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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<A HREF="http://www.remarcable.net/misc/legacy_outback/gallery/video/volvo_filmen.mov" TARGET="_blank">http://www.remarcable.net/misc/legacy_outback/gallery/video/volvo_filmen.mov</a><p>And to think that Volvo copied the Outback style on their XC... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emcrook.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>JF<br>V70 owner
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

That's an interesting video. It would appear that the Volvo in the video is not AWD, though we know all XCs are. I'm guessing a couple of things. First, that's NOT a Haldex equipped XC70, but a viscous couplign equipped V70XC. Why?<p>Well, presuming the awd system is hooked up, which it probably was, you'll note that they don't really gun it. They keep the rotation of the tires below a certain speed. Why? <p>A Viscous Coupling is a differential that adjusts power to the rear (where all the weight is in climbing, especially with that trailer hooked up). The diff is activated by the viscosity of the fluid in the diff breaking down and thus causing the diff to transfer power to the rear. You can see it activating slightly in parts of the video, but they very much control the speed of the wheels to keep it below the point where the diff redistributes.<p>You would think they would get a more spectacular video if, once they lost traction, they gun the car and kick up a lot of mud, digging in and showing it not going anywhere. However, if they had, the VC probably would have engaged and the Volvo would have climbed the hill.<p>Had that been a car with the new Haldex, it would have been a different story. Note that Motor Trend just named the XC90 with the same Haldex system SUV of the year. It was able to traverse similar grades in their testing where cars like the Hummer H2 needed to be put in 4wd Low. <p>Finally, I think this video was sponsored by somebody trying to sell Subarus. Why? The subaru chase car in the background in the shot was the first tip off. The end where they drive off in the Outback was the second. <p>Both are AWD, and technically, the AWD system in the Outback appears to be more responsive in engaging the diff than the old VC system, however they both work and are both effective.<p>My .02.<p>Nice find, thanks for sharing.
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

That is a very old video, almost 2 years old in fact. It was doctored by Subaru, because the person doing the tests is a Subaru rep. In fact, it is possible to disable the AWD with Visco-Systems fairly easily. That video has been around the block a few times and makes me laugh whenever I see it.<p>If you want to see a legit comparison test, check out 4Car.Co.Uk:<p><b><A HREF="http://www.4car.co.uk/special/videozone/main.jsp?pg=2&make=Subaru&model=Legacy%20Outback" TARGET="_blank">Outback vs. Cross-Country vs. Allroad</A></b><p>The Allroad and XC tied, but if they used a new XC 2.5T with Haldex, it would have came out the winner.<p>-Drew
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? ([email protected])

Thanks for the insights. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>At first, i thought that the pre-2003 XC could only send a limited amount of power to the rear wheels and thus making it impossible on a hill to push the car forward. If the front wheels spin and you only have 20% at the rear to push, there is no way something will happen. <p>Subaru will start off with a 50/50 ratio and can send almost everything to the rear wheels (with manual transmission). That could explain why the Subaru was better on that exercise. Add more weight (the trailer), and you only emphasize this theory.<p>i know the Haldex will be much better in this scenario. Maybe that's why Volvo did the switch? Most so called AWD cars/SUV are FWD in the first place. They are called "reactive" AWD and I suspect the pre-2003 XC to be exactly that. Maybe I am wrong?<p>JF<BR><BR>
[Modified by JF, 9:14 AM 12-5-2002]
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

Thanks for the link. I just watched these videos and in the one called Hill challenge, the woman in the XC swerves to the right to get grip on the grass. Never will you see the back end work and wheel spin will come only from the front. Interresting...<p>In the other videos, no hills so no need for 100% push from the rears. Only grip matters and tyre brand/type can come into play. Even a small 20% push from the rear can be sufficient on a level surface.<p>Maybe someone with a Subaru and a XC background could comment?<p>Thanks,<p>JF
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

Well, I can't download the video because my connection here stinks. When I go home I will download it but from your and George's reaction, I take it that it is a video where they show the XC70 UNDERperforming...If that's the case then let me present you with another angle.<p>When the AWD models came out, back in 1998, they [Volvo] took us out for a day of training. We went through presentations and of course a ride-'n-drive where we tested the AWD in a slalom course, etc. They also had some competitors there; a Ford Explorer, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, an Audi A6 2.8 Quattro and a Subaru Legacy Outback...We drove those through the slalom course and we saw how inferior they were under aggressive cornering.<p>Then, they had a professional crew demonstrate how "inferior" the competitors' AWD/4WD systems were in comparison to the Viscous Coupling AWD system supplied by Volvo. They had a METAL platform where the angle was variable; you started at a 5% incline, then it progressed to 10% and then to 15%. One side of the platform was coated with a non-slip and abrasive material, the other side was just bare metal. Naturally, the platform was doused with water to make it slippery. So...off the cars/trucks went (with the professional driver). First, the Ford Explorer...goes through the 5% incline fine, when it hit the 10%...done! The two wheels that were on bare and wet metal were spinning like mad,preventing the truck from going up further. Then, the Jeep comes up...same thing...5% OK but at 10% it got stuck. Then, the Subie comes...goes through the 5% fine, hits the 10% angle half way and that was it! Then the Audi comes up...5% no problem, 10% seems like no problem, at the end of it you could see that the car was slowing down and as it crossed the threshold to the 15% angle that was it! So...here comes the V70 AWD. 5% no probs, 10%..ha! Piece of cake and 15%...? No probs! Made it all the way to the top.<p>Naturally, we all felt that we had solved the world's problems! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>So, as you can see...you can find many ways to present your side very effectively.<p><br>Yannis
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Thanks for the insights. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>At first, i thought that the pre-2003 XC could only send a limited amount of power to the rear wheels and thus making it impossible on a hill to push the car forward. If the front wheels spin and you only have 20% at the rear to push, there is no way something will happen. <p>Subaru will start off with a 50/50 ratio and can send almost everything to the rear wheels (with manual transmission). That could explain why the Subaru was better on that exercise. Add more weight (the trailer), and you only emphasize this theory.<br><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Haldex is better because it is programmable, it does not have the tire limitations of the older AWD system and it is more transparent in the way it shifts ppower from Front to Rear. Plus, it only takes 1/7th of a wheel roatation for the system to engage whereas most systems take anywhere from 3/4 of a turn up to 1.5 turns.<p>The older AWD system can sent as much as 100% of the power to the rear wheels if needed...Under dry conditions, it is 95/5 front to rear.<p>Yannis
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (GrecianVolvo)

I guess no test is ever conclusive! Subaru will think their system is better, Volvo the same, etc. I guess you cannot compare cars or SUVs like that. Center of gravity will be higher for SUVs, weight will come in effect for some systems and tire types will play a major role in these kind of tests. So it's hard to tell which system is better. As a previous Subaru owner, all I can say is that Subaru put very crappy OEM tires on their cars and that doesn't help at all. Volvo on the other hand, will put much better tires. I don't know for Audi or the other manufacturers though.<p>Thanks Yannis for sharing!<p>JF
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

Could the older Volvo AWD send 100% to the back in under all conditions?
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Could the older Volvo AWD send 100% to the back in under all conditions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Yes, that's what I wrote previously.<p>Yannis
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? ([email protected])

Well, finally downloaded the videos...What a bunch of crock from the Subaru!<IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/angryfire.gif" BORDER="0"> That is a <B> <I> <U>SHAMEFUL</U> </I> </B> representation or should I call it MISrepresentation!!!<IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/cussing2.gif" BORDER="0"><p>But you know what? The truth (or most of it) came up in the comparo that Drew provided us with...so, Subaru can do...you know what...they can kiss our Volvo<IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moon.gif" BORDER="0"><p>THERE!<IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/pfbbt.gif" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/stick.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Yannis
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? ([email protected])

Volvo should request a cease and desist to the website where the video originates (www.subaru.fi). <p>I've seen a few different threads on forums (Volvo and others) where someone mentions the XC and another person posts a link to that same video. One I remember from a while ago <A HREF="http://www.bmwm5.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=bc71e5eeba34ca0d2f2c4a4aa399b6ad&threadid=10124&highlight=volvo+cross+country" TARGET="_blank">for example</A>.<p>Though everything gets cleared up in the end on that one, I'm sure there have been other posts that have led people to beleive the volvo_filmen video is an accurate representation of the XC's abilities, even if they can't understand what the guy is saying. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Considering the power of the Internet, I'm sure Volvo has lost at least a couple sales at the hand of that video alone.<br>
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (coastal)

To anyone who knows anything about VC AWD systems, it is obvious that they tinkered with the AWD system of the XC. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have the front wheels spinning (as shown) and the rear wheels to just not moove. That shows that propeller shafts inside the Viscous Coupling are damaged...or the thick fluid in thre is gone....or the bevel gear is disconnected rendering the XC a FWD car....<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>I have climbed MUCH STEEPER hills with the XC either in deeper mud than what was shown there or deep snow, close to 12"...never had a single problem. That guy is an idiot and I can't believe that Volvo did not sue them...<p>Yannis
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (GrecianVolvo)

Talking about sales, my father's friend is looking for a new car and went to a Subaru dealer. The salesman told him how inferior the Volvo system is compared to Subaru. I guess that yeah it made Volvo lose a couple of sales!<p>JF
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (JF)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Talking about sales, my father's friend is looking for a new car and went to a Subaru dealer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>See? This is what I call "inferiority complex"..rarely you will see a Volvo salesperson bashing the Subaru AWD system...let them be what they really are..."wannabes".<p>Yannis
 

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Re: Is Volvo AWD really AWD? (GrecianVolvo)

Why dont we all get some cars together and do a test? Not SS alone, but find a Subaru board. Get an outback owner and a XC70 owner together. Run some tests. Post it up. It's a damn shame that Subaru needs to dip that low to get sales. I will never buy Subaru and will advise everyone I know who may think about it not too.
 
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