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Discussion Starter #1
We hear/read all the time there are millions of people without Health Insurance coverage in the USA.<p>My question is, do we know just how many of these people <u>really</u> cannot afford it ?<p>The various reports that described the issues and numbers of the 'uninsured' fail to answer this question. They simply bemoan the fact about there being millions without Health Care and how much premiums have increased over time.<p>Do some of the uninsured simply spend their money elsewhere for example. Maybe they have an expensive car which they could replace with a less expensive one and afford Health Care Ins instead, or maybe they drink beer at $4 a glass and leave themselves without sufficient funds for Health Care Ins.<p>I have to believe in WA where cigarettes are taxed at approx $2/pack and a portion of that goes to help children have Health care that many of them are maybe part of the millions thrown out as having no Health Care.<p>Just what is the true number of people that simply cannot afford Health Care coverage ?<p>No matter, IMO Every American should have health care coverage, <u>participation should be encouraged, accessible and made affordable</u> if employed, and everyone should have basic benefits.<p>From what I read Obama's plan is to 'force' health care coverage on us by requiring employers to offer it in part or in its entirety whereas McCain does not but will provide access to affordable health care. Obama's plan most likely will create some form of Govt. bureaucracy whereas McCain's is less likely to do so. Which one of these plans will provide better overall Health Care for all Americans I ask? I'm apt to favor McCain's at this time as I just don't buy that the Govt. would do a good job nor do I like the idea of something being forced onto me.<p>Priorities should be assuming you have a job<p>1. Roof over head<br>2. Beans on the table<br>3. Health care coverage (especially if children are in the household)<br>4. Other things
 

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Re: Is it true the millions without Health Insurance can't afford it ? (barrysharp)

Barry,<p>How does McCain's wonderful plan compare with Hillary's? Because you were 100% she was the best candidate before so I'd be very interested in your point of view...<p>UKMatt
 

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Re: Is it true the millions without Health Insurance can't afford it ? (ukmatt)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>barrysharp</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Priorities should be assuming you have a job<p>1. Roof over head<br>2. Beans on the table<br>3. Health care coverage (especially if children are in the household)<br>4. Other things</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sorry but "roof over head" gets pretty salty when you factor in energy costs these days. I also see no mention of car/gas/insurance to get to that job. Clothing optional too? In short, you mean well but not realistic.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ukmatt</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Barry,<p>How does McCain's wonderful plan compare with Hillary's? Because you were 100% she was the best candidate before so I'd be very interested in your point of view...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Barry is doing some soul searching (always a good thing) because he cannot get past the fact that Hillary is not on the ticket. Face the reality, do your soul searching, but judge the candidates on the issues that matter to you.
 

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Health care is ungodly expensive unless you are getting it through an employer.<p>Hillary care, while offering good coverage, but IT was very expensive. It would have been some of the most aggressive spending to-date in the country and been a huge burden on the budget.
 

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Re: (AbsolutZer0)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AbsolutZer0</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Health care is ungodly expensive unless you are getting it through an employer.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's because the government doesn't want private insurance to succeed. <p>And God help you if you do have private insurance, and you finally meet the very high deductible, they raise your rates and the deductible. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/mad.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>But when looking at the people that don't have insurance, remember that that # includes illegals as well as those that CHOOSE not to have insurance, that could afford it.<br>
 

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Re: (momscar)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>momscar</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>That's because the government doesn't want private insurance to succeed. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Can you explain your thinking on this?<p>UKMatt
 

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Re: (ukmatt)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ukmatt</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Can you explain your thinking on this?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>x2<p>Are you telling us that the private insurers are not dictating their premiums and coverage to the subscribers? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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socialist-style healthcare drives away good doctors too. Because of the fact that the federal govt dictates what sort of premiums are necessary, it trickles down and empties the pockets of doctors. Now, there are plenty of good doctors that dont get paid alot, but lets be honest here, not every doctor went to medical school for the greater good.....
 

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Re: (AbsolutZer0)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AbsolutZer0</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">socialist-style healthcare drives away good doctors too. Because of the fact that the federal govt dictates what sort of premiums are necessary, it trickles down and empties the pockets of doctors. Now, there are plenty of good doctors that dont get paid alot, but lets be honest here, not every doctor went to medical school for the greater good.....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The gov't absolutely wants private insurance to prosper...And grow. Less burden on the gov't. That's why you're allowed to pre-tax certain insurance premiums.<p>Now I work in insurance and I do believe a basic plan for everyone is needed. Those of us who want and can afford to "buy up" to better coverage will be able to do so. So doctors will still be able to charge their premiums.<br>Decent healthcare should not be optional in today's World.
 

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Re: (AbsolutZer0)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AbsolutZer0</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">socialist-style healthcare drives away good doctors too. Because of the fact that the federal govt dictates what sort of premiums are necessary, it trickles down and empties the pockets of doctors. Now, there are plenty of good doctors that dont get paid alot, but lets be honest here, not every doctor went to medical school for the greater good.....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Nice soundbite but I don't think it holds a lot of water.<p>Under our wonderful system currently in use the insurers hold the purse strings, not the doctors.<p>And let's not be silly about what universal healthcare means for those who can afford private insurance - you can still buy your private insurance and that will still pay for doctors and specialists... providing basic healthcare to the poor does not change that.<p>UKMatt<p>
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Is it true the millions without Health Insurance can't afford it ? (ukmatt)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ukmatt</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Barry,<p>How does McCain's wonderful plan compare with Hillary's? Because you were 100% she was the best candidate before so I'd be very interested in your point of view...<p>UKMatt</TD></TR></TABLE><p>1) Will Hillary have any influence on Obama's Health Plan ?<br>2) Is Obama embracing Hillary's Health Plan today or is there any chance he might later on ?<p>I've not read or heard anything on the above. Have you?<p>It's a fair question you ask ukmatt. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"><p>I've been researching as much as I can (time permitting) the plans offered by Obama and McCain and find myself not liking the Govt. involvement nor the Govt. bureaucracy that seems to go hand-in-hand with the Obama plan.<p>For example<p><A HREF="http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13136" TARGET="_blank">http://www.spectator.org/dsp_a...13136</A> that favors McCain's plan and ends with<p>"McCain's embrace of drug reimportation serves as a reminder that his is an adulterated variety of conservatism that will continue to irritate ideological purists. However, purity isn't one of our choices this year. The actual candidates we will find on the ballot when we go into the voting booth will be John McCain -- a conservative given to occasional bouts of heresy -- and Barack Obama -- a classic nanny-state liberal. On health care, as well as a variety of other issues, a President McCain will be something of an irritant. A President Obama, by contrast, would be an unmitigated disaster."<p>Then there's<p><A HREF="http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare" TARGET="_blank">http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare</A>/<p>This indicates Employers will be forced to contribute to employees health care coverage. Small busineses will get some form of tax credit to help them out with providing coverage for their employees.<p>I like the portability of Health care coverage provided by both Obama and McCain's plans.<p>See <A HREF="http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.johnmccain.com/Info...f.htm</A><p>Of course, anyone can write lines on a wall - but will they walk the talk and will they be able to execute and implement what they have published they stand for.<p><br>
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: (AbsolutZer0)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AbsolutZer0</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Health care is ungodly expensive unless you are getting it through an employer.<p>Hillary care, while offering good coverage, but IT was very expensive. It would have been some of the most aggressive spending to-date in the country and been a huge burden on the budget.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I really don't understand why the cost for Health Care via an Employer should not be same as for a person doing it themselves thru a 'Group' plan.<p>My employer Boeing negotiates with the providers on what are reasonable charges and then providers charge that. A 'Group' coverage surely has the same negotiating rights and can do the same as Boeing does for example.<p>Here's a recent example of what Boeing does for me<p>Laboratory charge billed $30, Allowed thru negotiation $3, Patient Responsibility $0, Amount Paid $3<br>Laboratory charge billed $46, Allowed thru negotiation $8.93, Patient Responsibility $0, Amount Paid $8.93<p><br>Boeing provides coverage for some 100,000 emplyees. A 'Group' can also cover large numbers of people.<p>Soooooooooo, why should non-employer coverage cost more I ask ?
 

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Re: (flybynight)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>flybynight</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p><br>Now I work in insurance and I do believe a basic plan for everyone is needed. Those of us who want and can afford to "buy up" to better coverage will be able to do so. So doctors will still be able to charge their premiums.<br>Decent healthcare should not be optional in today's World. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I agree 100% I'm fortunate to have a great healthcare plan from my employer....I think I paid $40 for health, vision, and dental last month...so far, $7.75 has been taken out this month!<p><br>
 

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Re: (momscar)

I see it as one more source of power of the government. <p>Think about it, how can the government provide better healthcare than private organizations?? The government hasn't done very good with Social Security. What makes you think that healthcare will be done any better.<p>Do you really want the government to have control of your health(care)??
 

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Nationalized health care, as far as I follow, isn't designed to de-privatize the insurance industry, but rather create an additional national insurance plan for the currently uninsured, it would be affordible due to the fact that taxpayer dollars would be pumped into it to keep premiums low for those in the plans...<p>My issue with this is simple. I am on a high-deductible, low-cost plan through my work. I dont want to see a tax hike to make sure that the homeless guy outside that peddles for change every day doesnt get pneumonia... If they want me to start donating money to national healthcare, id be a little angry. If I am going to have to pay more, I would prefer it goes to my OWN plan and gets me into a lower-deductible plan!
 

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Re: (momscar)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>momscar</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I<br>Think about it, how can the government provide better healthcare than private organizations?? The government hasn't done very good with Social Security. What makes you think that healthcare will be done any better.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>We already have too many people who only think about receiving Social Security for retirement...and don't choose to save for themselves.<p>That's the inconvenient truth, SS is a mess, chances are they'd find a way to screw up peoples' healthcare program too.
 

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Re: (momscar)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>momscar</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see it as one more source of power of the government. <p>Think about it, how can the government provide better healthcare than private organizations?? The government hasn't done very good with Social Security. What makes you think that healthcare will be done any better.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Let's be very clear here - the government can provide INFINITELY better healthcare for those who have no access to decent healthcare today.<p>This came up recently - comparing your privately funded plan with the care that the government might offer is a futile exercise. As far as I know, not one proponent of universal healthcare is saying that private individuals should not be allowed to purchase their own healthcare should they so choose.<p>UKMatt
 

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Re: (AbsolutZer0)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AbsolutZer0</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nationalized health care, as far as I follow, isn't designed to de-privatize the insurance industry, but rather create an additional national insurance plan for the currently uninsured, it would be affordible due to the fact that taxpayer dollars would be pumped into it to keep premiums low for those in the plans...<p>My issue with this is simple. I am on a high-deductible, low-cost plan through my work. I dont want to see a tax hike to make sure that the homeless guy outside that peddles for change every day doesnt get pneumonia... If they want me to start donating money to national healthcare, id be a little angry. If I am going to have to pay more, I would prefer it goes to my OWN plan and gets me into a lower-deductible plan!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Wow - selfish much? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"><br> <br>UKMatt
 

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Re: (ukmatt)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ukmatt</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Let's be very clear here - the government can provide INFINITELY better healthcare for those who have no access to decent healthcare today.<p>This came up recently - comparing your privately funded plan with the care that the government might offer is a futile exercise. As far as I know, not one proponent of universal healthcare is saying that private individuals should not be allowed to purchase their own healthcare should they so choose.<p>UKMatt</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I dont think thats the issue here. Most people were against HillaryCare and ObamaCare because of the cost involved in them. And please dont say "Well iraq costs a gazillion" because im sick of people using current spending as a scapegoat to avoid the fact that nationalized health care has been proven to be too damned expensive for taxpayers on any level.
 

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Re: (ukmatt)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ukmatt</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Wow - selfish much? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"><br> <br>UKMatt</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah I am. Im jaded. There are people that could use it, like children with wasted space parents, and the mentally disabled, but the majority of the people that would use it would be taking advantage of having a taxpayer funded plan, bringing their overall costs down because the demographic that the plans are targeted toward pay dick in taxes.
 
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