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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
intermittent clattering noise from head of block with rough running

V8 2005, 36k miles.<p>I heard a weird rattling noise, sounding like metal on metal, coming from the engine bay. A bit like a loose chain rattling against a cog combined with the sound that a coin makes when it is in the dryer with the laundry. The noise is intermittent and frequency is directly related to engine speed, not road speed. Under the hood with a hose pipe 'stethoscope', it sounds like it is coming from under the plastic cover that mates with the top of the block. I don't have an exploded view diagram for Yamaha's V8, but if I remember correctly, this engine has timing chains, not belts. My guess is that as it runs very slightly rough with vibration when afflicted, it may be a partially broken link in a timing chain ? Or maybe a bad bit of valve gear ?<p>No red or yellow triangles on instrument panel so far. I guess I'll have to take it in to dealership on Monday to find out what's up.<p>Anyone got ideas or previous similar experience ?<p>Thanks !<p><br><i>Modified by safetyfirst at 9:37 AM 8-10-2009</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by safetyfirst at 10:06 AM 8-10-2009</i>
 

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Re: intermittent clattering noise from head of block with rough running (safetyfirst)

sorry , cannot help you -but could you post when you find out what it is, I have same model year w/ same engine...<p>thanks<br>you can take plastic cover by pulling it straight up<br>
 

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have your dealer check the bearing pressed into the front of the block, that is what failed and took out my entire engine. Mine started making this noise and then started to squeal and then seized and i suffered catastrophic engine failure.
 

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Re: (Morgan-tec)

I thought the V8 (and transmission) has a stellar reliability record ??<br>Can you give any more details? How did the new engine replacement go ?<br>Warranty or cost ? What oil where you using and what oil change interval ?<br>
 

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Re: (cdnx90)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>cdnx90</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought the V8 (and transmission) has a stellar reliability record ??<br>Can you give any more details? How did the new engine replacement go ?<br>Warranty or cost ? What oil where you using and what oil change interval ?<br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Any "stellar reliability" device still can have problems with an engine. Remember they<br>are just machines, and no machine is perfect. Now if there are multiple of the same type<br>of problem, then there is something to look at. A single, or a few failures is not a trend.<p>
 

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Re: intermittent clattering noise from head of block with rough running (safetyfirst)

<p>At the first sign of the sound I hope you shut the engine off and had it towed. Running an<br>engine making this sort of sound just adds more to the repair cost.<p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: intermittent clattering noise from head of block with rough running (dmd)

I agree that continuing to run the motor is unwise. However, when you've got seven up and you're on the I-5 'parking lot' going to a baseball game, it's hard to justify shutting it down, scrubbing the game and calling AAA. Maybe if I didn't have extended warranty I would have been more conservative. I'm just limping around for now keeping the load and revs low. If the noise changes for the worse then I'd probably shut it down as you suggest.<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by safetyfirst at 6:42 PM 8-10-2009</i>
 

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i have had the dealer doing my oil every 5k with whatever they use. As for the replacment, thank god i bought the extended warrenty, it only cost me $2k intstead of the $15k bill. I have heard of 5 of the exact same problem on the v8 xc90 now so it seems to be a longevity thing. Mine went at 85k and the others i have heard of were 90k and over in milage. Volvo tried to tell me that me xc90 v8 was the first in the us to experiance internal engine trouble on the v8.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: (Morgan-tec)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Morgan-tec</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have had the dealer doing my oil every 5k with whatever they use. As for the replacment, thank god i bought the extended warrenty, it only cost me $2k intstead of the $15k bill. I have heard of 5 of the exact same problem on the v8 xc90 now so it seems to be a longevity thing. Mine went at 85k and the others i have heard of were 90k and over in milage. Volvo tried to tell me that me xc90 v8 was the first in the us to experiance internal engine trouble on the v8.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Do you know what caused the failure of your previous engine ? <p>How did you find out about the 5 other failures of the Yamaha 4.4L V8 ? <p>Did they also fail in the same manner ?<p>I hope this is not a cam sprocket issue like the SHO engines experienced..... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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if i remember correctly it is a shaft that is connected to the cam sprockets, so when mine siezed it took out the came, heads, pistons, in that order. The other failures are from word of mouth in my area and none of them went to the extreme level of mine, they all just had the bearing replaced before it took out the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: (Morgan-tec)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Morgan-tec</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have your dealer check the bearing pressed into the front of the block, that is what failed and took out my entire engine. Mine started making this noise and then started to squeal and then seized and i suffered catastrophic engine failure.</TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>Hmmm, what you describe sounds like a counterbalance shaft ? Does that ring any bells ? In the diagram linked below, I think this is the cut-away shaft with the small toothed cog with the chain looping around it directly above the crankshaft bearing, no ? <p><A HREF="http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/12/14/303081.1-lg.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.theautochannel.com/...g.jpg</A><p>The master mechanic at the dealership says he can hear something's wrong but can't get to it until tomorrow.
 

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Thats it, the bearing on the counterbalance shaft, that is what failed. It is an internally lubricated part so it was covered under my extended warrenty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: (Morgan-tec)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Morgan-tec</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats it, the bearing on the counterbalance shaft, that is what failed. It is an internally lubricated part so it was covered under my extended warrenty.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Wow. If this has failed on our engine, I only hope I caught it early enough so the bearing(s) can be replaced and the engine saved. I guess if there's significant additional damage then they would have to replace the whole engine ? ! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I got a call from dealership late this afternoon advising me that they will pull one head off tomorrow afternoon and peek inside. Cost to do so, then reassemble if they find nothing is wrong is $2,500 (Labor is currently $140 per hour and likely to increase to $158 per hour in fall...) However, service manager says that as it is most likely an internal mechanical part that is covered under extended warranty, the insurance agent will have to come and inspect, and give OK to fix whatever it turns out to be under extended warranty claim.<p>Three months out of 4yr warranty period and now into the 7yr 100k extended-warranty period....<p><br><i>Modified by safetyfirst at 10:36 AM 8-12-2009</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by safetyfirst at 10:36 AM 8-12-2009</i>
 

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Re: (safetyfirst)

Why did you have to pay $2000 ? What wasn't covered by the warranty?<p>Sounds a bit more like a trend here and not just a one off failure. Especially when it could be related to the same SHO problem.<p>Whats some of the highest mileages people have on their V8's ? I've got the 160k km (100K mile) warranty too, but tend to keep vehicles a long time and have put 300 and 400K kms on 2 5cyl Volvos. I was hoping to get even more out of the V8 that spends a lot of its (legal speed) mileage just putting around at 2000rpm or less. <p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: (cdnx90)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>cdnx90</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why did you have to pay $2000 ? What wasn't covered by the warranty?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>This is for Morgan-tec to address. Maybe he or she meant to type '$200' and added an extra '0' ?<p>We haven't had to pay anything (yet). If it is an internal part that is bad (note - the Dealership has not yet verified what is wrong) and it is covered under warranty, then we would be responsible for our deductible ($200), plus any expenses for the rental car beyond the $30 per day for 6 day max that the extended warranty provides.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>cdnx90</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds a bit more like a trend here and not just a one off failure. Especially when it could be related to the same SHO problem.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>In fairness, IMHO, an 'n' of 2 may not justify a 'trend'. I'll reserve judgment until after the exploratory surgery. I don't want to get embroiled in the old Ford Taurus SHO Yamaha V8 issue. <p><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_SHO_V8_engine" TARGET="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_SHO_V8_engine</A><p>The above states the cause of failure on these engines was a design flaw where the cam sprockets were swaged onto the end of hollow cam shaft using a ball on the end of the shaft with a slightly undersized hole on the sprocket. When the union failed, the sprocket could rotate independently of the camshaft and being a interrupting design of engine (unlike my dearly departed Fiat 2000 spider), it was clang of valves with piston heads etc, then kaboom.<p>If (we don't know yet) the engine in our car has the same failure as that in Morgan-tec's, then that would be at least two engines with the same issue - bad bearings in the counterbalance shaft. While related to a camshaft, this is a possibly a different issue and perhaps the initial failure was a bad bearing ? Alternatively, the bearing may not have been bad, but perhaps it is susceptible to corrosion due to engine design, e.g. accumulation of surface water kicked up into engine bay when engine is cold after a short trip (hence it doesn't evaporate). Note - I don't know how the sprocket for the counterbalance shaft on the 4.4L V8 is attached. From the diagram it looks like a big hex nut and not swaging. I guess the issue of what is wrong will become clearer after 'surgery'. Until this information is known, it's just speculation.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>cdnx90</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whats some of the highest mileages people have on their V8's ? I've got the 160k km (100K mile) warranty too, but tend to keep vehicles a long time and have put 300 and 400K kms on 2 5cyl Volvos. I was hoping to get even more out of the V8 that spends a lot of its (legal speed) mileage just putting around at 2000rpm or less. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Maybe it is an issue of chronological age of engine rather than mileage ?<p>I'll post more info as it becomes available.
 

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I paid $2k for my extended warrenty, that what i ment by saying the engine only cost me 2k. As for the actual out of pocket cost was around $800, a $100 deductable, and two O2 sensors that were taken out when the engine blew. Again i have knowledge of 5 more of this same bearing failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: intermittent clattering noise from head of block with rough running (safetyfirst)

Well, the service manager just called me to give me the results of the exploratory surgery. Actually, it's probably more accurate to say "autopsy".... we need a new engine.<p>The bearing supporting the counterbalance (CB) shaft at the "rear" of the block (the right hand side of the block as you look at the engine from the front of the car) failed. Apparently all the ball bearings had escaped from the race. The continued spinning of the shaft (driven by the sprocket on the "front" (left side) of the block caused the bearing to spin and this cut into the block itself. In addition, the nut holding the sprocket and CB shaft in place at the left hand end had backed off (probably due to Newton's third law) and had cut into the cover at that end.<p>Apparently Volvo doesn't have short blocks for this motor, so a whole new engine is required.<p>Mr or Ms. Insurance Inspector will be called to review the wondrous sight, then I guess we will have to wait to see how long it will take to get new block. Morgan-tec - how long did it take you to get back up and running ? Did they have to ship engine from Sweden or do they have some in US ?<p>All of a sudden $2000 for extended warranty is looking good.<p>Whew.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: (Morgan-tec)

So the engine was shipped form California to CO and your local dealer installed it ?
 

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Re: intermittent clattering noise from head of block with rough running (safetyfirst)

Congrats and enjoy a new motor breakin...<br>at least thats how I'd feel about getting a new motor in a 3yr old vehicle. Otherwise I'd be getting rid of it before any schrapnel left over takes out more parts down the road. <br>I think that my extended warranty in Canada covers the rental for the entire period the vehicle is in the shop though.
 
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