certified/cert_warranty.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://new.volvocars.com/preowned/certified/cert_warranty.asp</A> <P>
 

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chuck, if there is a CarMax within driving distance, they will probably have VWs and Volvos on the lot and you could compare them side by side.<P>Here in the D.C. area you can get a '99 V70 GLT in the low $20s, '98 V70Rs are around $25k and '00 V70Rs are around $31k. If you search on AutoTrader you'll turn up a fair amount.<P>I also agree with others, it's a personal preference. You may feel the Volvo is a little big to drive when compared to the VW.<P>I don't think you will really go wrong with either manufacturer if you stick with '98+ from either one. Have them gone over to make sure they are not rebuilds and have a legit title. good luck.<P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 83caddy16v:<BR><B>chuck, if there is a CarMax within driving distance, they will probably have VWs and Volvos on the lot and you could compare them side by side.<P>Here in the D.C. area you can get a '99 V70 GLT in the low $20s, '98 V70Rs are around $25k and '00 V70Rs are around $31k. If you search on AutoTrader you'll turn up a fair amount.<P>I also agree with others, it's a personal preference. You may feel the Volvo is a little big to drive when compared to the VW.<P>I don't think you will really go wrong with either manufacturer if you stick with '98+ from either one. Have them gone over to make sure they are not rebuilds and have a legit title. good luck.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>CARMAX cannot not certify their Volvos. <P><BR>Yannis<P><P>
 

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I love it when Yannis gets worked up over VW products! Seriously hough, I worked with him as well as sold VW and Audis. The Jetta wagon is not a comparable car to the v70. You'd be better off considering the Passat/A4/A6 trio rather than a Jetta. Downside to the A6 is a little slugish on power, but you're getting the best all wheel drive system put in a car. Even Yannis can't top this! (We used to go back and forth over this at work) For a more sporty ride than the v70 try the A4 Avant, but don't look for much in the way of passenger space or cargo room. I really like that car a lot, but if you're inclination is to go with more utility, the v70 is really the way to go. the best part about the v70's is that they made more of theses cars than Audi wagons or Passats. A good number of them are coming off of lease and you should be able to find a 99 v70 GLT with some additional warranty for right around $20 to $21,000 A new body style 2001 2.4t moderately outfitted will run about $28000 with about 16 to 20,000 miles. Like Yannis, I work with these cars everyday and can reccomend them. This is coming from a guy that races an 87 GTI, and has personally owned 11 VW's. My daily driver now is a 96 850 wagon with 172,000 miles... basically them same powerplant as in the current cars. In terms of bang for the buck, a pre owned Volvo is a great deal. The only other wagon that I could see in the field is a SAAB 95. The SAABs are usually depreciation nightmares, therfore make great used car buys. The wagons have been holding their value much better than the sedans. Be careful though, the SAAB market is fickle and that resale value may not be there when you're ready to sell. SAAB parts are also generally more expensive than Volvo or VW/Audi. JOE<BR>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JOESELLSVOLVO:<BR><B> I love it when Yannis gets worked up over VW products!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>WHO? MOI???? <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/huh.gif"> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Seriously hough, I worked with him as well as sold VW and Audis.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What's up "part-time"?! <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/jump.gif"> Great to see you here!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Downside to the A6 is a little slugish on power </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>SLUGGISH??? <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/viper.gif"> You are being very polite my friend! I was going to write "DOG" but that would be a true injustice to MY dog who is lightning quick (a male, 103-lb. Doberman)...<P><BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>but you're getting the best all wheel drive system put in a car. Even Yannis can't top this! (We used to go back and forth over this at work)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's debatable, my friend! Hehehe! As you can probably get a viscous-coupling AWD Volvo stuck somewhere, I can tell/show you two or three quick ways on how to get your Quattro stuck! And that does not involve driving the car into a mud pit! You know what I mean!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>This is coming from a guy that races an 87 GTI</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh yeah! <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/arms.gif"> The King of all Races! <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/notworthy.gif"> You are "da man"!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The only other wagon that I could see in the field is a SAAB 95. The SAABs are usually depreciation nightmares, therfore make great used car buys. The wagons have been holding their value much better than the sedans. Be careful though, the SAAB market is fickle and that resale value may not be there when you're ready to sell. SAAB parts are also generally more expensive than Volvo or VW/Audi. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now, now Joe...why did you have to ruin it for us and introduce the "SOB STORY"? <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/mecry.gif"> <BR> <IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/2.gif"> <P>Pieces of...crappolo!!!<P>Talk to you soon!<P><BR>Yannis<P><BR>
 
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