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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wanted to share that iPd has new XC90 HD control arms which are conveniently priced between Meyle and original Volvo. I think these are similarly priced to when Lemforder used to offer entire control arms a few years ago.

Their justification as HD is that the rubber is of better quality than Volvo. Volvo uses high quality recycled rubber to meet a "green" spec and iPd's claim is this leads to the wear or failure over time. iPd does not claim any design differences or harder rubber, just high quality rubber. I wonder if this will actually equate to lasting longer than original Volvo control arm bushings. I have heard iPd's HD sway bar end links can fail like original or Lemforder ones and that their HD spring seats can still fail like other OEMs.

I do like what iPd is trying to do and I run some of their products in my own XC90. So, at the very least it is good to see development for the XC90. Personally, if I was going to purchase whole control arms, I probably would buy the original Volvo arms from FCP because of the lifetime warranty.

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/215...FWgxROn-hGU81sRIju8qifP8lEnpnruBoCdV0QAvD_BwE
 

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I'm going to remain skeptical, but would love to be wrong. IPD's other HD parts didn't really pan out to be HD. I've got loads of IPD stuff on my older Volvos (camshafts, sway bars, some poly stuff), so I've nothing against IPD.

I'm still aiming for Powerflex poly, but I'm hesitant to give up any ride comfort.

-Ryan
 

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98 S70 Base, 06 S40 T5 M66 FWD, 08 C70 M66, 11 XC90 V8, 13 C70 P*
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I’ve been thinking about these the past couple of days, since the ipd email hit my inbox a little while ago. I agree with you and will probably just go with FCP — as much as I hate spending more for the whole LCAs, it’s a matter of limited time/access to a shop press for me.

I assume my suspension hasn’t been touched since new (had ~ 135k when I bought it last year without a full PPI, now coming up on 147k and really have had no major issues so far). I noticed on the highway when I hit a bump the whole vehicle “floats” a bit; I also assume that’s a sign of worn bushings?

BD


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When we need them I will either buy the Volvo arms from Tasca and have the local dealer install them so I get Volvo's lifetime parts and labor warranty, or if I am ambitious and willing to do an control arm install again buy the IPD and do them myself and see how they last.
 

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I was surprised to see that my control arms still look good at 140K on the 2011 XC90.

Instead of LCA's, I bought sway bars for one of the 240's.... :)

-Ryan
 

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I have 2 very low mileage full sets of their HD end links in my garage since last year, happy to give them a new home if someone local wants to PM me.

I'm guessing the HD LCAs will work great for a while. 100k plus like with OE? We'll see...
 

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Just wanted to share that iPd has new XC90 HD control arms which are conveniently priced between Meyle and original Volvo. I think these are similarly priced to when Lemforder used to offer entire control arms a few years ago.

Their justification as HD is that the rubber is of better quality than Volvo. Volvo uses high quality recycled rubber to meet a "green" spec and iPd's claim is this leads to the wear or failure over time. iPd does not claim any design differences or harder rubber, just high quality rubber.
When this ad hit my in-box, I challenged IPD to provide proof of their claim (IPD "high quality rubber" vs Volvo "recycled high quality rubber") ...

They couldn't.
 

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When this ad hit my in-box, I challenged IPD to provide proof of their claim (IPD "high quality rubber" vs Volvo "recycled high quality rubber") ...

They couldn't.
I wrote iPD asking them to convince me that they would be a worthwhile upgrade, with any kind of data or reviews. The only points made were that their rubber is better, that MeyleHD uses more (but inferior) rubber, and that the iPD control arms should last as long or longer than Genuine Volvo. Additionally, they said that their control arms for other Volvo models are well-received, which is like comparing apples to bowling balls, in my view.
I had original Volvo bushings on my 90k '09 XC90 that were in OK condition, so I replaced them with MeyleHD bushings before new tires and alignment. Big mistake. The steering felt soft and "floaty", and there was then a brake pull to the left. I had done no brake work along with the other surgery, nor cracked the lines, so I hung a GoPro under the car and drove around the block. Literally around the block. The left MeyleHD bushing deflected a lot farther than the right, and certainly way more than it should, especially in consideration of the effect that has on toe-in and tire wear. Fortunately, I bought them from FCP and was able to return them for Lemforders. What I would like to do is video the Lemforders and then install iPD's and video those.
I suppose that polyurethane would be the way to go for stiffer handling, but the downside, as I hear, is increased road noise. Not to mention the crazy price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I suppose that polyurethane would be the way to go for stiffer handling, but the downside, as I hear, is increased road noise. Not to mention the crazy price.
You don't get more road noise with the forward polyurethane bushings and that is from my personal real-world experience. The poly durometer for the street is also not as hard as people are assuming. The two biggest improvements for handling and longevity are the bushings are solid, removing the cut-outs where flex happens and that the LCAs pivot rather than twist the bushings, making it more precise and predictable.

One way to describe the benefits of the polyurethane solid design is if you are turning and have to go over bumps and potholes. The original rubber design will deflect, and you will have to correct the steering. The polyurethane stays inline and rolls over the bumps, allowing the struts/springs to do the work as intended.

I am more than happy that I installed them on my XC90 (happier that I got them on winter sale plus a discount code, shh).
 

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You don't get more road noise with the forward polyurethane bushings and that is from my personal real-world experience. The poly durometer for the street is also not as hard as people are assuming. The two biggest improvements for handling and longevity are the bushings are solid, removing the cut-outs where flex happens and that the LCAs pivot rather than twist the bushings, making it more precise and predictable.

One way to describe the benefits of the polyurethane solid design is if you are turning and have to go over bumps and potholes. The original rubber design will deflect, and you will have to correct the steering. The polyurethane stays inline and rolls over the bumps, allowing the struts/springs to do the work as intended.

I am more than happy that I installed them on my XC90 (happier that I got them on winter sale plus a discount code, shh).
The IPD (made in Taiwan) control arm bushing are made from "new rubber", not polyurethane ...
 

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From his signature I assume he's talking about the Powerflex poly control arm bushings, not the iPd ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The IPD (made in Taiwan) control arm bushing are made from "new rubber", not polyurethane ...
The poster Capndirk made a comment that instead of using either of the rubber options, the polyurethane could be an option and made a note that poly is noisier, which it is not. When going over the benefits and risks of the choices, including the iPd HD arms, polys are still a good option.

I am the OP of this thread and commented about the rubber nature of the iPd control arms within the very first post.
 

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Hey guys- I got together with my product team and we put together a small write up regarding these control arms. I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

What is better rubber?

One of the subjects that generates the most confusion regarding suspension products is the topic of rubber. The kerfluffle comes from the fact that most people do not understand what recycled rubber really is and why it is a poor application in suspension. The truth is that rubber does not actually recycle like glass or other substances. It does not “melt” and get reformed into new strands of material in the second life of the material. Instead rubber is ground up into filler which is mixed into new rubber to act as a filler with some, but not all, of the properties of new rubber.

Since the recycled filler rubber does not bond with the new rubber it is instead captured in the mix. So it does maintain much of its compression and recovery aspects, but it does not have the same response as new rubber in stretch and recovery since it is not bonded. Even more importantly to this topic is that the lack of bonds make a virtually infinite number of places for separations to begin and propagate.

The fact that the inert filler has already lost much of its recovery properties before being re-purposed means that the new rubber mixture will lose elasticity and recovery even faster than new rubber. These factors are not very important when purposed for something like the tread on a hiking sandal, but they are very important when used in applications like the bushings in these control arms. The ability to stretch predictably and recover to the original position is the primary function of the bushings in a suspension design like this. Older style suspensions operated mostly in two planes but that is no longer the case in modern cars.

We figured this out several years ago and set about manufacturing our own control arms for the P2 cars. These cars in general were suffering a very high failure rate of OE control arms and an even higher rate of failure on low cost aftermarket examples (since they contain even more recycled rubber). Since we sell OE, upgrade and aftermarket parts we actually know which ones get warranty complaints more often and are not operating on secondhand information or hearsay.

We worked with an analysis lab here in the U.S. that compared the Volvo OE and a few aftermarket versions and what led to those failures. We were advised to utilize a compound that relies less on recycled materials.

So what is better rubber? In this case it is rubber that has more ability to stretch and recover without developing separations and faults for a longer period of time. And we need to do this without the loss in ride quality associated with some other materials. It’s not rocket science. It’s just our response to the fact rubber performance is going down at the same time the chassis engineers are asking the performance to go up. Is this a perfect bushing that will never fail? Certainly not, but it is an improvement on the options we have seen so far. Try them out, you may be surprised.

If you have any questions, you can email [email protected] or myself at [email protected]. We will do our best to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello [email protected],

I apologize, but as a loyal customer, my opinion is this was basically the same info in your informational marketing. The real question is how it performs in the real world or head-to-head. I don't know where you source the new rubber, how the bushings are manufactured (and the QC), nor have we seen your lab analysis.

I strive to give real world results and data in my posts, not just the marketing info.

Believe us when we say we know about the control arm bushings wearing out, especially with the heaviest vehicle in the Volvo P2 fleet. The biggest deciding factor when personally talking to different XC90 owners is how the consistency and longevity play into the price point. We just don't have the real world information or data to make an informed decision on choosing the IPD control arms. However, when it comes to original Volvo, we know how long they can last without issue.

Why haven't you chosen to try solid rubber bushings or improving the overall design of the bushing and not just the rubber? I've used solid rubber bushing replacements in European cars, where the original ones had cutouts, with great results.
 

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Well, it's a good story and the price is right. If I hadn't just replaced mine, I'd be willing to give it a go.

I was surprised to see that my control arms still look good at 140K on the 2011 XC90.
Looks can be deceiving... Peek under the car while someone rocks the wheel left and right and see how much the ball joint moves around.
 

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Hello [email protected],

I apologize, but as a loyal customer, my opinion is this was basically the same info in your informational marketing. The real question is how it performs in the real world or head-to-head. I don't know where you source the new rubber, how the bushings are manufactured (and the QC), nor have we seen your lab analysis.

I strive to give real world results and data in my posts, not just the marketing info.

Believe us when we say we know about the control arm bushings wearing out, especially with the heaviest vehicle in the Volvo P2 fleet. The biggest deciding factor when personally talking to different XC90 owners is how the consistency and longevity play into the price point. We just don't have the real world information or data to make an informed decision on choosing the IPD control arms. However, when it comes to original Volvo, we know how long they can last without issue.

Why haven't you chosen to try solid rubber bushings or improving the overall design of the bushing and not just the rubber? I've used solid rubber bushing replacements in European cars, where the original ones had cutouts, with great results.
We source our control arms from a manufacture who supplies Lemforder, ZF, and TRW. We've been working with them for over 15 years making all sorts of rubber and cast components. We worked with a lab to test the durometer in each bushing from various competitors. In reference to the P2 non XC90, we worked for many years developing a new control arm. Then Meyle introduced their HD versions. At that time we didn't know creating a harder bushing or more material wasn't the correct answer. We shelved our project and waited to see how Meyle worked out.

We work with many independent service centers around the county. The feedback was they failed just as often as other aftermarket versions, but had an attractive warranty.

We tried poly bushings in our own cars. The problem is securing the poly "vulcanizing" to the actual control arm itself. There really isn't a way to secure the bushing in the control arm so they will stay. We also had issues with the sleeve tearing out the harder material. We noticed the material being beat to death! The deflection that occurs in the rear of the control arm is massive and can crush the material.

We worked with a lab who tested the rubber durometer and deflection. We were advised that using better material would be the best course of action and to not go with more material, just better material.

The voids in the factory bushings are engineered on purpose to help facilitate movement in the correct axis. It also allows a more controlled "bump steer" response under braking. Without the voids, steering control will be decreased under braking loads due to severe deflection and wheel hop. If you look at the way the suspension moves, the voids are specific to allow movement in the direction of your struts "up and down" and dampen or resist movement on the other axis.

We went back to our manufacture and moved forward making control arms for the P2 chassis specifying a higher quality compound. Fact is, we don't claim that these last forever. This is in fact a wear component. No rubber lasts forever. We have had great results with our distributors and shops installing our P2 control arms for S60/V70 applications. We've made them for XC70 models and had great success with little issues.

Our goal is to provide something better than what is being offered in the aftermarket. We feel we've priced them accordingly.

These products have taken many years to develop and many resources. We don't give away trade secrets about our development. When there is a claim to be made, we will make it. I can't tell you how many miles these will last or an exact number you will get out of them. This all depends on road conditions and how the person drives. All in all our control arms have done fantastic against others offered in the aftermarket.

ipd has been in business for over 55 years doing our best to develop quality products and solutions. We're not in business providing fake news or to cheat people into a product that won't work.

There are many options out there. We did our best to produce an affordable unit that will last longer.

I appreciate all the questions. it's nice to see so many people this enthusiastic over their XC90.

Thank you for your contribution to the Volvo community.

Have a great day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Again, real world results may be different than what has been calculated or theory. You even talked about it with the harder durometer and expectations were different than real world results. I do use forward polyurethane and factory rear bushings and have great results. Using the factory rearward bushing solves the poly issues you mentioned. Some of the deflection you are talking about is work transferred to the tires and we have different types of tires, sizes, and sidewall heights compared to an S60. The difficulty for XC90 owners are the considerations in angles, load, weight transfer, energy transfer, even center of gravity, etc. are all developed for the S60. That is why purely real world XC90 data is important. We can debate for ages whoever advises you on using different rubber versus changing some of the design, but that's not what's important here.

This thread was really coming from XC90 enthusiasts and we can talk about the information you have already supplied, we don't need more marketing or theory. We want real world results and that is why the thread is titled who will try it first so feedback can be shared amongst the XC90 group.

IPD, you don't have to prove your history to the Volvo community. We commend the effort to bring the XC90 options, but as a customer and consumer, we ultimately want results. You positioned your marketing information as a better than factory alternative. However, here you are saying it is an OEM alternative, it is conflicting marketing positioning.

I'm sure someone will try your arms one day and can give long-term results. That may take time. Please allow enthusiasts to talk about your arms until we can get the real world results. That is why forums like this exist.
 

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The crux of the argument is that in lieu of facts from the manufacturer (arguably FEA and testing data), the community needs to generate its own data.

Everyone here has been burned by "HD" products from a number of manufacturers.

-Ryan
 

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So we all have a point of reference, are the "HD" LCA being tested by IPD for longevity and performance on one or more XC90s today? If yes, which variant(s) of the XC90, for how long and for how many miles?
 
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